It looks wonderful, congrats  When will you release the final version? |
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oh cmon! we definitely dont need PoS!
Can I know the reasons for your argument. Thanks . Copypasting some wise words(its about pure PoS coins but still worth reading): "Proof of Stake coins have many issues here are some: PoS is not backed by anything other than the belief there are worth anything and there will be an endless supply of PoS coins because one created today does not have a significant advantage over on created tomorrow, next week, next month....... What currently is happening is new coins are created with PoW, mined for a week until a fixed number is reached and then change to PoS and then you can claim your stake at buying xyz coin. The only advantage a coin released today has over on made sometime in the future is; somebody already bought into it. The advantage quickly disappears if the new coin has a better catch phrase a flashier webpage or bigger marketing capital.... There is no end in sight for stake claimed coins and all promising x % return if you know a bit of programming you will have your very one coin too and everyone can buy into your claim based coin completely deluding the marked. Its a barrel without bottom and once it clicks by the herd run for the hills if you own a stake. With a PoS the richer get richer. The most significant flaw of any proof-of-stake system and any system that diminishes coin rewards, is it can't distribute currency from the hoarders to the users of the currency, thus it will end up with the hoarders (the banksters) accumulating all the coin and the currency usage dying. This is because the wealthy spend a much lower % of their net worth than the masses do PoS is a technological dead end. Once the coin is released the only thing to do is "claim your stake" no research, no new capital outside the buy in, no evolving industry.. PoS can NEVER remain decentralized. Satoshi's Proof-of-Work is the only known solution to the Byzantine General's Problem (was a known unsolved problem since at least the 1970s). To 51% PoS is dead easy: You start buying aggressively or "willy" style until you have 51% of a PoS coin, and then sell off your coins so that you no longer have 51%, but your history of having once owned 51% makes it possible to attack the network at any time in the future at next to no cost only some computing resources (and thus electricity costs, etc.). As you once had a 51% stake, you can build a better blockchain than the other 49% can, starting from the point where you owned 51%. You develop this blockchain in secret, after you have sold off your coins (and profiting from it); and then release your secret blockchain to the world, and nodes will pick it up because it carries more stake than the 49% blockchain. Now not only do you have your profit from the original sales of the coin, you have your 51% back (to the extent that it's worth anything). Not all coins need to be in one address, in fact, doing so would prevent the attack in most PoS implementations. Unlike bitcoin where everyone can see if anyone comes dangerously close to 51, in PoS its all hidden, an attack can and will happen incognito. There is no way of knowing if any PoS chain is already "dead", as it could have been done at any-time in the past.. But then there's is also the social 51% attack where a tiny majority hold a massive percentage of the currency. When this occurs the market is open to extensive manipulation for the benefit of the few, as with real world economics (the 1%). NXT is a good example of the social 51% attack, the top 33 accounts hold 51% between them. The top 50 accounts hold 61.2%. I'm quite sure the top 1% of accounts (400 ish) hold almost everything, with the other 99% playing with spare change. PoW is a promise that x amount of energy has and will be used to make the coinis backed by energy, and energy is the only truly universally accepted wealth. There is no better backing than energy because everyone needs it, wants it and i will never have any problem selling it. To create a PoW coin you need x amount of energy and you can not cheat. The best you can hope for is to have a more efficient miner. Because the energy has been spent, the coin has a base value (many other things on top) and is a kind of a storage of it which you can exchange. (The same apply's for gold digging it up, storing..... only difference is it is awkward to exchange) Remember u can't create something without work. This is simple physics. There is financial commitment in proof of work which gives it value." Lets come to SFR first. I never said that make SFR a pure POS coin, but add POS on top of it. Which can be useful as small transactions can be done by POS, which will be fast, so that to promote real life daily usage of SFR and total supply can be divided between POS and POW. Who are you calling hoarders are actually investors. If investors see anything useful they will buy it and you can't stop them. But the 51% attack is not a problem with SFR because investors can never hold that much as it will be mined slowly. Also for the sake of argument POS became popular because as you said energy is very important and mine-able coins use lot of energy to produce. Even if you look at bitcoin there are only about 1000 individuals who hold 50% of market. The important thing for any coin is to get accepted, as even POW coins are easy to make and there are so many of them. To get accepted you need volume and for volume you need to be popular and you can only make your coin popular by fulfilling market requirements. How many coins do you think really has a real life use and why do I need crypto currency for daily transactions? Bitcoin was made to decentralise finance market and ease the international payments. In a way there are not many % population that mine, so why does miners get all the reward? and they can also keep mining and hoard a large amount of coins. Right now miners will keep mining and dumping to investors but why will I buy a coin if I see its value decreasing due to constant increase in supply of coin? If money is involved in anything than obviously who invest, will want returns from it. Crypto currency can become truly decentralised if every person on this earth is able to mine but if everyone will be able to mine than the coin will loose value, so there will be no buyers. So my friend if you want SFR to survive than "all the stakeholder" should get benefit from it, otherwise it will die as soon as it wakes up like other mineable coins with endless supply. Investors will invest when it see the value rising in future, miner will mine if they see investors buying it, other people will use it if they see coin popular and easily exchangeable. Everything is related. So POS is as important as POW and low inflation. Thanks for your reply. |
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oh cmon! we definitely dont need PoS!
Can I know the reasons for your argument. Thanks . |
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The best features to adopt are from VRC CLOAK and XC atm. Imho, XC has the best features as a "currency" compared to the others. They announced OneWallet card in tangent with an ATM system, more info here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=630547.new#new. If you guys can implement the best features from the coins mentioned, and maybe give it your own twist and not just copy and paste, SFR would be the best. Just my thoughts. And above all, marketing is the most important. If you create the best coin there is and nobody finds out about it, its as good as dead. Hiring a professional marketing team maybe? +1. I think market these days catches good ones automatically. If we have good features and features which are in demand , it will create volume, if SFR volume nobody can ignore it. But yeah may be at later stage marketing team might be necessary. |
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In fact I would say it's time to make our coin rewarding for both miners and investors by adding POS on top of POW. Like coin Viking suggested POS network can be used for small and faster transactions which can be used for day to day shopping etc and POW network for large transactions. You can divide supply equally between two and miners can have extra benefit if they keep their coins instead of dumping and investors like me can also get some rewards by keeping my coins and contribute to network.
Including POS from start is ok but hardforking and including POS could break the coin. We need to decide on this with a cool head and have ample amount of time. Right now we do not have that much time. POS could be more of a medium term feature since it has to be implemented very carefully from a technical point of view. For now we need to implement features that make digital currency payment easy for people and make SFR not just a coin to buy low and sell high. Okay no problem if you even do it in med term it will be good but at least it would be better if you reduce daily supply. It will help SFR to attract more investors. |
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In fact I would say it's time to make our coin rewarding for both miners and investors by adding POS on top of POW. Like coin Viking suggested POS network can be used for small and faster transactions which can be used for day to day shopping etc and POW network for large transactions. You can divide supply equally between two and miners can have extra benefit if they keep their coins instead of dumping and investors like me can also get some rewards by keeping my coins and contribute to network.
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Wow wonderful Dev and I would recommend that you take some steps for supply side as well, most of the community is asking it for long time. Other than that great to hear this.
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I think full GUI will be better.
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I would love something like the "onemarket" projected by Cloakcoin.
+1. And maybe something like Veribit from VRC. Together with a OneMarket concept, this would be huge. Verisend is also a good concept Btw if you notice Vericoin is developing all the things that helps ease real life payments, weather it is Veribit, Verisend, android wallet or Fiat/Vericoin exchange in wallet plus its a POS coin. If it also implements anonymity, this coin can easily surpass Darkcoin Mcap or may be in future it will you never know . +1. Creating a SFR/BTC feature to spend SFR wherever BTC is accepted is essential (This is more or less what VeriBit does). VeriSend is the anon system if Im not mistaken, which SFR devs will be implementing their anon soon as mentioned on the roadmap. The OneMarket Cloak, is a decentralize Marketplace where one can buy good/services using Cloak. I believe they will integrate this into the wallet as well. Yes sorry verisend is a anonymity feature I confused it with something I read where you can send coins using mobile number of receiver, I don't know which coin does it. Well if our dev is able to add all these features, it will be huge for SFR but it should be done fast as new things are coming everyday and we are already behind. |
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I would love something like the "onemarket" projected by Cloakcoin.
+1. And maybe something like Veribit from VRC. Together with a OneMarket concept, this would be huge. Verisend is also a good concept Btw if you notice Vericoin is developing all the things that helps ease real life payments, weather it is Veribit, Verisend, android wallet or Fiat/Vericoin exchange in wallet plus its a POS coin. If it also implements anonymity, this coin can easily surpass Darkcoin Mcap or may be in future it will you never know . |
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I would love something like the "onemarket" projected by Cloakcoin.
+1. And maybe something like Veribit from VRC. Together with a OneMarket concept, this would be huge. Verisend is also a good concept |
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Coin Viking I agree with you that POW is very important for SFR, but if we want wider adoption of SFR than not just miners, there should be something for others as well. We want SFR to succeed in long term and these things are very important for long term. Also its important that investors investment does not dilute too much by number of coins created daily. These small changes now will help SFR in long term. I am an investor, I have never minted a single coin in my life coz I don't have knowledge for it. Miners can keep mining and increase their share but I will need money to buy at market price, so I will want POS as I can still keep my % share by just keeping coins in my wallet and also contribute to the network.
For SFR I think POW and POS on top of it will be good, 50/50 supply for both. Also darkcoin's reward structure is good, if its possible to implement that. Our coin is really good and we can make it best. Other features like anonymity and all are also important these days.
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Just noticed an interesting thing in Vertcoin "Stealth address implementation announcement thread". People are complaining about the reward structure and block halving there. Vertcoin has about only 6 million coins in circulation in "six months" time period. Currently about only 576 vertcoins are minted daily, which amount to about 0.3 BTC dumping per day and people are still upset about it. They are saying that devs are too ignorant to change block halving which is currently 4 years. SFR has total 110 million coins , approximately 70k coins are minted daily and at current prices it amounts to around 0.5 BTC. That is way more than VTC. The point is to draw interest of investors we need to do something sooner about the supply and reward system, so that miners dumping don't affect the price. Price is the main thing that investors are interested in as if they are loosing money in their investment, they will never invest.
it's suppose to be 28 800 VTC mined each day and a big part of those are mined by multipools dumping them after. 50 Vtc/ block, 2.5 mins/block Yeah done a bit mistake there, sorry. Thank you for correction. |
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Just noticed an interesting thing in Vertcoin "Stealth address implementation announcement thread". People are complaining about the reward structure and block halving there. Vertcoin has about only 6 million coins in circulation in "six months" time period. Currently about only 576 vertcoins are minted daily, which amount to about 0.3 BTC dumping per day and people are still upset about it. They are saying that devs are too ignorant to change block halving which is currently 4 years. SFR has total 110 million coins , approximately 70k coins are minted daily and at current prices it amounts to around 0.5 BTC. That is way more than VTC. The point is to draw interest of investors we need to do something sooner about the supply and reward system, so that miners dumping don't affect the price. Price is the main thing that investors are interested in as if they are loosing money in their investment, they will never invest.
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MAKE it down to 55 millions coin then POS
9-12% POS to secure the network.
block time 60-120secs is better.
People like fast and that easy for mobile use as payment option also.
It will not be a good idea to make it full POS but yeah POS can be added on top of it with a very low rate of interest say for example between 2-5 % per year. But the reduced supply could be structured in a way that it takes more than 100 years to mine the remaining coins. |
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Coin viking I think 180 secs will be too slow, In fact I was about to say reduce block reward by 75% and block time by 50%( only if its possible and viable option). But yeah supply is too much and network can be secured by the POS as well by just opening as well. There are so many coins now that even 50 million looks so high that nobody will buy it for more. It is an disadvantage for any coin to constantly increase supply, We can also use some formula in which difficulty will be inversely related to supply, so more the difficulty and lesser the coins, with maximum per day to half less than current supply. We can also reduce the total supply. Lets start the discussion with community, whatever everybody decides we can go ahead with that.
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Cant login ?
What happen ??
Working fine for me, just checked by logging in again. I put signature , but cant login ? m6500 pm me please ? It says this user has not activated the SFRMS. May be you can try re activating it. |
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Cant login ?
What happen ??
Working fine for me, just checked by logging in again. |
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Okay, no problem.The notification in this case becomes very important as the message self destroys after sometime.
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ANy one have SFr address ?
I want to try SPOOF
Address? You need to verify your own address. If you are asking about alias, mine is sfrdev. You can send me a message just by knowing my alias Dev what about the alias address book? Can we save contacts or not? That hasn't been included now. It will be in the final release. Okay thanks, I also have a suggestion, is it possible to get notification when we receive any message, like we get notifications for transactions, as we are not always looking at wallet. |
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