I don't speak Russian at all but the video looks very professional and quite flash. The 3D rendering is very substantial looking and makes for good presentation.

"respect"...RESPECT!....are you a complete moron? You wouldn't know respect if it ate you for breakfast.

Okay, so why don't you respond to the truth?

His game seems to be to pop-up every page or two and peddle his ongoing lies and falsehood.

It's good you're combating it.

Perhaps if you (and others) just post this every time he posts his bullshit, it will eventually wear him down seeing his name posted and being reminded of what he is/what he's done.

You really are obnoxious person Eduardo coming in here and pushing this line you do considering how badly you've scammed your customers. The stench of hypocrisy is just overwhelming.

You are hilarious Mangled! (and your ability to convey a subtle message is sophisticated!)

I just love the last 10 seconds of that video. Man that was funny!

Just having a minor chuckle about the various responses to your post bigrcanada. It's sort of like when you go along with your kids to see a cute Disney film and everyone enjoys it and the whole family's laughing and having fun. Then the next day you're at the office telling a co-worker about it and you get this massive lecture about how the Walt Disney Corporation is this totally evil and insidiously malevolent cult that's been brain-washing us and our kids for decades and their ultimate aim is world domination and control of every piece of 'entertainment' content, and that we should all be avoiding such corporate command & control hypnotism at all costs, yada yada. You stand there hearing about all this evil and how you've potentially been manipulated thinking "Aw gee....I just thought it was really fun film...."

Oh good. And what is "the great news"?

It's been a week since anyone's posted. What's happening? Surely someone has something to report?

Where on earth did you get that silly notion from?

That lady is Jade Thompson. She is known for her freckles and they're clearly visible in every photo of her. It's not "postproduction" it's how she is (and an absolute beauty I think too).

http://www.blownavenue.com/jade-l-thompson-shoot-winner-of-britain-and-ireland-next-top-model-hair-by-carmen-amelia/

One wonders whether the Japanese authorities have done extensive forensic analysis and now have enough evidence to be sure he's implicitly involved in the 'theft" of bitcoin as opposed to the story of hackers having taken the 200,000 (or whatever it was claimed to be)

or

whether they're just under so much pressure to "do something" they've just caved, arrested him and will be working on the assumption that everyone will pretty much believe "he done it" therefore they (the authorities) will be off the hook somewhat.

My gut instinct tells me it's more likely to be the latter.

No one's "promoting" but sometimes when people come here and argue with long-term fundamentals of the type someone like Toknormal articulates, there's a valid debate to be had. "Exhibit A" above is the position g4q34g4qg47ww has taken with Tok's stance on monetary properties (and it's an extremely adversarial position that he needs to justify). It's entirely appropriate for that debate to be had because it's fundamentally important for anyone comparing Dash to Monero (or to the crypto note coins in general).

I think we certainly need to ignore the blatant never-ending trollism of people like Eduardo-iceshitter but some of the Monero people that come in here do put up points that are worth debating and they're not all bad points.

As for this

It's next to completely useless as an action. Even their blatant lies and damning mis-statements aren't ever addressed yet valid posts by others about world events (such as the Greek situation) and it's relevance to Dash are. Bottom line is it's not "our" forum and the rules are set by someone else.

This has been a tremendously entertaining and interesting exchange Toknormal and g4q34g4qg47ww.

One of my pet hates is when people refer to their "expertise" (or suggested expertise) because of some level of academic achievement when they're in a forum that's attempting to solve problems that have been facilitated and catered for by some of the world's "top experts" in the field we're discussing; people who potentially have hung their entire careers off of the very same academic achievement.


What I mean g4q34g4qg47ww is that Bitcoin and crypto in general (amongst other goals) is attempting to address the utter debt fueled/highly manipulated currency mess and resulting economic fiasco that our fiat-based central banking charlatans have created. And much of this realm has been catered to and provided for by top notch 'economists' who've used their 'background in economics / finance' to take the world to even greater levels of unsustainability and madness. I bet many dozens, if not hundreds (or thousand even) work at the Fed and the ECB. It's these people and their "thinking" on what money is and how it works that's done such irreparable damage.

So when you talk about your background in economics/finance giving you the tools to decipher that Toknormal is a charlatan spouting self-serving non-sense, I perceive that you're likely to be from a background that's part of the problem not the solution. Frankly if you now told us you have a PhD in Economics from Harvard you would go down in my estimation even more. It's Harvard, Wall Street, the Fed and all those greedy up-themselves individuals that are very much responsible for the drama we're experiencing and the travesty/tragedy yet to happen. What's needed are people with fresh thinking, a diverse and out-of-the-box education and an ability to think logically without constant need of validation by traditional schools-of-thought.

Unless you can come up with very specific, succinct and logical rebuttals to Toknormal's views (i.e. why the hidden balances on Monero's blockchain that Tok's pointing out is such a flawed approach in attempting to create a store of value that's 'money' is in fact NOT the problem he's saying it is), in my mind you're the one with the dubious claims. Just stating over and over again that


is pointless because all those 'sources' are often part of the problem as I've indicated. Toknormal is offering points of view on 'money' that you (and Monero people in general) don't like because it doesn't fit with your narrative of how a crypto should work (read: it doesn't fit with your narrative of how Monero works). That doesn't mean he's wrong and it certainly doesn't mean he's wrong if he doesn't provide you with a 'source' of someone defining money this way. But if you believe him to be as wrong as you're suggesting, state for us why he's wrong in as logical and fundamental fashion as Toknormal does when he's articulating his views on how this stuff works.

In other words, use logic and reason to demonstrate why hidden balances on a block chain are indeed NOT a problem in terms of Monero being 'money'. I understand this is no easy task but you've called Toknormal a charlatan for expressing these views and you've suggested they're easily negated by anyone that knows about economics and finance so you need to back-up what you're saying with something substantial.

Okay....I'm looking forward to your detailed explanation (i.e. put up or shut up).

You are too funny too! (but not in the same way as Toknormal....)

You are too funny!

Yes agreed...


...but the key properties I just mentioned (divisibility, fungability, trust, stability and convertability) still apply, even to cigarettes in a jail.

I think the Monero people are just like so many 'technologists' (using that term rather loosely), they get all caught up in the technical aspects of their particular development and get all anal and short-sighted about it with very strong emotional attachment, attacking people that build something different because they're so insecure, and forgetting the main quest and objective we're all trying to achieve.

(the Backpage.com story is fascinating....watching that one.....interestingly they still take credit cards down here in Australia)

I think you're flogging a dead horse here Tok!

Don't you know "it's all different now..." and "the previous rules on human behaviour around the storage of monetary value are being completely rewritten because of crypto...." and " with 'private' crypto those rules are even more unknown...."

Yes sir...the 'laws' on monetary value and key properties like divisibility, fungability, trust, stability and convertability are all going out the window. It's a brave new world....

Smooth, I think you're dead wrong.

Toknormal's opinions DO matter because they're logical and sensible. When you work though what he's been saying for a long time now about the properties of money it's clearly fundamental, ordered and without the gaping holes you could drive a truck though that characterise much of what you and other Monero people keep pushing.

By comparison with Tok's views, the silliness and rhetoric we see coming from you and many others involved in Monero just doesn't stand up to a sensible and ordered assessment of logic.

There doesn't need to be "an independent source" there just needs to be THINKING that's not tainted by bravado, bloody-mindedness and the BS that's clearly part and parcel of everything you wretched people banging on about Monero just can't stop yourselves from doing.

Having wasted more than an hour watching fluffypony's video presentation of Monero, I'm in no mood to cut you any slack, even though I acknowledge that on occasions you do make sensible posts; you've unfortunately saddled up on a dud horse and the faster you realise it's stopped breathing, the faster you'll be able to apply your talents to something more useful.

GO HOME AND WORK ON A GUI WALLET FOR GOODNESS SAKE!

Yes, with watching the video, noting the times Riccardo said certain things and noting them down for a summary of the overall "hogwashiness" of what he's presenting, I'd say I spent a good hour on it. That's an hour I won't be getting back; but it's cemented in my mind just how lacking in substance the Monero people are (in general; I'm sure there's some goodness there too) and how flawed their offering is.

I've never heard anyone from Monero give a presentation so I thought I'd spend the time watching and listening to this to get a first hand feel.

It's starting to become clear now why so many of the Monero people spend so much time coming into this thread and trying to discredit Dash and the Dash community; with this sort of "leadership" they're so unsure of themselves and the horse they've backed; attack is indeed the only possible action.

My impression is that Riccardo Spagni (aka "fluffypony") is a very lightweight wannabe-pundit who clearly has serious holes in his understanding and knowledge of what's key to making a cryptocurrency an actual 'currency'. And furthermore his flippant style of presentation and offhanded sarcasm is terribly unprofessional and lacking in substance.

Some segments in the video really highlight how flawed is much of the approach and how little thought has gone into the really important stuff.

17:25 Regulatory compliance. Riccardo talks about how their 'view keys' creates this really nice regulatory compliance facility, but he goes on to explain how you, the Monero user, are in full control of what you can show/what you can hide and (in the classic style of a technoboffin) he doesn't seem to have any understanding that a 'compliance system' that involves one party being able to obscure information and only selectively present transactions is about genuine for confirming compliance as a register of cash transactions (i.e. such registers are so easily altered to suit and keep 'cash sales' to a minimum). No regulator is going to accept view keys as even remotely plausible and at:

17:50 he even says if the government comes knocking asking for your record you can "give them one of your view keys and keep the other ones under your mattress". This (plus the hidden blockchain) is just more silliness that's indicative of how little understanding there is of what a currency is and what's going to work in the real world. (It's what often happens when people who are primarily technoboffins are let loose onto ideas within the field of monetary economics)

22:00 Monero does other stuff too: Here's an example of a contradictory statement. Riccardo talks about it being "slightly inflationary" but then explaining how the block reward stays the same after 2022 he then states it's "technically slightly disinflationary"

22:27 And here's an example of another contradictory statement. "We have no block limit...(pause)... err we have a dynamic block limit" and he then goes on to explain what he means about how the block size can be adjusted by the protocol looking at previous block sizes and it potentially increasing but to no more than 20%. It's confusing because in effect there's still a block limit and none of it addresses the massive bloat Monero's blockchain is subject to.

24:13 Then this confusion around the mine-ability of Monero "we have an accessible PoW algorithm....lowers the performance gap between CPUs, GPUs, FGPAs and ASICs"....(24:42) "in ten years time when there are ASICs, CPU miners will still be okay. They won't make a profit but they will still be able to mine...."

Mmm....suggesting what's going to be happening in the mining space in ten years time I believe is fraught with forecast-fail risk. I just wouldn't bother even mentioning such stuff. If there's no profit possible by mining from a CPU (even though it's theoretically possible) then it's a pointless point (if it's possible to make a "pointless point"; I think he's done it though).

27:32 How Monero's costs are covered - This is the CORKER! This is why Dash's approach with the new funding model is, not only so superior, it's fundamental to ensure survivability. They simply don't have a proper funding model and you can see how disastrous this is going to become. And, as per the rest of the presentation, he makes flippant statements and puts out classic throw-away lines that indicate this guy's underlying ethos

"...the way we cover our costs (because we aren't driving around in Ferraris, that happens next year...)"

"...send flufflypony to Europe to go talk at conferences...."

(and see 31:51 below where he actually outlines in detail how they're NOT able to work on stuff because of the funding problem)

29:05 Useful and Usable - "And what we're trying to do is make Monero useful and usable because at some stage we would like it to be grandparent friendly..."

You're a typical propeller head Riccardo. "Grandparent friendly" has negative connotations towards anyone that's a grandparent as it assumes older people are stupid and it needs to be dumbed down for them. There are far better ways of describing universal usability without jumping to age discriminatory clichés.

30:46 Online Ease of access - "The one thing that Monero struggles a bit with is that at the moment it is command line only. We do have a bunch of 3rd party GUIs but obviously usability is a bit of an issue for people because apparently command line tools are really hard for people to use...who knew? So ha ha ha..."
and
".....mymonero.com web wallet sort of handles the accessibility gap at least in the short term....."

Yep. Nothing more needs to be said (except if you all spent more time actually DEVing instead of coming here and to dozens of other threads FUDing you might actually have a proper wallet by now).

31:51 "...and we are of course working on a GUI...but we're working on it slowly because, well, I mean, you know, we don't get paid ha ha so we can only work as and when we can....we started with wireframes, then we did a bunch of designs for components and that's kind of what we ended up with. The code's up and it's working it's just not wired up. Some screens still need to be done but it is kind of pretty and it will be nice and useful and usable...."

The whole time he's speaking during this bit he has this flippant edge to his voice that's "yeah yeah...so the newbs and idiots need a GUI....okay...alright...we're working on it but it's really not our priority...."

You couldn't get a greater level of misunderstanding about why their lack of a Monero specifically developed GUI is the show stopper of show stoppers!

I stopped listening when the Q&A started. Heard enough and won't need to listen to anything from Riccardo again as he's clearly more spin than substance. And the manner in which he talks about other crypto projects and (in regards to this thread) Dash and the masternode network is so full of mis-information and lies it's truly appalling.

I don't think we have too much to contend with in regards to Monero and it's clearly reflected in their marketcap by comparison to Dash's.

Whoa there Tao! I think you're getting a little carried away with false perceptions that your Twitter work's being unfairly criticized. As Tante's already pointed out, tungfa's making a comment on the ongoing ad nauseum debate around changes to Bitcoin's protocol. What you do to promote Dash is tremendous and you're at it consistently which I and many others really appreciate.

But just to this point:


I think we need to be very careful about getting too carried away with the "Dash is going to replace Bitcoin" mantra (not that you've said this in your post just now, but it's a theme many of us are often putting forward). The fact is that if Bitcoin were to suffer some sort of major protocol failure or network corruption that forked everything so badly it couldn't be recovered within a short time, it's going to be all over for Dash too. We are absolutely and completely tied to Bitcoin technically, philosophically, emotionally and (in the public's mind) brand-wise because we're that "crypto thingy nerds use" so we need to support Bitcoin to help ensure the mother ship continues on without a massive loss of trust occurring.

Yes Dash is superior in many ways but (and this is not really entirely an appropriate analogy but the best I can think of at the moment) so was Apple's line of PCs at the time Windows was first released, yet the rise of the Windows based home PC probably facilitated far more sales of Apple PCs in the long run because of mass adoption of PCs in general opened up the market a hundred fold on what it was in the early stages. If Windows hadn't become ubiquitous like it did, the entire PC market may have been tiny and then the hand-held device market may not have developed as rapidly either (hard to imagine but the late 70s and all of the 80s set the scene for what we have today and Bitcoin is going to play a similar role in making Dash take off).

So I think we should always speak positively about Bitcoin and we should be "nice" (but that doesn't mean we can't constructively criticize). We want to be supporters of those people within Bitcoin who are thinking ahead and considering it on more levels than just the technical. That will get us far more kudos and respect than suggestions Bitcoin is lame and to shortly be replaced by Dash (and again I'm acknowledging this isn't what you're saying in your posting). If Bitcoin becomes far more mainstream we will become way way bigger and far more successful too; I'm sure of it.

Edit: Just saw your follow-up response to tungfa but have left my post as is.

Ha! All the Iceshitter rant posts were just deleted (I wasn't expecting them to last too long). It felt good to get that off my chest. As you were ladies and gents....