Again, forking is fine. Just do it with consensus -- or otherwise implement your fork as a stated altcoin. There are two camps here: one camp that either doesn't understand or doesn't care whether bitcoin is broken into multiple ledgers forever based on differing rule sets, and another camp that wants to avoid that. The block size debate is not worth breaking consensus over. This is exactly what I've been trying to tell Fatty. He's just very set in his ways.  When the time comes, and you're on the wrong side of the 75%, then you're the one who's standing in the way of consensus. So, don't be bad. Bad is not good.  |
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Cool, well built. I like the examples they've added for use cases. nice to see you here! with all the shit going on in the bitcoin-world eth seems like a good "safe haven" Nice to see you too! I've been following Ethereum for over a year now. It's the only alt (if you can call it that) which brings anything really new and meaningful to the table. And since its main purpose is everything else than money, there's far less right wing nutters going completely ape in ethereum. Haven't really accumulated much eth though, but I finally ordered a used graphics card to do some mining. Ethereum is going to be big. Bitcoin may be what the IMF and Wall Street has been waiting for. But Ethereum is what the world has been waiting for. And if their decision to cap total amount of eth sticks, their token should be quite valuable as well. |
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Segwit is more like 1.3MB equiv, to 1.75MB equiv in a rosy scenario. It also gives a heavy discount to signature heavy transactions like the vaporous LN. Most importantly, the "soft" fork method allows no room for protest at the node level.
It has the added "benefit" of leaving all non segwit nodes in a half broken state, not able to fully validate. All done without their request or permission.
way to understate segwit. 1.75x incess is HUGE! scaling bitcoin isnt about how big we can make the blocks, but how efficiently we can use block space Eeehhhrrrmmm.... what about the users then? I thought it was about making the necessary decisions well ahead of capacity being a problem? When fee-paying transactions take three days, someone messed up. This is how much Bitcoin can suck for certified tech-geeks without any congestion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnm4xFC2xNo |
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Cool, well built. I like the examples they've added for use cases. |
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And its fate rests in the hands of economically illiterate squabbling nerds.
Not exactly comforting, but I still have hope.
what, a hopeless fat loser with hope? You forgot hip and cool, like Vanilla Ice!  "Ice Ice Baby"Ok, maybe more like Vanilla Custard. |
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Gold is up almost 15% without any noticeable pullbacks yet. This is straight connected to the dropping Stock markets. The Goldprice is a straight measure of market fear.
This is the time for bitcoin to shine like gold does. If we dump just like the stock markets do I don't see many people looking into bitcoin as a possible investment in bad times.
I think part of the market sees it as digital gold and part of it sees it as a tech stock. That should lead to head-scratching and flat. Or extreme violence. Either way. Well if you are honest 99% of the people don't see a real problem with fiat money, even if you explain it to them. They simply don't care Only that the the 99.9% haven't got any money, relatively speaking. The 0.01% who do have the money do care. if you say that you did not understand the system... the upper 1% are the guys profiting from the printed money not the 99% they are forced to be poor no matter how much they work on their regular job. On top most Billionaires and Millionaires are mostly on paper rich, mainly because they have a lot of shares of something in the stock market. Like Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Sergey Brin, etc. essential every rich person super rich. In Benjamin Grahams book "The Intelligent Investor" there were some musings on if people put their savings in a portfolio of solid household stocks instead of the bank. This way your savings will follow value creation instead of money policy. Eventually I hope Bitcoin will have a similar profile. Surely Bitcoin can be at some point a real investment strategy if the price gets more stable in the area of Gold. You also want the liquidity which the big markets provide. I mean if I would have 1 Million $ to invest I would surely not put it in bitcoin. Maybe a small % to profit from it if it takes over the world. Sure it can go up and I could easily double or quadruple at some point. But in the end Bitcoin is a high risk asset and could end at some point and become worthless. And its fate rests in the hands of economically illiterate squabbling nerds. Not exactly comforting, but I still have hope. |
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Gold is up almost 15% without any noticeable pullbacks yet. This is straight connected to the dropping Stock markets. The Goldprice is a straight measure of market fear.
This is the time for bitcoin to shine like gold does. If we dump just like the stock markets do I don't see many people looking into bitcoin as a possible investment in bad times.
I think part of the market sees it as digital gold and part of it sees it as a tech stock. That should lead to head-scratching and flat. Or extreme violence. Either way. Well if you are honest 99% of the people don't see a real problem with fiat money, even if you explain it to them. They simply don't care Only that the the 99.9% haven't got any money, relatively speaking. The 0.01% who do have the money do care. if you say that you did not understand the system... the upper 1% are the guys profiting from the printed money not the 99% they are forced to be poor no matter how much they work on their regular job. On top most Billionaires and Millionaires are mostly on paper rich, mainly because they have a lot of shares of something in the stock market. Like Mark Zuckerberg, Bill Gates, Sergey Brin, etc. essential every rich person super rich. In Benjamin Grahams book "The Intelligent Investor" there were some musings on if people put their savings in a portfolio of solid household stocks instead of the bank. This way your savings will follow value creation instead of money policy. Eventually I hope Bitcoin will have a similar profile. |
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Gold is up almost 15% without any noticeable pullbacks yet. This is straight connected to the dropping Stock markets. The Goldprice is a straight measure of market fear.
This is the time for bitcoin to shine like gold does. If we dump just like the stock markets do I don't see many people looking into bitcoin as a possible investment in bad times.
I think part of the market sees it as digital gold and part of it sees it as a tech stock. That should lead to head-scratching and flat. Or extreme violence. Either way. |
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I'll fire down my classic nodes if we get 2mb+segwit in april. No coup, no drama, no contentious fork.
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By the way, you know that pre-fork coins could also be sold off on majority-fork exchanges? Particularly because early adopters might be a little pissed off at the commit keys for bitcoin's dominant implementation being in the hands of a junior dev who wants to make the question of inflating the money supply a democratic one (jtoomim). How do you know who controls millions of pre-fork coins? You can be sure that I'll be dumping everything the second Toomim gets the keys to the kingdom, and I know several likeminded people.
This is the most likely outcome. Once we start selling everything and the price starts crashing, everyone will join in on it. I believe that If non-Core hard fork wins, major holders will sell BTC, driving price into the ground. 28113.50234684 Ƀ (84.89%)Gavin said himself that he doesn't see bitcoin as a store of value, just a means of exchange like any other currency: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=204.msg1714#msg1714That's not what the post says. It didn't say that when Gmaxwell linked to it, and it doesn't say it now. I am really worried about the reading comprehension of Core supporters. Wat? I plan on using Bitcoins as a convenient, very-low-cost means of exchange.
I don't plan on saving a significant number of Bitcoins as a store of value. He then goes on to compare hoarding bitcoin to hoarding dollars or euros or yen Some people, like Gavin, don't care about bitcoin's value proposition. They just see it as a payment channel. That's okay, but I strongly disagree. Ok, it looks like part of the problem is that you don't see money as a store of value. Unless you didn't know that money is commonly thought to be a store of value it is very disingenuous of you to just assume that Gavin Andresen doesn't see money as a store of value. Especially when it is right there in his text. And even more so since I quoted that part and you cut it out in your reply. I still hope It is your reading comprehension that is at fault. If not, then it is your character. |
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That's why I say, only if that is the change.
Frankly I don't understand why it would need many coders or time to change a line of code from 1mb to 2mb. I can do it quickly, just give me an hour, grep and vi.
I don't want to support a hard fork that does anything but the block size change. Throwing in last minute changes along with it is similar to politicians throwing in their shitty little laws here and there with major laws that everyone supports.
There are indeed more changes to Classic than you are implying... There necessarily has to be because simply changing maxBlockSize from 1,000,000 bytes to 2,000,000 bytes would be dangerously irresponsible and introduce new attack vectors. Here is a list of the changes done - https://github.com/gavinandresen/bips/blob/92e1efd0493c1cbde47304c9711f13f413cc9099/bip-bump2mb.mediawikiWhat I find most deplorable about these changes is the 75% threshold and extremely small 28 day window which goes against the miners wishes of 90% . Even Bitmain's CEO believes this is too small. Softforks require 95% mining consensus for goodness sake and they want to push through a contentious hardfork at 75%.... This is essentially a political coup. Good points. Sure, Classic is "just a simple 2MB patch." And some new sigop-bothering cruft. And a contentious hard fork, done at "75%" (variance notwithstanding) with one month for everyone to upgrade. And a political coup. It's very simple. As long as you ignore the new 20k/block sigop limit, the optimally dangerous hard fork, and the core-dev-alienating governance coup. These Gavinistas are either fucking idiots, fucking liars, or both. Well, you are both, so what are the symptoms? And please don't start ranting about that thai "girl" and your spotted dick again. I'm pretty sure that's unrelated. |
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Classic is just Core with at 2mb block size limit and a governance coup that will alienate our best devs.
FTFY. And don't forget 2mb blocks + segwit hurts decentralization (because of bandwidth/storage constraints). Your post failed to mention segwit. Why is that? ... Nah, it doesn't hurt decentralization iCICLE, don't just parrot the shit said by grownups (whose boots you're forced to lick due to your string of "unfortunate" investments) Don't be so hard on him. He wised up. Just look at how he's all down with Monero. They say it's the esperanto of cryptocurrencies. |
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Unfortunately classic is not quite dead yet.
When it is and the threat of chaotic, contentious and unnecessary (segwit is superior) hard fork is over, we can all look forward to a massive price increase (like move from 230->450 after xt collapse) and bitcoin moving forward.
These bombing runs from Gavin and coinbase are getting tiring.
I doubt they will be able to centralise bitcoin development under their control.
Lighten up Francis! Bitcoin's antifragility only grows stronger when presented with adversity. And the stampeding herds of noisy Gavinista Lolcows are more comedy than adversity. Coinbase and Gavin@TLA.MIT.GOV have now spent over a year bloviating about Capacity Crunches, Hard Landings, etc. Result? Honey Badger just don't care.  OMG! The USG is controlling Wladimir van der Laan as well. Looks like Bitcoin Unlimited is the only viable choice. Thx aRSEBREAKER! |
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@BMB Don't worry, we are both merely wet farts in the sewers.
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Hum so, basically you just go for anything strangers tells you to, putting literally YOUR money at risk at every corner??! just wow.  No, that is called "Supporting Core". And its not YOUR money anymore - Its AXA/Horizons. So be careful you dont get it grubby with your filthy hands before they can collect it via LN. Thank You. Don’t forget Moneta. Whatever the hell they are. https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1305286.msg13810512#msg13810512i wouldnt go hysterical over that. the community can fork to 2MB, core follows and everybody is happy. classic is not even close when it comes to further development. I sort of agree, but I am curious to see what happens in the Core camp when they realize they're working for an alt implementation. May be enough defections for there to be no need to turn back. |
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ps: why cant the 21m not be changed via a segwit like soft fork?
Decided to invest in something really solid. Sold all my BTC and bought viacoin. Baaaaaahaaaaahhaaaa!!!!! BtcDrak and Peter Todds altcoin?? Please tell me you're joking!?!?! |
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In past they have but you have to have substantial order. Home/hobby miners are not their customers. But look at like this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1167388.0 . They also sold Bit-X 1 PH long ago - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=896350.0In past they have sold to big commercial operations. So not sure where you got info they don't sell at all. SP I see as going for same customers as the SP50 was geared twords big operations. But again still lots of questions few answers. I sent them an e-mail. They don't sell hw, but they sell "hash capacity" starting at 1PH. If you bring enough capital... they do sell . You can see in past big operations they sold to: But look at like this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1167388.0 Were talking about a lot of money, and NDA's. I think you talk to them with substantial capital selling can happen, at least it has in past. But just emailing them for buying no you will not get far at all. One link where someone is selling old gear and another where Bitfury explicitly says they're not selling HW. What am I missing? The Bitfury light bulbs? |
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100% dead. Ain't never coming. Spondoolies and Guy Corem to get sued by creditors soon. I really would like to know out of curosity on SP50. If they are able to do some changing and get a chip that is closer to Bitfury's reported chip. Or if they really will not release and consider sunk cost. Only way I see them winning is if they can drastically beat Bitfury on chip price. And that no one knows, or at least no one without a NDA. For what it's worth I was hoping they would do consumer ones like SP20 again instead of SP50. Doubt that changes but seems they would want to do something with the chips they I would guess put a decent amount into R/D. And I guess we really don't know that either as no demo. So many good questions, but don't think we will get anwser. Although eventually we should it is interesting how SP has to release info compared to most privately owned firms that are tight lip'ed. If they released SP50 with "current" specs it would be plenty competitive, but fabs need to see money. Without some sort of pre-order it will be difficult to get this off the ground. One major worry for anyone selling HW now is that there is a real chance that mining will flatline for a couple of years. That is if they launch now or beat bitfury by a significant amount of time. Since bitfury has shown demo of chip, and SP has not had anything but rendering publicly I'm not guessing this will happen. I just see the big operations going to most efficiency with the "big money". NDA's make it kinda hard to know progress as most are secret on a lot. But if Bitfury beats SP to launch and has a better efficiency... I don't think it will be competitive. And that is pure speculation. We have no idea on SP process on how far they are with chip. But Bitfury doesn't sell any of their gear. They just maintain higher profits. They're not going to trigger another 51% attack fear wave. I hope. In past they have but you have to have substantial order. Home/hobby miners are not their customers. But look at like this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1167388.0 . They also sold Bit-X 1 PH long ago - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=896350.0In past they have sold to big commercial operations. So not sure where you got info they don't sell at all. SP I see as going for same customers as the SP50 was geared twords big operations. But again still lots of questions few answers. I sent them an e-mail. They don't sell hw, but they sell "hash capacity" starting at 1PH. |
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Unfortunately classic is not quite dead yet.
When it is and the threat of chaotic, contentious and unnecessary (segwit is superior) hard fork is over, we can all look forward to a massive price increase (like move from 230->450 after xt collapse) and bitcoin moving forward.
These bombing runs from Gavin and coinbase are getting tiring.
I doubt they will be able to centralise bitcoin development under their control.
Why unfortunately? Isn't it always good to have different possibilities? you never know what might happen  I personnally support all the coins! Classic, Core, Litecoin... It's precisely because Bitcoin Classic isn't an alt they all go mental. No its because I want bitcoin development lead by people who: value decetralisation, provide features like confidential transactions etc. as opposed to people who: visit cia, join organisations that want to work with government to police bitcoin, float ideas like blacklists of transactions, and do not care about ordinary node users etc. I don't want bitcoin to be crippled by these people into paypal 2.0 (except slower) What you said doesn't negate what I said. It reinforces it. |
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