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161  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin: price still looks pessimistic. (PRE forecast) on: August 26, 2014, 03:52:25 PM
I wouldn't call it pessimistic (which suggests that price will go down), but it does indeed looked a bit slow on the rise and a bit undervalue.  If Bitcoin is stabilizing, by right the price would have been around $600-$650 minimum in which miners at least can have positive profit. Right now at the current price miners are mining at a loss, and buyers are getting a great deal. Miners should actually stop mining now and use the overheads to mine to buy instead until the price regain to a profitable level.
162  Economy / Speculation / Re: Will Bitcoin end up just like Litecoin? on: August 26, 2014, 03:34:52 PM
Cryptocurrency is still very much at its infancy. In fact some may even see it still at its conception stage, with Bitcoin being the proof of concept that the idea of cryptocurrency can work. But if the concept of cryptocurrency can work and gets accepted, Bitcoin will still be the at the forefront for the very simple fact that all other altcoins are based on Bitcoin in terms of value. Bitcoin IS the concept of cryptocurrency in itself, so if Bitcoin dies, so will all other altcoins and the whole idea of cryptocurrency.
163  Economy / Speculation / Re: Good time to wait, short, or buy... for the short term to immediate term? on: August 24, 2014, 06:54:08 PM
right now it's stabilizing at ~$500. Give it a few months, it'll stabilize at ~$600, then ~$700, then ~$800, then ~$900 and finally at ~$1k.

past 2014, it will be impossible to still be in the $400-$500 range
164  Economy / Speculation / Re: Today's Bitcoin price, a year ago on: August 24, 2014, 06:36:38 PM
If anyone is feeling uncertain about the price today, look back just a year ago. That is all.

Can't expect an asset price to keep going up forever.

It will hit a limit.

Oh but it will. Because it is deflationary in nature the price can only go up, there is just no other way
165  Economy / Speculation / Re: It isn't possible for Bitcoin to go to $0 on: August 24, 2014, 06:33:10 PM
It is indeed, not possible for Bitcoin to have zero value. If it does I would be the first to acquire every single one of them out there. And I'm sure I'm not the only one. So yes, it is not possible. If people only realize what Bitcoin is and will be worth, they would've sold their kidney for it
166  Economy / Speculation / Re: what should I do, I invested a lot on: August 24, 2014, 06:28:50 PM
If you need to know one thing about cryptocurrency, the one with the first mover advantage will always have the highest value. All others that follow can only be based on the first mover. So it's better to just concentrate on the first mover that is Bictoin, which is the one that created the whole new concept of cryptocurrency. Sure you can probably gain a little by dabbling into altcoins provided you know when to offload them at their peak but all altcoins are based on the first mover, Bitcoin
167  Economy / Speculation / Re: Today's Bitcoin price, a year ago on: August 24, 2014, 06:21:15 PM
falling, I don't know what is your intention but clearly you are a troll. Bitcoin is a deflationary concept. The moment you limit something, and so happens that it has a value, it is deflationary in nature. Bitcoin can never, ever, go down to zero once it attained a value. Just as certain as there can never, ever be non-internet once internet is invented.
168  Economy / Speculation / Re: How to increase bitcoin price? on: August 24, 2014, 06:08:47 PM
Let's just all agree that the price is 5k instead of 0.5k Cheesy

agreed. 5K is optimum, 3k is alright, 1k is minimal, 0.5k is actually a loss ( and a steal for those buying)
169  Economy / Speculation / Re: ready for $400 again? on: August 23, 2014, 05:41:58 PM
My response to this is that, unlike Bitcoin, Tulips had no value and no utility.

They had a value.

By 1636 the tulip bulb became the fourth leading export product of the Netherlands, after gin, herring and cheese. The price of tulips skyrocketed because of speculation in tulip futures among people who never saw the bulbs.

By 2013 the price of bitcoin skyrocketed because of speculation in cryptocurrencies futures among people who never saw the source code?

People who equate Bitcoin to tulip, don't know what is Bitcoin and don't know what they are talking about. It's like equating Internet to the dot com bubble. And here we all are, using the interwebs.
170  Economy / Speculation / Re: Today's Bitcoin price, a year ago on: August 23, 2014, 05:29:00 PM
It will go to the moon and beyond. I cannot predict when, but if you understand the fundamentals of Bitcoin, it is conceived to go up in value. That is as certain as 1+1=2
171  Economy / Speculation / Re: How to increase bitcoin price? on: August 23, 2014, 05:19:30 PM
Sell bit coins at 900$ everyone

You can't dictate the market by telling everyone to sell at a certain price. There's always someone willing to sell low because of a lot of factors, ie. early adopters/miners that obtain a lot of bitcoins when it was around $5 per btc. But not to worry. Because there will always be less and less bitcoins mined, prices are sure to go up.

A sounder advice would be everyone with bitcoins, HOLD
172  Economy / Speculation / Today's Bitcoin price, a year ago on: August 23, 2014, 05:02:48 PM
If anyone is feeling uncertain about the price today, look back just a year ago. That is all.
173  Economy / Speculation / Re: How to increase bitcoin price? on: August 23, 2014, 04:52:50 PM
When first generation bitcoiners, those who own lots of bitcoins in the early days when you can mine a few btcs a day using GPUs sold all of theirs at a low price (because they're already profiting even if they sell at $100) and left only the 2nd generation miners using ASICs mining, price will rise exponentially.
174  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin price can only rise, here's why on: August 22, 2014, 04:24:30 AM

There are nasty consequences that can result from an economic environment where consumers hoard rather than spend their money.  The most immediate problem is that businesses start to go belly-up when their overhead and expenditures outpace revenue.  A deflationary currency won't help you when you get fired because the company you were working for can't afford to keep you on board any longer.  Contrary to what some other here might have you believe, being deflationary isn't a magical ingredient that suddenly makes unsound money sound.

It's very natural to hoard as much something that is deflationary just as it is to spend as much something that is inflationary. But knowing fiat is inflationary, people still save. And knowing Bitcoin is deflationary, people still spend. The thing with currency is it works not because it's inflationary or deflationary, it works because its value is relatively stable. As long as the price remains stable with no drastic volatility, a currency can gradually be worth less or be worth more yet still serve its purpose, a medium of monetary value in exchange for goods and services. When the Zimbabwean dollar experienced hyperinflation, prices are so drastic that from the moment you pick something up from the shelves to paying it at the counter, the price could have already changed. That would be unsound money to you, a hyperinflationary fiat backed by nothing but the word of the Zimbabwean government saying how much it's worth. An inflationary currency can depreciate close to zero. But a deflationary currency's value can only go up.  Which currency would you rather be holding?
175  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin price can only rise, here's why on: August 21, 2014, 05:10:29 PM
Because the number of bitcoins that can ever be created is limited, because the cost of mining bitcoins will keep getting higher and higher as it gets more difficult to mine, because less and less bitcoins will be mined the more there are mined, because awareness and adoption and infrastructure can only grow, because more people are going to want bitcoins, and because fiat is inflationary,  the value of bitcoins will and can only rise. Bitcoin has the law of mathematics backing it, the only certain law that governs the universe.

Referring to bolded section, what guarantees more people are going to want bitcoins?

Let's say I want to make dirt a currency.  So, I take a shovel, go out in my backyard, and I start digging.

Things to note:
1) The amount of dirt is limited.
2) The deeper I dig, the harder it will be to keep digging.  This is hard work.
3) The deeper I dig, I will eventually need better equipment or even some help to do the job (infrastructure + adoption).
4) Dirt has the laws of mathematics backing it.

Will the value of dirt only keep getting higher and higher?

Not if I can easily get dirt from my backyard with no expenses at all. I would even give away my dirt for free cos I have plenty in my backyard. That would make dirt as useless as, well, dirt. But let me ask you. Do people want money? If yes then people want Bitcoins. Bitcoin is the equivalent of money in digital form. Money is simply something that holds a certain value. A 20 dollar holds 20 dollars worth of USD. Only difference is a 20 dollar note is worth 20 dollars USD no matter what. But 1 bitcoin can be worth anything the current price is at. Doesn't matter. It still represents a value. Now a 20 dollar note will and forever be worth 20 USD. But a bitcoin fluctuates. That's about it. Bitcoin holds a monetary value, just that it fluctuates.
176  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin price can only rise, here's why on: August 21, 2014, 04:52:25 PM
If it can only rise then why is it often dropping? There are no guarantees in this social experiment. I believe it has a future. But my opinion plus a cup of coffee equals... a cup of coffee.

To quote Albert Einstein: "as far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."

In reality, there are a lot of factors to consider. Market manipulations. Human fear and stupidity. Unawareness. Computer glitches and human errors. etc.

But if you truly understand the mechanism behind Bitcoin as a cryptocurrency, you would be baffled as well as to why there can be drops in its price when it should be linearly increasing in an ideal, purely mathematical and logical world

Referring to bolded section, I'm not sure that anything is really being said here.  This is what it seems like you're saying:
1) The price can only go up in "an ideal, purely mathematical and logical world."
2) We don't live in such a world, so the price goes down sometimes.

Here's my question:  In "an ideal, purely mathematical and logical world," who is going to be the idiot to sell their BTC to the first buyer?

If A buys BTC from B, then A is saying "the BTC I bought is worth more to me than what I paid for it," and B is saying "the money I received is worth more to me than than the BTC I sold for it."

Basically, I'm just pointing out that it's not baffling whatsoever as to why the price drops.  For every buyer there is a seller, and it's just sort of nonsense to talk about a hypothetical reality which is so far removed from the reality we have now.

Oh, btw, a money that linearly increases in value up to infinity without dropping implies that nobody is ever using that money to buy anything, ever.  Sort of defeats the purpose of money in the first place, don't you think?

Yes. I realized that. In reality, we do not live in a mathematical, logical world. Which is what Albert Einstein is implying. For the laws of mathematics and logic is certain, it cannot and never can be applied to our 'real' world which we are living in. For mathematics has no emotion, or 'life'. In other words, maths or logics is kinda like death. No emotions, no expressions, no life. It is simply yes or no. Correct or incorrect. Emotionless. Yet we, as humans, are emotional. That is what defines us as living, human beings after all.

I think, that we are so used to a currency that is inflationary, that we cannot grasp the concept of a currency that is deflationary. But wouldn't it be a good thing though? We spend our money right here right now because we know our money is going to be of a lesser value tomorrow. So we get rid of our money as soon as we receive it. Is that a good thing, necessarily? What if we have a currency that is deflationary, that the money we have today is going to worth more tomorrow. We wouldn't be spending our money on stuff unless we absolutely needed it. Wouldn't be a bad thing I suppose. We won't waste as much. Won't be so much waste as in garbage and scavenging the earth for resources because we need to make things to spend our money on because the value of our money keeps decreasing everyday anyway.

A currency that is deflationary, is the complete opposite of a currency that is inflationary. That's what Bitcoin's about.



177  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin price can only rise, here's why on: August 21, 2014, 04:25:36 PM
Because the number of bitcoins that can ever be created is limited, because the cost of mining bitcoins will keep getting higher and higher as it gets more difficult to mine, because less and less bitcoins will be mined the more there are mined, because awareness and adoption and infrastructure can only grow, because more people are going to want bitcoins, and because fiat is inflationary,  the value of bitcoins will and can only rise. Bitcoin has the law of mathematics backing it, the only certain law that governs the universe.

You could say the exact same for the market for all the turds and other forms excrement that I will produce in a lifetime. I will only ever produce so much faeces in during my life, therefore my shite should fetch top dollar in the market place and the value of it can only ever go up. After all, it has the laws of mathematics backing it and mathematics governs the universe.

Lol. Are you tryna troll? If there are infrastructures for your turds, atm machines that take your turds and converts them to money, machines that can make you generate your turds 24/7, your turds will be the same 20 or 100 years from now and not rot into something entirely useless, and you can only be producing less turds than you are today keep its value, heck, why not. But can you though, with you and your turds? Face it mate, you and your turds are worth shite as it should be
178  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin price can only rise, here's why on: August 21, 2014, 03:55:50 PM
If it can only rise then why is it often dropping? There are no guarantees in this social experiment. I believe it has a future. But my opinion plus a cup of coffee equals... a cup of coffee.

To quote Albert Einstein: "as far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; and as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality."

In reality, there are a lot of factors to consider. Market manipulations. Human fear and stupidity. Unawareness. Computer glitches and human errors. etc.

But if you truly understand the mechanism behind Bitcoin as a cryptocurrency, you would be baffled as well as to why there can be drops in its price when it should be linearly increasing in an ideal, purely mathematical and logical world
179  Economy / Speculation / Re: what should I do, I invested a lot on: August 21, 2014, 03:34:21 PM

Nonsense. LTC is a useless clone of Bitcoin, which only "added value" compared to Bitcoin was a different hashing algorithm (Scrypt) that was supposed to be ASIC resistant (no ASIC = no mining centralization). Nowadays we have Scrypt ASICs, thus Litecoin is completely useless.

There's no reason to hold LTC other than trying to sell at a premium to a "greater fool".

That applies to all altcoins. Basically the game of altcoins is, be the early adopters in to generate insane amount of coins, bet on it to rise in value then sell all and move on to the next new altcoin. No altcoins can overtake the first mover that is Bitcoin, no matter how better they are than Bitcoin, because the way cryptocurrency works is that you can never generate more early than you are late, it's what make cryptocurrency deflationary and hence, give them value
180  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin price can only rise, here's why on: August 21, 2014, 03:22:49 PM

I think the main ideas in this thread are correct in that there are many reasons which are unique to btc that implies it can only become universal and therefore rise in value. fiat is manipulated as are gold prices at the moment but i am not aware of any currencies still backed by gold? any examples you can give?

It's precisely that fiat isn't backed by gold anymore, something that has a limit and is finite, that fiat is inflationary. That is precisely why we have million dollar homes and billion dollars companies. Because there is no limit how many fiats can be printed out of thin air. Fiat which is unlimited need to compensate for something like Bitcoin which is limited. It's simply the law of mathematics
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