PLEASE don't post that "china can't/won't ban/cut off internet connection". No worries. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) If this situation were to arise, I think the lead devs (Hearn and Gavin) would just release an emergency patch to get everyone back on the "right" fork! That's what I worry about: "right" forkLet's say 4% of unknown 26% HR coming from China. That means china has 60% of network and rest of the world has 40%. How will Hearn and Gavin decide which one is "right" fork? There are things you don't need to know right now. Just push the 'upgrade' button on your MultiBitch client and everything will be fine. If bitcoin is controlled by a few programmers or a group of mining farms, then it is even worse than 12 FOMC members in FED. Bitcoin should be easy to understand for everyone, no conspiracy and hidden secrets. No one in the world can use personal power to affect gold's property, so should bitcoin. Gavin is just following the early hints of Satoshi, nothing more
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I think anyone with significant amount of bitcoin holding (10K+ USD) will surely setup a dedicated node on high speed residential networks, the cost of such a server is very low comparing with the safety of his investment
Mining farms on the other hand will have a trend to further centralize, that is the danger, has nothing to do with block size
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There were only 301 readers participated. It's not a national referendum. ![Smiley](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/smiley.gif) However, I am glad to hear more support for Gavin's fork. I like to stress the point that Gavin is NOT implementing a new idea, he is actually moving towards restoring the original idea from Satoshi. Chinese mining farms and exchanges have voiced they had concerns with Gavin's fork and they are likely to follow the "vanilla" bitcoin core. If more communities support Gavin, would China reconsider their position? ![Undecided](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/undecided.gif) This is like diplomatic negotiation between large countries, no way to vote for a decision, and hard fork/hash war will destroy every participants. Participants would have to take some compromise and reach a middle ground In fact, the more flexible you are, the easier you can reach a solution. But the world is full of stubborn man ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif)
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Austrian economics is nonsense. Money is a medium of exchange and nothing else.
In a place where most disagree and hate keynesian , I doubt you'll find much love. Also, no keynesian is moronic. I also hate the law of gravity, but i can't do something about that! ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif) Keynesian is like a law in economics. Economy is not science, but politics. Science is about something that human can not change, the rule is set by nature. But economy is purely decided by human
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Difficulty has just jumped 5%, some 14/16nm chips are being turned on?
Previous two bubbles in bitcoin are mostly caused by the several magnitudes of efficiency raise of mining: Because mining usually is the lowest possible cost to get coin, when mining technology shifts, majority of miners will lose the ability to get enough coin through mining, and decided to go to market and purchase, that made the exchange rate skyrocket
After technology shift is over and new generation mining rigs can be deployed at large scale, the cost of mining will again become the lowest cost to get coins, so coin's exchange rate will eventually get close to the cost of mining due to arbitraging
During the bubble, many people paid their fiat money to get mining rigs or bitcoin, directly or indirectly supported the miners to upgrade infrastructure. And after the upgrading, the whole network commands much higher hash rate and becomes much more secure. Because many of those infrastructure projects have been ROIed, they can be easily relocated to places with cheap electricity and maintain same hash rate as before
This means, the network hash rate will never go down long term wise, due to more and more mining rigs will be ROIed over time. At the same time the barrier of entry will become higher and higher: There is a cost for each mining rig, unless you can make rigs of magnitudes higher efficiency, it might never ROI. Even if you have much more efficient miner, it would still take quite some time to ROI because of the heavy investment in chips
So, bitcoin's value is not only guaranteed by the mathematics in the protocol, but also driven by the continuous increase in the hashing power. When the barrier of entry getting higher and higher, anyone who want to invest in bitcoin mining would have to throw in a fortune to get some meaningful return
This is quite different than gold. Depleting a gold mine will not increase the difficulty of future gold mining too much, you would have similar cost when a new gold mine is found. But in bitcoin, all the investment are accumulative, makes it more and more difficult worldwide to get bitcoin over time, even the supply is constant in a 4 years period
That's the reason after each bubble, the bitcoin exchange rate will stabilize at much higher level than last bottom, due to higher barrier of entry in mining. This barrier drives small investors to exchanges and raise the exchange rate
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They see the possibility in using bitcoin to overcome international sanctions, similar to Chinese corrupted officers using bitcoin to transfer their wealth to western thus bypass the capital control
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well the sad part is, we cant do much.
despite the whole 2008 crisis, theres no form of protecting our money besides btc being the only option.
Exactly, people are enslaved by the fiat money, but at the same time they are addicted to it
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I thought it was obvious on 4H chart ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif) ![](https://ip.bitcointalk.org/?u=http%3A%2F%2Fphoto.mystisland.org%2F2015%2Fhsr.png&t=663&c=fcUYfytymSlGMA)
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Making money out of thin air, probably, isn't going to solve their problem, they need euros to pay their debts, not magic beans...
Plus, such currency is going to exclude a substantial percentage of the population, older people has difficulty, or cannot do it at all, to deal with new technologies.
Euro itself is also money out of thin air, now ECB is printing 60 billion per month without end in sight. The only difference is that the trust of Euro is higher than drachma due to euro zone is bigger (that is everyone's knowledge about fiat currency: If big country print money, it worth a lot, if small country print money, it worth a little ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif) )
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For private person, government has no real good way and enough resource to trace everyone's wallet, so most likely it will be regulated like cash, limiting maximum daily withdraw and deposit to exchanges, and many people will use it as a medium of saving like gold
However, businesses need to do large transactions, they will be regulated differently, their wallet address must be registered at financial regulators and periodically audited. Accenture has described such a prerequisite for bitcoin to go mainstream
After this, bitcoin will be more formalized and have more government support. But the usage would still be limited at IT people, long term saving and international commerce. Anyway, people will spend inflative fiat money instead of deflative bitcoin, they will not use it at large scale domestically, but they might use it to place international orders online
And every 4 years, following the reward halving, there will be a wave of speculation bubble raise coin's value by many folds. Early adopters start to cash out some coins, and others will be attracted and join the journey to the next reward halving
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Seldom see this in bitcoin bottom, positive sign ![Cool](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
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Once you sell the BTC (or at some defined time after you've taken the loan) you have to pay it back. So the principal of your original trade (minus what you deposited) goes back to the bank/firm. You pay a small fee and then keep the gains off all that you borrowed + deposited. You're getting most of the return off someone elses money. Physical delivery or not is dependent on how you or the firm you work with structures the trade, but it could be either. It's great when the trade goes in your favor. If the trade doesn't go in your favor you can blow yourself up pretty quickly. But if I have deposited €200 and withdrew 10 bitcoin, I might never come back to this exchange, so I guess they have to limit the amount of withdraw to be less than my deposit, e.g. I could withdraw maximum 1 bitcoin in this case, the rest 9 stays in their database, waiting to be wiped out by a margin call I would be weird if you could withdraw more then you actually funded your account for, so should be somewhere like the way you explained. I quess you cannot withdraw untill you paid of your margin part, so you might not even be able to withdraw the one bitcoin you funded untill your margin call is wiped out and youre back to zero on that. So it is only a number game in the platform to wipe out users more quickly, like those Forex bucket shop. Gamblers like it it's nothing more than a secure loan, that exchange give to you, then you use it to make more profit, but if the price don't move you simply give back that loan, so with a 200 deposit and x10 leverage, if the price remain 200, you will end with zero profit but if the price will raise to 210 you will get +100 usd(10 x 10) plus another $10 from your 200 deposit, so 310(200 from your deposit with a net profit of 110) in the end essentially a thing like this aims to encourage trading It is a number game in exchange's database. I have seen Kraken price lower than other exchanges from time to time, maybe a way to trigger the long orders' stop loss, but without leverage they could not wipe out traders at large scale using a margin call
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This has been discussed many times, large miners forming an OPEC-like organization, control the coin supply and set the market price
However, bitcoin is not like petroleum, it can not be consumed, thus the market supply mostly come from existing holders. Even if miners control majority of the daily new coin generation, that's still a small amount comparing with the daily coin cash out from previous owners. And after the next reward halving, their influence will be even less
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Once you sell the BTC (or at some defined time after you've taken the loan) you have to pay it back. So the principal of your original trade (minus what you deposited) goes back to the bank/firm. You pay a small fee and then keep the gains off all that you borrowed + deposited. You're getting most of the return off someone elses money. Physical delivery or not is dependent on how you or the firm you work with structures the trade, but it could be either. It's great when the trade goes in your favor. If the trade doesn't go in your favor you can blow yourself up pretty quickly. But if I have deposited €200 and withdrew 10 bitcoin, I might never come back to this exchange, so I guess they have to limit the amount of withdraw to be less than my deposit, e.g. I could withdraw maximum 1 bitcoin in this case, the rest 9 stays in their database, waiting to be wiped out by a margin call I would be weird if you could withdraw more then you actually funded your account for, so should be somewhere like the way you explained. I quess you cannot withdraw untill you paid of your margin part, so you might not even be able to withdraw the one bitcoin you funded untill your margin call is wiped out and youre back to zero on that. So it is only a number game in the platform to wipe out users more quickly, like those Forex bucket shop. Gamblers like it
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Once you sell the BTC (or at some defined time after you've taken the loan) you have to pay it back. So the principal of your original trade (minus what you deposited) goes back to the bank/firm. You pay a small fee and then keep the gains off all that you borrowed + deposited. You're getting most of the return off someone elses money. Physical delivery or not is dependent on how you or the firm you work with structures the trade, but it could be either. It's great when the trade goes in your favor. If the trade doesn't go in your favor you can blow yourself up pretty quickly. But if I have deposited €200 and withdrew 10 bitcoin, I might never come back to this exchange, so I guess they have to limit the amount of withdraw to be less than my deposit, e.g. I could withdraw maximum 1 bitcoin in this case, the rest 9 stays in their database, waiting to be wiped out by a margin call
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Austrian economics is nonsense. Money is a medium of exchange and nothing else.
Money printers usually like Keynesian economics, because Austrian economics will limit their ability to print money and enslave others However, I don't understand why so many people who don't have the right to print money also appreciate the Keynesian economics, what a mind job ![Grin](https://bitcointalk.org/Smileys/default/grin.gif)
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All those bitcoin start ups have huge amount of bitcoin holding, promoting the bitcoin service will raise the value of bitcoin, thus raise the value of their assets, the service is like advertisement
Anyway this is still a very new branch, everywhere is almost empty, like internet in 90s
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Well. that´s great news and a huge relief especially since in its 2014 annual report the FDIC points out that its whole insurance fund constitutes just a fraction of a percent of all deposits in the system, and that its ‘reserve ratio’ is just 1.01%. So, all that bail-in talk we´ve been hearing is just pointless noise. And the simulation exercises that the U.S. has conducted with the U.K. in recent years a totally useless waste of time.
I guess that no one in government have the slightest idea about what is going on inside banks. Because of this, when things went wrong, they always make the wrong decision, and hit the most trivial part of the system. They bailout the bank by giving them the right to create trillions of dollars, and then banks use those dollars to enslave the nation. They tried to regulate banks, but their bailout is in fact the biggest deregulation
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