A watched pot is slow to boil. Day 1 orders went out today..so they said, but yesterday they said they were shipping too...and they weren't. Chill, unless you imagine this is some really well produced scam...in which case we're all fucked  Personally I think they forgot to order cardboard boxes or tape. In the real world that's where nerds fall down.  |
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@Bitcoinorama
Are you now officialy work for Knc miners? They have presented you an working unit what you wanted to see first before you accept the job offer.
Maybe premature, but if you are working for them now (you already are, kind of), I believe congrats are in order
Great work my man!
Yes, they want me to stick around. Actually let me rephrase that; i've been forced to stick around in yesterday's clothing as they won't leave the factory until production is ramped up, and my clothing is in my hotel room, in Stockholm, that apparently wasn't needed. They've asked my first official engagement to be to deliver a Jupiter to Becky and Austin, of Life on Bitcoin at the Atlanta Bitcoin Conference this coming weekend. Which is cool as it was my suggestion they get involved when I emailed them the Kickstarter fundraiser for the film a week after the original openday. However, I'm only happy to agree if i'm permitted access to a change of clothing from now, until then. Unofficially, i'm currently assembling your kit, so cheers whoever gave them the Ikea chair assembly image. Pleased to hear that. Well deserved good times for you. |
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So anywhere up to 300 a day you think? At 469GH/s ( less than a BFL Minirig ) that's 140TH a day Current difficulty is 148,819,199.80509263 = 1065.289327 TH/s So if they ONLY spend a week making them, difficulty will go up ... 92% So the next 2 difficulty changes should together be over 184% ... Lets see who doesn't stop mining in 4 weeks  So lets say they only make them for 2 weeks - 184% - what will the return on them be? ... They won't all be Jupiters. Not that it is going to make a huge difference. I'm wondering who will have orders elsewhere, see this leap occur and think about cancelling ..or not bothering in the 1st place? If this had been someone else releasing mad hashpower before KnC I'd bet refunds would have been requested in droves if they were available. Lots of people bottled out even before this recent series of events because they couldn't see breakeven. Got to be the same or worse for any pre-orders elsewhere now hasn't it? |
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So anyone can estimate the daily production of units at 22/30 stations?
10 a day per station would seem very very low and would be 300 a day. They said all October orders would be out mid Oct. and I'd easily believe that. Our roving reporter will know better no doubt |
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Damn, my computer is louder than that. same here, my workstation makes definitely more noise I'm also interested in having more details about this (like anybody else fwiw). Anyway the avg hash rate for the last 3hs is 683.99. if confirmed it would be impressive. If you remember what Orama observed when he visited about the guys there and how they were really into what they were doing, they were enthusiasts and keen to see what they could make these rigs do...so it looks like his impression was spot on and now they have something to play with they are in their element. Maybe they're pushing one to destruction to see what the limit is? |
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If I were there making that video I'd be awfully tempted to turn round and reveal Josh's immortal words about KnC on the back of my lab coat.
Turned out to be the highest praise didn't it?
Dunno if it's the room it's in being so big or the time it's been running not being too long...but it's pleasantly quiet running for a box of fans isn't it?
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Couriers all over the world will be reporting being leapt upon by grinning maniacs for the next few weeks. |
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You get 500+ instead of 400 for a Jupiter. That rocks...
ands 500+ will return my 85BTC investment a generate some profit? really? KNC sell you miners. Thats it. They are not responsible for your profit or losses due to network hashrate! Erm, yes they are, unless you aren't going to mine with the KnC rigs they are pumping out (not as they originally said, a small manageable customer base they could support well). When the hashrate rises like a wall this month..that won't be KnC? lmao. They also made statements about the hashrate increase and how they were going to try and protect us from it if they could so we could see a return. They even said they would have a little break and not produce anything for months in the unlikely event that other people didn't ship rigs. Buying rigs is a mug's game at the moment, selling them is awesome...lovely profits, no need to even fund it yourself and not your fault if they don't make the punters any profit or even break even. OR if they are late, but not as late as BFL you're a hero. Mad business. Again: KNC sell you miners. Thats it. They are not responsible for your profit or losses due to network hashrate! And yes obv KNCs miners have an effect on the network. But seriously if you werent able to add that effect into your considerations than you better stay out of this whole business as you seem to lack basic understandings. So maybe you feel like telling me exactly how much hashing power KnC are selling in China? Or how you could even start to find that out? KnC sell miners, at a huge profit. Enough to drop 2k easily from the price as they did. You don't think that would have made the difference between breaking even or a loss for people waiting for rigs now? Man there's some masochists about in here. Whip me again..harder. lmao They have done well, only just missed Sept by the looks of it. That doesn't do customers an ounce of good however. It won't do KnC any good long term either...only a complete numpty will be back to donate some more hard earned money after losing this round. "Oh look I lost a grand sitting worrying while waiting for a rig that won't break even...that was fun . " Really? lol |
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You get 500+ instead of 400 for a Jupiter. That rocks...
ands 500+ will return my 85BTC investment a generate some profit? really? KNC sell you miners. Thats it. They are not responsible for your profit or losses due to network hashrate! Erm, yes they are, unless you aren't going to mine with the KnC rigs they are pumping out (not as they originally said, a small manageable customer base they could support well). When the hashrate rises like a wall this month..that won't be KnC? lmao. They also made statements about the hashrate increase and how they were going to try and protect us from it if they could so we could see a return. They even said they would have a little break and not produce anything for months in the unlikely event that other people didn't ship rigs. Buying rigs is a mug's game at the moment, selling them is awesome...lovely profits, no need to even fund it yourself and not your fault if they don't make the punters any profit or even break even. OR if they are late, but not as late as BFL you're a hero. Mad business. |
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Impressive. Are those only fans? ANyone want to venture a guess how many fans per box, how many boxes and how many fans per miner, and calculate how many miners this could be used for?
No, they are Arctic CPU coolers. Probably 18 per big box (based on the second photo)... So: 18 coolers per box * 21 boxes per load * 21 loads that I can see in the pic = at least 7938 coolers  So that's 7938 x100GHz per module minimum. Scary. |
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Interesting that Bitcoinorama was last active in forum this afternoon but did not post.
Nothing to do with him. He did some DD and some would say went out of his way to do so, and came here to tell us his observations. Are we so stupid that we don't appreciate that? The guy spent a lot more than a day and a fair chunk of cash going to investigate the goings on over there, and has nothing to do with their plans or production yet he got nailed to a cross for it. I'd revel in letting us all stew if I was him. |
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I see the thread is becoming a troll festival. While a delay or even a fail is still possible, it is quite possible KnC wan to make us a great, nice surprise. No one spoils the surprise by announcing it earlier.
I think most of this discussion is coming as a result of the guy who posted earlier and said he was told on the phone he had to wait 1-2 weeks TM for his miner. If he has a day 1 order, that's actually a lot to discuss. But now that you mention it, he didn't say where his order was in the queue. So I for one won't say anything else about it until we hear more. From today, two weeks should see all orders delivered that were scheduled for October. That's what they have said several times. Be nice if it happens, if not.."Medic!!" |
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shipping tommorow but no prototype yet ?
They've decided to adopt "no testing" policy, design is so good it's an insult to test it. Margin upon margin upon margin. and all boxes will explode at customer houses That's too close to real life experiences of BFL victims to be funny. |
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I'm just being paranoid I know, but I keep imagining Orama and the KnC lads at a beach bar laughing and high fiving each other while having that drink..in Barbados..right on schedule.
This arena is fucking perfect for the trust scam if it's done right isn't it?
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The only thing we're sure of is that we don't know and no-one is keen to tell us. The last time information was this hard to get there was an enigma machine involved.
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Noticed how BFL have suddenly picked up shipments the last couple of weeks, they have been shipping about 2 weeks worth of 50-60GH/s Single SC orders each day. That's a lot of GH/s they had thousands of those on pre-order. That will be a big part of the net hash increase we had this month, add KNCminer to that and omg.
yeah, I have also been curious of this new revelation as well. I think it confirms what I originally thought, that BFL has been withholding machines purposely to influence difficulty increase. now that the new kid on the block is getting close two competing, now they open the floodgates and let everybody have their 1 year late order in attempts 2 spike the difficulty and scare investors away from the competition. Is actually a pretty smart move business wise Huh? So instead of releasing units early which would increase BFL sales, decrease refunds, decrease lawsuits, and decrease competitor sales earlier they were holding back why? If they had been sitting around why not release all their units when KNC opened their order book? Let's face it, it's just taken this long for them to ramp up production to a reasonable level. If they were willing to ship out of line when people attempted chargebacks, they were probably also willing to accept 6 figure bribes to move MiniRigs out the back door when the difficulty was below 10m. I don't trust BFL one bit. Network protection for themselves while a tiny 20TH operation on the side is running is also possible. Or a combination of all of the above. I personally think the ASIC generation has screwed over the small miner for good. BFL was the last shot at making a decent return for yourself, but they kept it all. Now the difficulty is going to run away from everyone. If you can't build your own, you have no advantage. Why would people be honest and ship money printing boxes when there are so many sneaky things you could do with that? I'm not gonna jump the gun and say KnC is doing this, but people really need to be careful. I would get refunds if you can. There is just too much hashrate coming online now. November is many difficulty changes away. Well said. I really gave BFL the benefit of the doubt and for a long while. I read this thread and seeing the owner Josh try to defend himself (and attack others) as well as seeing people put him in his place with his own words, really helped me to see them for what they are. Title (LOL) - How about upping the Ghash/s on units to compensate for delays? https://forums.butterflylabs.com/post-sales-customer-service/4943-how-about-upping-ghash-s-units-compensate-delays.htmlI understand people were/are trying to make money with the rigs (and also support the network, have a hobby, etc.) but seeing people having to wait over 1 year for their equipment is just sad. Basically, BFL shouldn't have taken so many pre-orders. I'm sure when this gets to court (and it will), we will see just how far over the line BFL went. I think we will see the same thing with Avalon and Yifu. But, I think KNC Miner is going to be ok. Trying to limit the number of miners produced was a nice first step. Better communication is another. We can only hope now for the next few days. But KNC, BitFury, etc. are in another class compared to BFL and Avalon. ( aka - Cutting off your nose to Spite your Face.) I thought that too. Limiting miners produced and supporting their customer base was a nice idea. Then came CHINA. No-one opens up in China to limit sales. (Nor do they start referal schemes). We think we have an idea of the impact of KnC rigs coming online, but are the chinese sales included in that, or even in the same order list as the ones we're on? They could be completely separate and massive, I hope not for our sake. No real word from them for a while at this crucial point is annoying too, the silence is deafening. Which would you be doing, posting pics of racks being assembled, or the hosting faciilty ready to rock and roll? Easy answer for me, I'd be happy to share that after all the work I'd done. Even if we can't really do much about the production/delivery but wait, they still haven't said anything about the power supplies they recommend or that paperclip bullshit, or the interface for the miners or any manual ...easy things to do and helpful especially to new miners. All ASIC manufacturers seem to hit the point when they have the money safe in the bank where they don't give a toss about customers anymore and assume an air of arrogance towards them. KnC were never like this, but a lot of the stuff we've learned from them has been the result of customers and forum members contacting them and asking questions then reporting back here or prompting them to make a statement. The whole industry has an air of arrogance. "Pay your money and STFU and wait" kind of thing. People will say that Apple don't release daily reports about new products...but I'd say that you don't miss a few grand of income when Apple deliver your iThingy a month late. This industry is unique as far as time sensitivity is concerned. IF a builder gave you an estimate, took your money and acted in the same way he'd be called a cowboy and you'd be dragging him through court or worse not making excuses on his behalf. |
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Noticed how BFL have suddenly picked up shipments the last couple of weeks, they have been shipping about 2 weeks worth of 50-60GH/s Single SC orders each day. That's a lot of GH/s they had thousands of those on pre-order. That will be a big part of the net hash increase we had this month, add KNCminer to that and omg.
yeah, I have also been curious of this new revelation as well. I think it confirms what I originally thought, that BFL has been withholding machines purposely to influence difficulty increase. now that the new kid on the block is getting close two competing, now they open the floodgates and let everybody have their 1 year late order in attempts 2 spike the difficulty and scare investors away from the competition. Is actually a pretty smart move business wise Not very smart to have idle rigs sitting somewhere, wouldn't they "test" them for a month or so instead? Fucking amazing company they are, you order from them and they don't deliver until you can't make any return, then you move on to another supplier and they start to bang their kit out so you can't make as much there either. Then maybe they top that and get monarch out on time and in numbers ..although that does seem unlikely. |
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Whatever else happens, we should at least see a working rig in the next 24 hours or so...the one in Shanghai is being demonstrated on the 29th they said.
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do KNC have a customer support or do reply always one of the founder?
they have some girl called Anna.) ahh thanks! hopefully she is not only working part time. They advertised for support staff some weeks back. It was on their site. I think the handing over of rigs was mentioned on day one, that being part of the job. |
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I don't want a rushed rig, something that arrives a day late and doesn't last due to some easily avoided fault or lack of testing.
This is definitely a big worry, especially for those taking delivery. You could lose days, a week or more of mining sending it back to Sweden for repairs. I hope, even if they rush the first batch out the door, they go back to a proper and full testing procedure for the later rigs. Actually, for a bigger rig maybe not to bad if the modules can be sent back and replaced? You could have one in a day and send the bad one back with no real rush? |
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