You strike me as very young, so you've plenty of time to learn better than this^

There is nothing wrong with rigorous debate, and we have common ground...

So-

Subsidize healthcare -> more healthcare
Subsidize education -> more education
Subsidize infrastructure -> more infrastructure
Subsidize purchasing power -> more purchasing power.

Yes, you're right, I think it's a great idea!

One thing though, why do you have this fixation about people sitting around doing nothing? The people that pay taxes are the ones to benefit from the expenditure of said taxes. How this is done and with what priorities and to what effect is a matter of political processes. The principal however holds. Furthermore subsidizing purchasing-power benefits everyone, not least because of the multiplier effect but also because it means the ability to live for those at the very bottom of the economic pile, those that you so rabidly hate. I have noted that sociopaths often despise the weak.

By the way you do realize that in the normal course of events people can find themselves unemployed for all sorts of reasons, structural unemployment for instance when whole industries go bust or move on, sometimes after many generations where the economic life of entire regions had formed around a now defunct coal or ship-building industry or whatever it is, leaving many thousands of hard-working people whose lives are committed to that region now without work and in competition with each other for whatever employment remains.

Then of course there's seasonal unemployment when those skilled in particular sectors only active for part of the year find their work out of season, or frictional unemployment as has/will probably happen to all of us at some time in life when between jobs for whatever reason. Not to mention people who aren't earning  due to injury, old age, the need to care for dependents, or the various social ravages of history. All these people you seem to despise as wasters, even as you endorse economic ideologies that would cause the employed to be even less secure in their jobs and their incomes to be even more pressurized by the global free-market avarice you so obviously adore.

You can hate the bulk of humanity it's probably your nature, but those involved in society are not unfamiliar with these kinds of issues, that's why they think government and it's behavior a serious and necessary business, not a matter for anarcho-capitalistic buffoonery. Whining like spoiled children that wish not to share their toys. It would be comical if it were not so despicable.


Of course, this is no surprise, it is because you are the enemy. We can tell the enemies of humanity as they tend to be the sick unhinged bastards that would have babies die on a point of principal. The fate of such people is a matter of historical progress.


The image you leave with this last sentence; a wretched grinch-like creature, hunched over its treasure, polishing it's gleaming gold coins in some dank cave somewhere. Oh yes, that's a creature of the Austrian-School all right. You should consider a job at Goldman Sachs, you're their kinda guy.

Other peoples money... you fail to understand that the money they are protesting being handed to the bankers is their money, the taxes they paid to their agent their government to be spent on the society in which they live. Democracy is by no means perfect, it's flawed and messy and corruptible like people always have been, but it's better than rule by dictat or the divine-right you Austro-Schoolers effectively favor.

I didn't mention the poor, nor have I indicated that I am a socialist. Your rabid hatred of the poor and knee-jerk rejection of this thing called society has crowded-out your ability to reason.

Due to the early lines of nonesense- tl;dr.

..

Pentatilde, I like that, but you can call me G.

I agree. In my opinion there is nothing inherently political about bitcoin itself. It's money for fucks sake, everyone likes money, everyone finds it useful.

All the same, no need to keep quiet in the face of Libertards upchucking their psycopathy all over it.

You really are something else, you know that?  There are major pieces of human reality missing inside of your head, this is my honest opinion.

People are protesting against the bankers stealing from the pool of resources their society puts aside to spend on its common goods; schools, roads, healthcare, purchasing power and the like, the kind of services and freedoms that help a society to function that have been won over the years by the common man and womans passion for life through unending political motion and all you can do is piss all over it with your Sociopathic Austrian-School Loonspudery.

I salute the marching Spaniards, they know their rights, they know what's important to them, unlike the hordes of deluded socialism-sneering Randbots they know that government has a purpose markets alone cannot understand, they pay for their government and as such they know that it must always be made to serve them. So they march.

You claim to hate the 'banksters' but all the while you spout the kind of inane guff only the likes of Goldman fucking Sachs or JP shitting Morgan could secretly gleefully approve of. You make me sick.



Hail to the Spanish protesters, they have my sincere respect. Thank fuck somebody's awake.

"No Pasarán!"

Short bitcoin by selling promises to pay the agreed number of bitcoins at a future date. You could sell these promises via paypal so that if you don't honor the agreement, the person that bought your promise will roll their fiat payment to you back via paypal. If bitcoin value goes down, you make a profit. If it goes up, you're fucked.

I believe someone said it was possible to sell bitcoins via ebay, sending a certificate with the sealed private key or some such thing.

Really? So if you have a backup of a wallet.dat, and restore it to another installation of the client elsewhere, perhaps even another version of the client, it won't work?

That's not how monopolies work, they tend not to be run by complete idiots. They raise their prices alright, but not so high as to beg some cocky upstart new-comer to slit their throats.

The fringers voices are doomed to decline. As bitcoin becomes more popular, more and more people that don't have a pathological hatred of government will start to trickle in. Fringers will find themselves increasingly alienated and marginalized in the face of an inevitable onslaught of 'norms'.

Eventually, bitter and disillusioned, the fringers will slink off to Free Republic or john-galt.com or wherever it is they find like-minded others, taking their copies of Atlas Shrugged and their Mises articles and their thousands and thousands of bitcoins with them.

Hey, thousands and thousands of bitcoins is worth something, so it's not a completely crappy deal.

The future belongs to the norms guys. Tax-loving law-embracing norms, because bitcoin will enter the realm of the mainstream.

In terms of my own personal enjoyment of the forum this holds true. But in terms of the bitcoin project itself appearances are important. For every forum reader happy to just ignore loonspuds, there are ten more that are completely put off by the whole idea because of the insane ravings of some internet sociopath that has attached himself to bitcoin.

Quiet acceptance of this sort of thing is bad for the image. I'm one of those that want bitcoin to succeed, and not be tripped up by too high a bullshit ratio on its forums

threadjack done.

D minus. Leaves a lot to be desired.

Competition's great for innovation and choice, but at heart capitalism abhors competition because it is not as profitable as collusion or total market conquest. Keeping a market on it's toes can produce many benefits but if left to a market without rules the sensible capitalist would price-out as many competitors as possible and come to some sort of understanding or game with those that remain. Competition doesn't always lead to monopolies, sometimes it leads to oligopolies or cartels.

A good capitalist cannot be blamed for maximizing profit and seeking to not only beat the competition, but to eliminate competition altogether. A good capitalist is looking to make as much profit as possible, not uphold some sort of deluded principal about competition for its own sake being a virtue. I believe competition is a good thing but a capitalist is deluded if s/he thinks that's what they're supposed to focus on every day when they turn up to work. There is after all such a thing as fiduciary responsibility. If you like competition and believe it's good then you've no business being on the board of directors of some firm somewhere. Well you can be an director and like competition but only in your spare time, at work- your job is to see competition as the enemy.

If you were the director of a company in which I had considerable interests and you did not intend to wipe out the competition and maximize profits, frankly I would want you replaced. You do not turn up to a street brawl with a giant inflatable hammer. Business is not some sort of gentleman's game, at least not if you're taking it seriously.

To preserve the benefits of competition we do not allow capitalists to have everything their own way. We have laws designed to try and keep markets in their most competitive, innovative and choice giving state (just ask Microsoft) and capitalists work within these bounds at making the profits and taking no prisoners. They don't need to have their jobs confused by having to work toward two mutually conflicting ends. When they lobby against various regulations they are doing so to maximize their profits, not because

[fairy voice]competition is great, yaay![/fairy voice].

It's their job, and thank fuck somebody actually knows what they're trying to do here.

This is just one of the various necessary roles that government plays above the market. To fail to grasp these facts of life is... almost child-like.

Tell you what, that can be your assignment. See if you can find out what strange mysterious force might be preventing monopolies from forming in the reality we know today and report back here.

eMansipator is a diplomatic non-confrontational communicator type person, it's just his/her apparent nature, and in my opinion is a good and useful thing. However I think we do need a harder line against such posts expressed through free speech. Murderous/bigotted/conspiraloon type attitudes need to be confronted (strongly) in the public arena. A bitcoin-awakening world should be assumed to be watching at all times.

At the end of the day it's what the forum community chooses to do about it. If people don't mind this kind of talk passing without strongly-opposed comment, well then that's all part of the bitcoin package. If bitcoin ultimately fails then perhaps it's for the best in the eyes of the wider world if bitcoins strongest proponants were happy to have talk of people being lined up and shot as useless wastes of resources pass with an indifferent/softline shrug. It could be said "well, perhaps we dodged a bullet after all, who needs some weird genocidal anarcho-swarm rocking the boat with their funny-money anyway, revolutionaries are always so shooty and judgemental, fuck em".

Just my 2 toshi.

No. competition leads eventually to the winner, once all other competitors have been crushed, the winner takes it all. Long ago people realized that this kind of world sucks, the private states of kings have since been revolutionized away, or their powers reduced or externalized or sidelined from political relevance. Well, except in parts of the Middle East etc.

Law (and human rights for that matter) is not a game for competition. We have democracies and republics because Law is more than a matter of buying shit. When was the last time Apple asked for your vote? They don't need to, if you like what they are selling you buy it if not you dont, and that's fine as far as it goes. Society itself however is more than a market place. The inequalities that competition by nature produce can cause serious instability in society, addressing such instabilities is a matter for the political processes and political power structures, not commercial ones.

...or 'competative' wages, prices or standards levied by an emergent monopolistic/monopsonistc monster unfettered by any form of politcal decision because wallet-voting is naively assumed by useful idiots to be enough for the common man and woman to get by in the complex muli-tiered web of assosiations that make up modern society.