another one is to take a loan from the central bank of europe, why they can't just ask for that, isn't this the way they operate when they have a debt? just print more money right?
there should not be any problem, past debts were resolved in this way, they know that there is no other solution
Indeed ridiculous, ECB is printing 60 billion Euro per month right now, and comparing to that, those 1.6 billion debt of Greece is nothing Although Euro can be created out of thin air, ECB is afraid of this: If Greece keeps borrowing money and never return them, other countries will follow suit, then after a while no one will be working and every one is borrowing Euro to spend, thus Euro's value will drop dramatically and their power of money printing will become as good as Zimbabwe government In fact the trend of confidence collapse of fiat money's value is slowly growing when people's knowledge about money is growing. Kicking Greece out of EMU can delay the inevitable for a few years, so that banks have more time to purchase enough assets (maybe bitcoin) using Euro out of thin air Unlike China, Greece have no large bitcoin exchanges, so the capital outflow of Greek people using bitcoin is relatively difficult
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A large scale short squeeze on Huobi ![Roll Eyes](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif)
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This is centralization, we need more farms at other places of the world ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif)
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99% of bitcoin, 1% of gold
Gold awareness is already widely achieved, it will be produced more and more with future technology, and it will be used less and less in digital society, so the supply demand outlook is not that bright, the industry usage can be ignored
Bitcoin on the other hand is on the way to mass adoption, in a rising trend in almost every aspect. It is the growth that matters
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That's pure nonsense. In case of Bitcoin (cost of printing creating a BTC tending toward its value price), you create an economy where half of the resources go into the production and securing the currency itself. That's what "wasteful" means to me, tho your opinion may differ.
People tends to miss the huge cost associated with fiat money The cost of making fiat money is typically a war, and the energy consumption of a war could be billions of times more than bitcoin mining, not even mention millions of lives involved In fact, even after you conquered a country and start to print fiat money without any cost, you still can not make sure that those paper and numbers will lose their value dramatically, because they have to stand against the speculations on foreign exchange market. So central banks have to spend many more times fortune than bitcoin mining to build up their foreign currency reserve to protect the exchange rate of their local currency Those costs were mostly hidden from the citizen for that country. Everyone working in the country are contributing to the value of its monetary system, just they don't know. But for bitcoin, if you don't care, you contribute absolute nothing, only miners do the work, so the efficiency is extremely high
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This author have indeed done some research and thinking! The catch 22 part especially has some insight
However he's view is not enough deep: People will not store their bitcoin FOREVER, when their coins have appreciated enough (typically 10x to 100x), they will start to spend at least some of them (Speculators might dump all of them after a 10x increase, that's the reason for large price fall after a bubble)
And this behavior is self-supporting and long term sustainable: Saving for the long term and spend slowly in future will not change the shrinking supply nature of bitcoin. So, just like a pension plan, with a mathematically guaranteed return, that's the most attractive part of bitcoin
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For safe storage, bank still seems to be a good place. But lending is unlikely to be popular with bitcoin, so a bitcoin bank most likely will provide the safe storage service against a fee
If you really have the necessary skill, that fee can be avoid, so does many IT experts. But it takes some effort to build a safe storage solution for non-IT people
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SEB prohibited me from using their bank account to do bitcoin business ![Lips sealed](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/lipsrsealed.gif) Due to low traceability, the easiest way for government to regulate bitcoin today is to treat it exactly like cash. All the limitations to cash applies to bitcoin, like daily/weekly withdraw limit from exchanges and maximum amount of bitcoin that you can buy/sell from exchanges each month That will stop large amount of speculative bubbles and large scale money laundering. However, that will not stop business using bitcoin to do large transactions without touching fiat money. So I guess for business similar rules will also apply: No bitcoin payment is allowed above certain amount. Since businesses are much easier to regulate, they will follow the rules And this will not stop people from using it as an investment vehicle, purchase a few coins monthly and spend them after many years. For exchanges and institutions, the capital flow cap might be lifted
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That's a lot of coins, some people still have hope to reach 10000 coins holding target
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Bitcoin transaction fee is related to the data traffic, not the amount of coins transacted, so it is more favorable for large transactions than small transactions
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Just treat it like cash, refuse large scale transactions and set daily limit, this will avoid lots of AML work
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Based on historical performance, even 1% of bitcoin exposure in portfolio will give you a potential return of 25% for the whole portfolio per year. Of course that was largely due to two waves of technology shift, without significant technology breakthrough in sight, the growth will slow down a bit
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bitcoin is already centralized in a sense .. consider the number of people with control over the software, which is basically a form of centralization
Indeed, political power of programmers are on the rise in almost every industry. However there are many basic properties are prohibited to change, like total number of coins, POW mining, difficulty adjust mechanism, block generation speed, reward halving scheme etc... So core devs are mostly doing performance oriented improvements. Even so they would raise the debate of block size limit to political level, that is too much
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I guess XT is a pilot project by Gavin and Mike to test their support rate, but the way of voting is useless, someone could easily setup hundreds or thousands of nodes with either core or XT clients and affect the vote result Vote is not a solution for bitcoin. Consensus is based on general understanding and facts, currently too many talks, no facts. I suggest this article https://tradeblock.com/blog/bitcoin-network-capacity-analysis-part-4-simulating-practical-capacityI guess majority of people that have serious investment in bitcoin ecosystem will take a "wait and see" approach, hold on to the universal wisdom in IT projects: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it". From the simulation time line, we have at least 6 months before we see some major slowdown in transactions, and even if we reached that stage, a more conservative approach like 4MB blocks might be adopted: When people are facing future financial uncertainty, they tends to reduce the risk exposure
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well all countries has debit ,,, those allowed people to make them houses and pay in 40 years.... they can buy a computer buy internet buy a car ... the thing is if the loans wouldnt be allowed do you really think we would have a better life?
You can not kick the can down the road forever. Banks usually drive larger and larger bubble to create jobs and increase income, however they have run out of bubbles now. When people consume something from future, but their future income is getting worse year by year (Due to market saturation and technology unemployment), less and less people will be able to pay back the loan, so more and more people will default and banks will eventually acquire majority of the assets many years down the road. Of course no one cares when they have a better life now, but how about their next generation? The system is unsustainable long term wise, the situation is getting worse for young people quickly
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Much faster than you can imagine
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You obviously don't understand what XT is doing. There is no chance until a 90% consensus is reached. Inform yourself before you write BS.
Well and then people will pretend to update and switch back to core later. You'll be looking how many guns come out the woodwork after the fork to run core... prepare your anus. Core won't die and two chains are inevitable. Gavincoin doesn't stand a chance longterm with or without "supermajority". Supermajority does mean nothing. The waters are poisoned by Gavin and his mob. Nothing will grow from it. Exactly. Andresen and Hearn know very well that their XT-fork would fail to get enough support. The reason they mention it is solely to put pressure the other developers to integrate their changes in Core. I'm happy to see that (among others) Maxwell, Todd, and Garzik have so far withstood this pressure. They have far better arguments and solutions to offer and imho they are in general more competent than Andresen and esp. Hearn to work on a financial software. Andresen and Hearn have both a corporatist, pro governance world view that is largely incompatible with and dangerous for the core aspects of Bitcoin. ya.ya.yo! As long as people are involved, there will be politics. But I don't think bitcoin should have anything to do with politics, any kind of political practice will just make things more complicated, the XT is obviously such a movement (Gavin using XT to test his support rate) The consensus is easy to reach when the majority of transactions are queued for at least 1 blocks, and that will happen long before the 1MB cap were reached for every blocks Here is a good article from tradeblock researching the capacity https://tradeblock.com/blog/bitcoin-network-capacity-analysis-part-4-simulating-practical-capacity
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As long as you can print money, you can always pay back whatever amount of debt, that's not the problem. Only a country like Greece who can not print money for themselves will run into huge problems
However, those printed money's initial ownership is strange: It should belong to governments, but in reality they all belongs to central banks, which in turn is owned by regional reserve banks. So banks actually pay back the debt using printed money, at the same time those money become the new debt of the government, so that government's debt is ballooning (They borrow money from central bank to pay debt)
Anyway, banks can write off those debt just like they create money, so the debt is really an illusion. It is a way to keep the game running, but the game designer can easily change the rules and still make it work
But foreign investors in US government bonds will not write off those debts, they will require a 100% repayment plus interest, so central banks will print some money to pay them in future
This games runs as long as people accept payment in fiat money, if the trust for fiat money is gone, then the system will collapse
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Well, it seems as though this might be a valid argument. The software used to determine the total amount of nodes, was fine tuned lately, and it has been determined that there are a lot less fully functioning nodes out there, than was initially thought. Some people will also run nodes with Bitcoin XT and others with Core. So there will definately be less nodes... This might become a problem in the future, if things continue at the trend is going now. If you run a node, make sure it is 100% configured for optimal performance. ![Sad](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/sad.gif) This is the problem I see with XT move, we should avoid politics in bitcoin, it should function like gold, no human can change the basic properties. Gavin threw out this XT version without reaching enough consensus, its intention is very unclear, bitcoin should not become a tool for people to realize their political interest
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I think anyone with significant amount of bitcoin holding (10K+ USD) will surely setup a dedicated node on high speed residential networks, the cost of such a server is very low comparing with the safety of his investment
Mining farms on the other hand will have a trend to further centralize, that is the danger, has nothing to do with block size
Why do you say that when many people clearly do not do so today? Maybe there are not so many people invested that much in bitcoin? ![Roll Eyes](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/rolleyes.gif) It takes time and also necessary skill. People will start to care about the network health only when they have been involved for enough long. I just setup my dedicated node last year, although I have been here since 2011. Mining is the first thing every one noticed because it is incentivized, running nodes are not. If mining always require a full node setup, then we might have millions of nodes ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif) And only after you have a full node setup, you can start to run P2POOL, which is the ideal form of pooled mining, a catch 22 situation Comparing with early days when everyone could run a full node, the number of nodes are shrinking. The hash power concentration also reduced number of miners. But the current nodes are mostly dedicated hard core nodes, they will exist as long as bitcoin exists, and hopefully the number will increase following more awareness of the network health
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