I now say it is a word. Who is going to stop me?
Other literate individuals, at every single turn. Unremorsefully. |
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I now say it is a word. Who is going to stop me?
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Heh, I thought we were having a discussion here. I am sorry but I am not one of your girls. I don't help your self-esteem for free.
You help people's self esteem for a fee then? Value isn't just money. A fee doesn't have to be just money either. You help people's self esteem for a fee? I think what you meant to say was: "I don't help people's self esteem unless I get something out of it." Unremorsefully. |
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Heh, I thought we were having a discussion here. I am sorry but I am not one of your girls. I don't help your self-esteem for free.
You help people's self esteem for a fee then? Value isn't just money. |
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Honestly, you did a very poor job at describing me. Try again for double or nothing.
Heh, I thought we were having a discussion here. I am sorry but I am not one of your girls. I don't help your self-esteem for free. |
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I don't feel like feeding myself nor fetching water. Heck, I even wear a diaper that needs to be changed. I am going to die of dehydration and in an adult diaper full of shit glued to my ass unless somebody pays for my survival. You don't feel like helping me nor can you afford to care for me. Oh but luckily you're so compassionate that you'll force other people to care for me. You take your team of buddies with guns to extort funds from your neighbors so I can get my ass wiped, watered and fed.
Is this moral? If not, what should of been done that doesn't require force?
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By the way...choice vs. "slavery" is a false dichotomy
Sure, Mr. Joint. To you there is probably no such thing as choice because you bend over every time something wants to fuck you over and you call it "sacrifice". "I want to do this! I like it up the butt and so should you!" In the end, it's a matter of individual perception. To me freedom is retaining my will to value what I choose. I accept what I can't change. |
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"You're no individual. You're a shell; a means to an end. Feel free to be as such but you won't force me to play your game.
Heh and you define utilitarian resources such as energy as what makes life. You make me sick"
I'm happy. Are you?
The cashier at the 7-11 always asked me that. I would sometimes be depressed as hell, with a migraine and the thought of suicide entering from every lobe. Despite all this I would always answer "I'm excellent. Always excellent." This wasn't to be courteous or not to be a burden -- it's genuine. I am always happy. I am always excellent. Nothing limits me nor my happiness for as long as I perceive; I take pleasure in it for I accept it as it is. Anyways does it even matter? Why is my happiness so relevant to yours? You're a clingy one, aren't you? Oh I bet the women love you calling them at all hours of the day. "We're one, Sarah! There's no such thing as an individual! You and me forever!" "Personal space? Belongings! That's selfish!" Heh. |
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...and life as we perceive is not a zero-sum game because our value is not limited to bare resources. Wealth can be created through what we perceive as innovation and more efficient consumption.
I mean, goddamn it, we have barely made the planet unlivable as it is. There are plenty of resources left to grasp and we still have the rest of the universe. There is no need to sacrifice. We're not all in poverty. The median wealth has raised for everybody over the past few centuries. The fact is wealth has been and will continue to be created.
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Take the mathematical proof for a boundary of a boundary = zero, then add to that the concept of syndiffeonesis which essentially states that any 2 relands x and y are always embedded within a common syntax and so all relationships are syndiffeonic relationships, and you will see that the concept of an "individual" is really not that simple. In fact, these two concepts alone are enough to throw anyone's idea of "self identity" for a loop.
Then, there is the idea of pride. Pride is an extremely dangerous concept, especially when that pride is linked to some endowed characteristic such as your ethnic or cultural heritage. If you are proud of what your forefathers or your ancestors did, don't be. You didn't do a goddamn thing and there is no reason you should be proud of something you didn't do. The idea of pride is one of the root causes of the self-vs-other paradigm which leads to things like nationalism and racism (the two are not mutually exclusive).
Having pride in something you DID do is a different issue, but it is still a touchy subject. Can a person truly act alone to commit an act that he/she can be proud of? Or is one's ability to act itself a result of interdependence? I would argue for the latter.
Sacrifice is beautiful because it mitigates the ego. When you are focused on someone else, you become selfless and compassionate. As you are part of an interdependent system, acting selflessly and compassionately indirectly helps you. Nature is about give and take and balance. The thermodynamic law stating that energy cannot be created nor destroyed suggests a "zero sum game" as you put it. If you look at nature, you will learn all you need to know about how to live. Animals and plants take, and animals and plants give. If you are unhappy with the current state of the world, maybe you need to sacrifice MORE, not less. Those who take and take from nature will not be given the same amount in return.
Edit: OP, being a human being is no more important than being a spec of dust on your mom's toilet seat. Are you proud to be a human being? Why the hell should you be? By the way, the only argument I can think of that would give credence to the idea that human's are more "valuable" than anything else is due to the energy involved...we all know that it's better to eat a single cow because that cow contains x times the amount of energy of a single fish. Thus, the cow has more energy to contribute, and thus more energy to give. But actually...doesn't this suggest that sacrifice becomes MORE important as you climb higher up the food chain?
Edit 2: Sacrifice is a sign of strength as it takes strength to sacrifice. If your ego hurts when you sacrifice...then your ego is weak.
Your concept of pride, interdependence -- love, it's all just a result of a feeble human intellect trying to justify its existence. There is no meaning. There is no purpose so why try to tie yourself to things so insipid and artificial? You're merely tossing salad and eating it too; fiber that lacks any benefit other than to move the nutrients and energy that keeps you alive: You can't even stand to live without your artificial moral constructs. No wonder you don't understand where I come from. You're no individual. You're a shell; a means to an end. Feel free to be as such but you won't force me to play your game. Heh and you define utilitarian resources such as energy as what makes life. You make me sick. Life is not defined by its consumption but its choices in perception, in what it chooses to value, the resources it chooses to grasp whether it be the coercion of its own existence or higher-level pleasure. No concept, no religion, no artificial meaning can change the force and value by which organisms sustain. I choose to accept these selfish desires and its by no interdependence that one chooses to create and thrive: it's by ones choosing and feeling alone that an action is made. Multiple individuals cannot act and feel unilaterally. One may exchange with others to achieve their ends but this debt was paid as it was made. No slavery is obliged. I never implied importance nor entitled value from mere existence alone. I am only the value people wish to grasp through whatever means and the value I bring myself through my choice to sustain. I am a man of choice, Mr. Joint. I choose to value myself and others may choose to value me. To force me to value something I don't wish to value, that to me is sacrifice. That to me is slavery. Those who succumb to the whims of others and their definition of value unilaterally... that's weakness. That's no choice at all. A man chooses. A slave obeys. Again value is choice. I'll achieve what I want through whatever means and that may be through valuing other people. That's not selfless and that's not sacrifice in my book for I suffered no loss. No loss is no sacrifice. Feel free to stroke your ego by giving it terms such as sacrifice but I won't stand under it. To tell me genuine sacrifice, death and destruction is virtuous under pragmatic and religious pretenses -- that won't alter me any. There is no god, there is no sacred purpose besides what an individual perception values. |
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If anything, thank yourself and everybody else for the wealth we have all created. Let's celebrate our mutual gain. Let's celebrate what we have all gained by our rational selfishness through the value we cherish in our fellow man and the value we bring through ourselves.
We should be thanking the slaves who built our country. That debt was paid long ago. I don't think we should be holding grudges indefinitely. There is something called forgiveness. Lol we can debate whether or not that "debt" has been paid off or not for 20 pages... Anyways Happy Thanks Giving Atlas  . Happy Thanksgiving. I enjoy knowing you, FlipPro. I hope you believe that. |
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Yes, you are reading it. You're reading very well, Matthew.
However, when it comes to the argument, you are not arguing relevant facts. You can spew random facts all you want but in the end it's what is relevant that matters. The fact is Thanksgiving overall -- culturally and empirically -- celebrates good fortune and production.
Who gives a shit? Can't you just celebrate the holiday and be HAPPY? No wonder people troll you. Heh. Who says I am not happy? |
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If anything, thank yourself and everybody else for the wealth we have all created. Let's celebrate our mutual gain. Let's celebrate what we have all gained by our rational selfishness through the value we cherish in our fellow man and the value we bring through ourselves.
We should be thanking the slaves who built our country. That debt was paid long ago. I don't think we should be holding grudges indefinitely. There is something called forgiveness. |
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Yes, you are reading it. You're reading very well, Matthew.
However, when it comes to the argument, you are not arguing relevant facts. You can spew random facts all you want but in the end it's what is relevant that matters. The fact is Thanksgiving overall -- culturally and empirically -- celebrates good fortune and production.
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No, you are still wrong and I remain correct. The reasons for the holiday stay true to its origin in spirit: a day that celebrates good harvest and good fortune. Thanksgiving goes back way before 1637. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving_(Canada) You didn't read it. After the Seven Years' War ended in 1763 handing over of New France to the British, the citizens of Halifax held a special day of Thanksgiving. Thanksgiving days were observed beginning in 1799 but did not occur every year. No, you didn't read it. I stand by everything that I have said. Thanksgiving in spirit goes to production and good fortune. Thanksgiving, or Thanksgiving Day (Canadian French: Jour de l'Action de grâce), occurring on the second Monday in October (since 1957), is an annual Canadian holiday to give thanks at the close of the harvest season.
On Thursday, January 31, 1957, the Canadian Parliament proclaimed:
“ A Day of General Thanksgiving to Almighty God for the bountiful harvest with which Canada has been blessed – to be observed on the 2nd Monday in October. ”
Since 1971, Thanksgiving in Canada has coincided with the observance of Columbus Day in the United States...
The history of Thanksgiving in Canada can be traced back to the 1578 voyage of Martin Frobisher from England in search of the Northwest Passage. In this, his third, voyage to the Frobisher Bay area of Baffin Island in the present Canadian Territory of Nunavut, it was also the intention to start a small settlement and his fleet of 15 ships were so fitted out with men, materials and provisions for this purpose. However, the loss of one of his ships through contact with ice along with much of the building material was to prevent him from doing so. The expedition was plagued by ice and freak storms which at times had scattered the fleet and on meeting together again at their anchorage in Frobisher Bay, “..Mayster Wolfall, [ Robert Wolfall ] a learned man, appoynted by hir Majesties Councell to be theyr minister and preacher, made unto them a godly sermon, exhorting them especially to be thankefull to God for theyr strange and miraculous deliverance in those so dangerous places,…” . They celebrated Communion and “The celebration of divine mystery was the first signe, scale, and confirmation of Christes name, death and passion ever known in all these quarters.”
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No, you are still wrong and I remain correct. The reasons for the holiday stay true to its origin in spirit: a day that celebrates good harvest and good fortune. Thanksgiving goes back way before 1637. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thanksgiving_(Canada) |
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Also, Thanksgiving was originally made to celebrate a good harvest. Anything beyond that is new culture.
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