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Paid? I though it was our computers that actually made them, solved the problem, created the bitcoins. The block chain does nothing but verify that the work you did adds up. Your computer was the device, single handedly, that created the block of coins. I don't see a payment.
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No. But someone certainly will. All the way up to the Supreme Court I would bet.
And you will be right there, carrying a placard outside, right? My $.02.  No. Nice eyepatch btw. Thanks! Just funnin' ya on the replies! We are all awash in new regs and trying to stay afloat! My $.02. Likewise All I'm saying, there's been loopholes before. The IRS is known for them. |
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No. But someone certainly will. All the way up to the Supreme Court I would bet.
And you will be right there, carrying a placard outside, right? My $.02. No. Nice eyepatch btw. |
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You could argue that any product you produce or manufacture, digital or hard goods, has value... Whether you are making copies of a script or software package, selling music CDs, DVDs of movies you produce, or you make widgets that have real value in the marketplace... Unless you sell them, there is no taxable event. Mining is a process in which something is made. The bitcoin does not exist before you mine it. The block ledger is not prewritten. If it was, their ruling would apply as it would be a transfer of something that is already in existence.
But Bitcoins don't exist before they are mined. Not in any way shape or form. Otherwise people would make them before the block got that far ahead. They are manufactured through a process. After which, they are a product. Shelve them.
Except there is a "transaction" that mines the block. That transaction has counterparties (the rest of the network). If you manufacture a CD and put it on a shelf, it is true you don't pay taxes on it. But if you sell that CD to a warehouse and the warehouse puts it on a shelf, you do pay taxes on it. Think of the blockchain as a warehouse. Again, this is not the only rule they could have written (and not the rule I would have written) and there are ways of looking at it that make sense and other ways of looking at it that don't. That likely could be said for any rule. Using your view that the block chain is a warehouse isn't accurate, because the coins don't exist, anywhere, until the next block is found. A warehouse would have to have inventory. The people make the bitcoins, out of thin air using hardware software, manpower, and energy. If people stopped altogether, there would be no more btc created. Sounds like manufacturing to me. |
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No. But someone certainly will. All the way up to the Supreme Court I would bet.
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If they are going to treat it as property, how would mined coins by a company set up as a corporation be treated? My impression is that per the IRS's position, bitcoins mined would be the same as a the creation of a product you create/produce for sale but does not sell. It becomes on the shelf inventory, and there is no taxable event until it sells. This applies to all companies that make products through a process, hard materials or digital. If you own a software application, or a script (plugin) you developed, and sell it for $50 per copy, and make 1000 copies on CDROM, you don't owe the IRS taxes on the copies until they sell. It's all 1s and 0s, so what difference is there between using computers to create scripts or plugins or software, or bitcoins? All property right? You just have to view it from a manufacturing standpoint. And the fact that they have ruled it is property, the manufacturing stance would in my opinion apply. Manufacturing being the creation of something tangible "property" from the use of labor, machines, raw materials, and energy resources. So you mine the coins, put them on paper wallets as inventory to sell. But hold them... For sale at a later date, which would be taxable. You'd have to set up an s-corp to do this, or is my thinking way off??
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If they are going to treat it as property, how would mined coins by a company set up as a corporation be treated? My impression is that per the IRS's position, bitcoins mined would be the same as a the creation of a product you create/produce for sale but does not sell. It becomes on the shelf inventory, and there is no taxable event until it sells. This applies to all companies that make products through a process, hard materials or digital. If you own a software application, or a script (plugin) you developed, and sell it for $50 per copy, and make 1000 copies on CDROM, you don't owe the IRS taxes on the copies until they sell. It's all 1s and 0s, so what difference is there between using computers to create scripts or plugins or software, or bitcoins? All property right? You just have to view it from a manufacturing standpoint. And the fact that they have ruled it is property, the manufacturing stance would in my opinion apply. Manufacturing being the creation of something tangible "property" from the use of labor, machines, raw materials, and energy resources. So you mine the coins, put them on paper wallets as inventory to sell. But hold them... For sale at a later date, which would be taxable. You'd have to set up an s-corp to do this, or is my thinking way off??
They are essentially saying that mining is more like receiving in trade than creating it yourself. It's a rule they made, in some sense doesn't have to be logical (as long as they can defend it in court), but if you want a logical basis for it, that's it right there. You could argue that any product you produce or manufacture, digital or hard goods, has value... Whether you are making copies of a script or software package, selling music CDs, DVDs of movies you produce, or you make widgets that have real value in the marketplace... Unless you sell them, there is no taxable event. Mining is a process in which something is made. The bitcoin does not exist before you mine it. The block ledger is not prewritten. If it was, their ruling would apply as it would be a transfer of something that is already in existence. But Bitcoins don't exist before they are mined. Not in any way shape or form. Otherwise people would make them before the block got that far ahead. They are manufactured through a process. After which, they are a product. Shelve them. |
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If they are going to treat it as property, how would mined coins by a company set up as a corporation be treated? My impression is that per the IRS's position, bitcoins mined would be the same as a the creation of a product you create/produce for sale but does not sell. It becomes on the shelf inventory, and there is no taxable event until it sells. This applies to all companies that make products through a process, hard materials or digital. If you own a software application, or a script (plugin) you developed, and sell it for $50 per copy, and make 1000 copies on CDROM, you don't owe the IRS taxes on the copies until they sell. It's all 1s and 0s, so what difference is there between using computers to create scripts or plugins or software, or bitcoins? All property right? You just have to view it from a manufacturing standpoint. And the fact that they have ruled it is property, the manufacturing stance would in my opinion apply. Manufacturing being the creation of something tangible "property" from the use of labor, machines, raw materials, and energy resources. So you mine the coins, put them on paper wallets as inventory to sell. But hold them... For sale at a later date, which would be taxable. You'd have to set up an s-corp to do this, or is my thinking way off??
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If they are going to treat it as property, how would mined coins by a company set up as a corporation be treated? My impression is that per the IRS's position, bitcoins mined would be the same as a the creation of a product you create/produce for sale but does not sell. It becomes on the shelf inventory, and there is no taxable event until it sells. This applies to all companies that make products through a process, hard materials or digital. If you own a software application, or a script (plugin) you developed, and sell it for $50 per copy, and make 1000 copies on CDROM, you don't owe the IRS taxes on the copies until they sell. It's all 1s and 0s, so what difference is there between using computers to create scripts or plugins or software, or bitcoins? All property right? You just have to view it from a manufacturing standpoint. And the fact that they have ruled it is property, the manufacturing stance would in my opinion apply. Manufacturing being the creation of something tangible "property" from the use of labor, machines, raw materials, and energy resources. So you mine the coins, put them on paper wallets as inventory to sell. But hold them... For sale at a later date, which would be taxable. You'd have to set up an s-corp to do this, or is my thinking way off??
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My point being, using the above methodology, unless you sell the product you've created... The "property" you now own that you have produced using hardware and software (or in this industry they call them miners), would not be taxable until you sell that property for fiat or exchange for goods.
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If they are going to treat it as property, how would mined coins by a company set up as a corporation be treated? My impression is that per the IRS's position, bitcoins mined would be the same as a the creation of a product you create/produce for sale but does not sell. It becomes on the shelf inventory, and there is no taxable event until it sells. This applies to all companies that make products through a process, hard materials or digital. If you own a software application, or a script (plugin) you developed, and sell it for $50 per copy, and make 1000 copies on CDROM, you don't owe the IRS taxes on the copies until they sell. It's all 1s and 0s, so what difference is there between using computers to create scripts or plugins or software, or bitcoins? All property right? You just have to view it from a manufacturing standpoint. And the fact that they have ruled it is property, the manufacturing stance would in my opinion apply. Manufacturing being the creation of something tangible "property" from the use of labor, machines, raw materials, and energy resources. So you mine the coins, put them on paper wallets as inventory to sell. But hold them... For sale at a later date, which would be taxable. You'd have to set up an s-corp to do this, or is my thinking way off??
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I bought 60,000 today at roughly .00005.  |
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Everyone get on Mintpal NOW!
Buy at current price. HVC can be pushed up into the 65 territory with only a few BTC worth of total transactions. Then hold!!!
Let's close out this trading day with huge gains!
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Bought 60,000 at .00005. Going long.
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Large buys in big swoops, not a lot of small sells, basically lots of people holding coins... Upward pressure, people buying in at .000050 in big orders, it's doing nothing but moving up. Little dips yes, but the fact that you can mine this coin like LTC and run at super cool temps, and the fact that LTC now has ASICs, and temps are so hot, moving into summer.... This is very exciting. Finally a coin with so much promise. I feel like we have another LTC in the making, but better!
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It seems it's currently more profitable to mine LTC with these cards than HVC.  Why not then just mine LTC and buy more HVC with the LTC earnings?
no its not and will never be for gpu mining. LTC for gpu is history. U need scrpyt ASIC to earn decent income. If u are serious about being a miner. Do some read up. Saying LTC is more profitable to mine shows how little u know about mining. Its still profitable to mine using gpu for quite sometime but I wouldn't bet my money on mining any scrypt coin. I stopped mining any scrypt long long time ago. It might be profitable to mine scrypt coin for this minute but you have to expect multi pool and scrpyt ASIC to come hunt them down any second. Ok yea I'll read up on "how" to mine on my 50 MegaHash setup. Perhaps one day I can be a serious miner. . I'll give it another try. Just started 20 280x cards with the new miner at i7. Getting 150 m/h. We will see in 24 hours how much that yields. |
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It seems it's currently more profitable to mine LTC with these cards than HVC. Why not then just mine LTC and buy more HVC with the LTC earnings?
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Seems all of the good ones went to GPU. Just curious if there are any CPU coins left that are worth the time.... Or should I sell my 4770k's?
Thanks!
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It seems it's currently more profitable to mine LTC with these cards than HVC. Why not then just mine LTC and buy more HVC with the LTC earnings?
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Considering many of the "cpu coins" ended up with GPU miners developed for them...
Poll on the current most profitable CPU ONLY Coin that can't be mined with GPU or ASICs?
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