AND why?Just 1 thing, for I it would be transaction times, cause waiting for those confirmations is wayy too long sometimes  To be clear...are you referring to improving one thing about Bitcoin the technology or the ecosystem in general? From a tech perspective: Bitcoin core, blockchain and user interface comprehensive security measures From a broader ecosystem perspective: Bitcoin Branding, Marketing, PR and Media Relations |
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The Bitcoin ecosystem is such a challenging concept to many...so much of this new world order is complex, cryptic and intangible. People tend to really enjoy holding onto physical representations. Casascius coins are perhaps the most beautiful and tangible representations of Bitcoin as currency. Here are examples of the 0.1 BTC, 0.5 BTC and 1 BTC all silver editions...  |
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Looking for a 5BTC Casascius coin...in case anyone wants to put together a trade.
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Hello BTC community, I'm looking to sell a few coins. I'm not sure what to ask for them so just make an offer.
10 BTC All Silver MS-67
5 BTC with hologram error MS-66
5 BTC without error MS-66
I will put pictures up soon - please make your offers on this board here or message me. I am willing to send first if you have good trust or use a well known escrow.
Can you provide funding date on 10 BTC coin please...look forward to seeing images... |
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If I recalled correctly, Mike's markup on the 2011 coins were around 0.2-0.5, can anyone confirm this?
Im pretty sure it was much higher. Bitcoin was still around a couple dollars each, with the coin, cost of BTC on the coin, etc. I think they were a few bitcoin. Correct me if I'm wrong. From Mike's original sale thread - man those were shiny!!   Still building the web content to sell these online. These turned out sweet! Until then, supply shipping info and ask me in PM for a PGP signed bitcoin payment address. These are a REAL BITCOIN each worth 1 BTC. One side has a hologram. Underneath the hologram layer is a private key. The first 8 characters of the bitcoin address appears on each coin. Current pricing: 1.25 BTC per coin for up to 10 coins. 1.20 BTC per coin for up to 100 coins. Add 1.00 BTC for shipping (any quantity, and it will be sent USPS Priority Mail insured for our mutual protection). Outside US, please let me do some research to find out the best way to ship these (as they are heavy in quantity and I prefer to ship them insured). Just gotta be an MS68 in there somewhere...  |
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How much for this coin? I don't see an asking price...
Considering offers...have had several thus far, but coin has not yet sold... |
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Great time to pick up Casascius...
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Have had several offers, but not sold yet...
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Thread skewed off topic...may relist at some point.
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A new question for the OP - what makes you think a Bitcoin has a future comparable to Google's past performance?
Don't believe I ever said it did...I indicated that the values were comparable at that moment in time...and I linked their current valuations. As the ol' investing disclaimer suggests; past performance is no indicator of future results. Using Bitcoin as purely an investment undermines the original purpose of Bitcoin, no? It's a currency to be spent for goods and services. As this spending increases the price volatility should settle and as more coins are mined (and supply goes up) the price to USD should go down, right?
It would seem to me that the "purpose of Bitcoin" (and perhaps more importantly the Blockchain) is far from established...and is in fact just beginning to reveal and manifest itself. No need to preempt possibilities...which at the moment are rather exponential. There is no doubt that the ecosystem is growing. Bitcoin Venture Capital is soaring at rates not seen since the Internet Angel boom in 1994. Can you cite any sources to support your claim that VC interest is "soaring at rates not seen since 1994"? Got about 100 more sources where these came from...not the least of which are Angels I work with around the world... http://moneymorning.com/2014/06/16/venture-capitalists-are-investing-in-bitcoin-at-the-fastest-pace-to-date/http://www.coindesk.com/marc-andreessen-balaji-srinivasan-discuss-bitcoin/http://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-venture-capital/https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9qJO2tNL3sIf GOOG was appreciating as much as Bitcoin every year and you could buy things with it, why would you hold fiat?
If you convert every paycheck to bitcoins then that money appreciates before you spend it.
If you do not convert every paycheck then that fiat just loses value until you spend it.
What about the last year? BTC is down over 50% (to USD) from it's high mark within the last 12 months. When you change the size of the frame the picture looks a bit different. Near-term risk is indeed very real, with markets established as they are right now. I know of quite a few people that have lost quite a bit of fiat on paper since jumping into Bitcoin late last year...much current VC interest is in infrastructure and building the ecosystem and support structures and not in BTC-direct purchases. The position held by some folks appears to be that Bitcoin appreciates, therefore there is no point in holding fiat, but that is of course...not a guarantee at the moment. Depreciation of fiat on the other hand...does seem to be a spiraling guarantee. I recall a time...barely...when dollars would actually buy more overseas from time to time...rather than ever-less. DeathAndTaxes provided nice bigger-picture perspective on BTC valuation trending... https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=716258.msg8106799#msg8106799 |
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OK--it's time for a poll. Just added...let's get scientific...
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The longer term view is most helpful in this discussion. Not sure I completely agree with the last point, given that micro-ecosystems can suffer from their own devices, regardless of surrounding environments. But the information you provide is exactly the kind of factual offset I've been looking for...things are not always what they seem and it's important to keep perspective in a Bitcoin world where people measure years of progress in weeks or months.
Despite the spam and mining reasoning you provided...I find the 7000% to 20% year-over-year volume growth statistic fascinating...this seems to lend itself to the possibility of increased quality versus quantity transactions.
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This shows that at the current float, only about 3-4% of all BTC is moving daily...what then, is the other 96% doing...?
I think you might have some unrealistic expectations about the velocity of money... So based on this analysis, would you say that you are quite comfortable with current BTC circulation velocity? Perhaps what is most disconcerting from my point of view is the trending decrease in transaction activity, despite the recent meteoric rise in new users. The fundamentals of saving notwithstanding, the concern would be that given Bitcoin's unique nature...too much hoarding could potentially lead to a spiraling version of Keynesian Paradox of Thrift. |
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I'd like to see evidence, hard evidence suggesting that people are not hoarding their BTC. SHOW ME, don't tell me that it's a fallacy that people won't spend an appreciating currency...numbers, charts, graphs, maths, trends, facts. Need more than Bitcoin bias...of which I already have plenty myself. I'd love nothing more...
 Agreed--this is from the MIT Report that I referenced in an earlier post...and initially seemed to address new Bitcoins only (this link shows updated language in lower left chart). This was later amended in the comments section, but still unclear as chart only seems to reference transactions within certain timeframes after initial mining...or after acquisition? This is the only piece of evidence I could find that points towards trending BTC spending versus hoarding...although even this chart states that a US shutdown sparked hoarding in October 2013, causing a price spike. Now let's talk about all coins generally...circulated coins if you will. The Blockchain charts paint a very different picture. With roughly 5 million BTC users, and transaction volume around 60,000 per day, we're looking at 1 transaction every three months per user...not exactly a vibrant economy. The total output volume chart down-trending is especially troubling: https://blockchain.info/charts/output-volume This shows that at the current float, only about 3-4% of all BTC is moving daily...what then, is the other 96% doing...? And keep in mind, that even of this 3-4%, not all of it is necessarily being spent...much of this volume is likely day-trading, and some transactions are users just moving their own BTC from one wallet to another wallet they own. Regardless, I suppose the larger question we should be addressing generally is...Why don't more people spend Bitcoin, and what will it take to change current trends? To clarify assertions made earlier, I've never stated that no one will spend an appreciating currency, but it does seem like Bitcoin's appreciative nature is causing a large portion of the user base to hoard. Now to address these comments made on a couple of occasions:
Putting all of that aside, the implied argument that you seem to be making is that people won't spend an appreciating currency. That's easily proven false in two ways:
1) Computers/technology. People could wait until next year to get an even better, faster computer with more features for the same price. Yet they buy computers today. How can you explain that when their purchasing power is increasing over time? Obviously, increasing purchasing power does not discourage people from buying pieces of technology.
2) Investments/stocks. Anyone can easily increase their purchasing power over time by investing into stocks, mutual funds, real estate, etc. Yet, many choose not to. How can you explain the fact that people are buying ANYTHING beyond what is absolutely necessary to survive when they could instead be increasing their purchasing power by investment?
The whole argument that people won't spend an appreciating currency sounds great on the surface, but is really just a complete fallacy.
You are talking about Moore's Law--the cost of a unit decreases exponentially over time. People want instant gratification, or moreover...have a need that must be fulfilled near-term, like needing a new computer. The consumer gratification created by purchasing the product is enough to overcome the potential for increased purchasing power down the road...sometimes, other times people do wait, often for years before buying that new car or computer, until the product/technology reaches maturity and prices bottom out a bit. Not sure this applies seamlessly to spending or saving BTC. Perhaps a more appropriate comparison would be to trading or holding quickly appreciating stocks. I can't speak to why some people do or don't invest in stocks, real estate et al...we'd have to ask those people. What I can say is that people buy and do things that don't increase their purchasing power for myriad reasons. None of which explain the technical trends regarding BTC hoarding that seem to be apparent in the Blockchain charts. People seem to be viewing Bitcoin as a good long-term speculative investment and hodling (sorry, couldn't help myself), and they are generally choosing to make their purchases by some other means...for now. |
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Guaranteed by who?
Nobody hence the "if". The OP claim was based around the idea that BTC will increase in value and hence nobody will spend it which is still a flawed assumption. DeathAndTaxes...understand your position (and very much respect your perspective btw, have learned much from your past posts), held by many staunch Bitcoin advocates...now can you provide some hard evidence please to help everyone understand how and why this is the case? OP has several links, data, articles and other evidence that seem to suggest that people are currently hoarding BTC. Is there a resource of some kind that can fulfill the request I made to SgtSpike below... Agreed assuming appreciation...and if Bitcoin depreciates short term (relative to fiat)? To be clear--I'm not saying people won't spend an appreciating currency...I'm saying that the evidence is suggesting that they're not spending an appreciating currency. If you haven't already, take a moment to read this article linked in OP: Bitcoin's Failed Coup of Wall StreetNot taking any hard stance here btw. The point is to spark discussion from experts and everyday users alike to address a very real concern held and raised by many. We can all agree that it's a new world order...Bitcoin is unlike anything anyone has ever seen, so perspective is important. I'd like to see evidence, hard evidence suggesting that people are not hoarding their BTC. SHOW ME, don't tell me that it's a fallacy that people won't spend an appreciating currency...numbers, charts, graphs, maths, trends, facts. Need more than Bitcoin bias...of which I already have plenty myself. I'd love nothing more... |
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You're still not getting it. If BTC is GUARANTEED to appreciate compared to fiat, then why hold any fiat at all? Assume a world where everything you could ever want to purchase is purchasable with Bitcoin.
Assuming Bitcoin appreciation, there is no reason to say that "fiat should be used for more routine purchases". Why would you say that? What makes fiat better for routine purposes than Bitcoin? The fact that Bitcoin can appreciate, so you might be missing out on appreciation because you spent it? Ok, so why not have all of your money in Bitcoin and just use it as needed? Then, at least you can enjoy short-term appreciation until the Bitcoin is spent.
Putting all of that aside, the implied argument that you seem to be making is that people won't spend an appreciating currency. That's easily proven false in two ways:
1) Computers/technology. People could wait until next year to get an even better, faster computer with more features for the same price. Yet they buy computers today. How can you explain that when their purchasing power is increasing over time? Obviously, increasing purchasing power does not discourage people from buying pieces of technology.
2) Investments/stocks. Anyone can easily increase their purchasing power over time by investing into stocks, mutual funds, real estate, etc. Yet, many choose not to. How can you explain the fact that people are buying ANYTHING beyond what is absolutely necessary to survive when they could instead be increasing their purchasing power by investment?
The whole argument that people won't spend an appreciating currency sounds great on the surface, but is really just a complete fallacy.
Agreed assuming appreciation...and if Bitcoin depreciates short term (relative to fiat)? To be clear--I'm not saying people won't spend an appreciating currency...I'm saying that the evidence is suggesting that they're not spending an appreciating currency. If you haven't already, take a moment to read this article linked in OP: Bitcoin's Failed Coup of Wall StreetNot taking any hard stance here btw. The point is to spark discussion from experts and everyday users alike to address a very real concern held and raised by many. We can all agree that it's a new world order...Bitcoin is unlike anything anyone has ever seen, so perspective is important. I'd like to see evidence, hard evidence suggesting that people are not hoarding their BTC. SHOW ME, don't tell me that it's a fallacy that people won't spend an appreciating currency...numbers, charts, graphs, maths, trends, facts. Need more than Bitcoin bias...of which I already have plenty myself. I'd love nothing more... |
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