I can't control the facts.  This journalist who I invited to dinner ended up writing a very positive story about Bitcoin, didn't he?  A bunch of dudes from the IFC now have a very positive view and strong understanding of Bitcoin that they didn't have before, don't they?  When is the Bitcoin community going to get a clue indeed.  I almost forgot why I don't keep up with these forums anymore.

Garzik, thanks for the ad hominem.  Erik, Charlie, Roger, others, thanks for the defense.

I just replied to this on the Reddit thread but I'll respond here as well.

What I actually said was:  "it's an entirely digital currency.  Right now, people mostly use it to gamble, buy drugs and porn (insert long pause here) -- but that's changing.  I think it has a lot of potential."  It was funny because 1. it's true, 2. probably the unexpected response, 3. probably a little out there as far as IFC dinner conversation usually goes.


I've asked Andrew to make the correction but if you ask me what the majority of Bitcoin business is today, I'm still going to say drugs, porn and gambling. If you don't want to use Bitcoin because other people use it for those things, you better burn all your cash USD, shut off the Inernet, throw away your computer and move in to a cave. Those industries lead the way in many new technologies and I think that Bitcoin gaining traction there is a real positive sign that it's not long before mainstream adoption.

My joke, of course, wasn't revealing so much as it was simply acknowledging Bitcoin's very real PR problem, which they were all well aware of. We should be thankful to all the sensationalist media for getting Bitcoin as much coverage as it has. Invariably, people ask me about this and it has to be addressed. I'm quick to say "yes it's true BUT.. it's popular in those industries because... IT'S TOTALLY AWESOME FOR ALL INDUSTRIES (except for maybe payment services)." I can't control the truth and if you ask me for it and you choose to write it down, I can't stop you.

Also, I'm not Bitcoin's paid PR spokesperson and I'm not responsible for Bitcoin's image. What was said casually over dinner to a group of highly intelligent/experienced financiers is not necessarily indicative of how I would pitch Bitcoin to the general public. I'm a huge proponent of Bitcoin and flew myself to Vegas, put myself up in a hotel, paid for that overpriced conference pass, and spent 2 days on 2 hours of sleep singing the praises of Bitcoin to conference goers, setting people up with mobile wallets and even starting them off with a free Bitcoin. What more do you want?

MaxBTC.com has had 0 fees all along and will continue to have 0 fees.

This is news to us.  We haven't received any communications in this regard and we have no intention of dropping the suit.  In fact, we haven't even personally received any contact from the liquidators regarding our claims, which is strange given that we probably make up > 50% of the total money being owed.  We await the liquidator's finding as to the responsibilities of the individual Bitcoinica directors, investors, founders.  If the liquidators wish to help our case against the other defendants, we might be willing to drop Bitcoinica from the suit.

Ogrr.com has recently completed its merger with mmoexchange.net, adding 20,000 new users to our Bitcoin trade forums.  We have a few other acquisition deals in the pipeline that will introduce thousands more to Bitcoin once those mergers are complete.

Currently, we're in search of a full-time Senior Web Developer to continue expanding and refining the features on the forum, and help grow it to one of the largest communities on the Internet.

Requirements:
Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP
Javascript, Node.js
CSS3, HTML5

~$50/hr negotiable, equity possibilities

Also, we're looking for someone reliable with some CSS skills to create a few alternative themes for the forums.

If this sounds like something you might be interested in, PM me here or over at Ogrr.com.

Vardiff just needs to be tested, which will be after we get 0.7.x tested.  Stratum, maybe.. more likely stratum than GBT.

MaxBTC has been neglected a bit lately as we've been focusing on the exchange, which is nearly ready.

We don't have any plans for it at this time.

As Aseras said, it's luck.  The good luck we had before had to eventually end and be offset by longer rounds, though these past few have been a bit too long.

The blocks left you mention are the number of blocks left before the next difficulty change.  Every 2016 blocks, the difficulty will be readjusted by the network so that it'll take about two weeks to solve 2016 blocks (or a block every 10 minutes).

3rd longest round by # of shares yet.  Can it take the #1 spot?  Only 300k more to go!

UPDATED 01/Nov/2013

Hey guys,

Two things:

1.  We've got some room left in our Series A round of funding and I thought it'd be cool to give the community a chance to participate.

2.  Even if you aren't able to or interested in investing, we are looking for loans (in all currencies) to cover reserves for margin trading.  These funds would be completely secured and not at risk--they're just float while a user has a position open, which is collateralized by their assets.  Payward would be your counterparty to the loan, not other users.  If you've got BTC, LTC, NMC, XRP, USD, EUR just sitting around in significant quantities ($100k+/500+ BTC) and you want to earn some modest interest on it, get in touch.


Participation in this round of funding is available to accredited investors only.  Generally, that means:


I apologize for not making this more accessible.  Given our goals and the professionalism/experience of our other investors, everything has gotta be 100% above board and done within the requirements of the law.

Payward, Inc. is a United States, Delaware C-corp, founded in July 2011.

Full pitch, extra details available to qualified, interested parties.  PM me for more info.  Try the exchange at https://kraken.com

we're back in action.  thanks again

On it.  Thanks for the report!

Thanks for the heads up.  We're a bit busy right now but have fixed the headers and are adding a few more options.  We'll roll it out once they're tested and ready.

Ogrr.com is looking to create a few alternative themes for the forum.  Basically, it's the same process as theming a subreddit.. you'll just have images and css to work with.  If you're interested, hit me up and provide at least one example of your work.

I prefer to pay in Bitcoin but PayPal is also available.

First, thank you!

Second, if it's not too much trouble:  two datetime columns on address Book would be great:  created, last txn

They haven't yet responded to the lawsuit in California.

I spoke with Donald and Amir at the pre-conference dinner last night.  Donald accused me of spreading misinformation and refused to sign anything until Tihan releases him from his NDA, which will allow him to "bring out the truth".  Amir, was pretty stoic, had no comment on the matter other than that he didn't know what was right because he's a "programmer not a businessman", and that he'd do whatever the other guys told him to do.  Patrick was not present.

This morning, I gave legal service of process on behalf of Wendon to Amir and Patrick at the conference venue.  Donald was not present.

I have previously met with Patrick in San Francisco and, while this isn't saying much, he's probably the most sane of the group.  If this document Tihan has offered is going to get signed, it will require Patrick convincing Amir.

I've gotta say, I can't believe anyone who has ever met these guys would trust them with their money, much less someone else's money.

Thanks for taking the time to reply to all of them!  I've written some responses back but we could probably go back and forth eternally so don't feel the need to address every concern I have.  I'm not the guy you're after.


Sure, if I were in your position I'd do the same thing.  I would rather have a diverse portfolio than all my eggs in one basket.  Selling some of SatoshiDICE allows you to take some other risks elsewhere.  I just think it's important to emphasize to the investors that this money isn't all going toward efforts to increase the business' value.  Apart from the portion going toward the marketing, it's an independent shareholder selling his shares.  After this round, if the company ever wishes to sell shares again, it'll have to compete with existing shareholders.  It'll be interesting to see what happens to the price then.


wow!  Well, nobody can stop you from charging whatever you think the shares are worth.


Sure it's a website but a business is operating at that website.  In the United States (and elsewhere) there are laws about who you can accept investments from, and for investors to be protected, the company needs to have a certain structure, bylaws/operating agreement, etc.  I'm beginning to understand that this whole operation and stock sale are not intended to take in to consideration any body of law, and you all are comfortable with the risks involved with that.  It's basically a gentleman's agreement offered on a handshake.  I think you would be better protected legally if you did not make this offer in terms of shares/company ownership, and rather just allowed people to purchase a contract for a percentage of profits.  If a shareholder ever decides to sue you, it's going to be a mess.


Sure, you still have a lot of incentive to grow the business.  Any money from this round of funding that does not go in to the company's coffers will be money that has to be spent out of profits later.  I don't think I've ever seen a pitch to raise funds where that money wasn't going directly in to expanding the business, but again, I now realize that there is very little money actually being raised, and the majority of the sale is a private shareholder liquidating.


This brings up another possibility.  I'd much rather invest in Erik Voorhees, Inc. than SatoshiDICE.  Since you won't be devoted to SatoshiDICE full-time, why not consolidate your efforts under one umbrella and allow people to purchase a stake of everything you produce?  What if you come up with something else like SatoshiDICE but better and decide to devote your time to that since it both produces more profit, and you own a larger stake?  I suppose this is where you and your investors would find out how far a handshake goes in court.


I'm glad that you now recognize it as a business and not simply a website.  It's nice to think that the site will be doing well enough to cover legal fees should they arise, but often legal problems come up when you're running out of money--just ask Intersango  Anyway, 7k BTC sounds like reasonable reserves.  Investors potentially do create exposure for themselves beyond lost profits:  https://vcexperts.com/buzz_articles/1180


True.  Given the site's structure and relative simplicity, it's probably not going to be an expensive issue to deal with.  Unfortunately, this also means lower barrier to entry.


I'd most be worried about the countries that you live in, travel through and have servers in:  http://www.cato-at-liberty.org/uk-gambling-ceo-arrested-at-us-airport/


The difference with BTC is that they're much more liquid.  If I see the end coming, I can cash out.  It'd probably be a lot more difficult to ditch my SD shares.  What if that other crypto-currency has SD built in?  My main problem is that the company has no real assets and doesn't intend to accumulate any that might be of value to investors if the site shuts down.  The company doesn't plan to diversify (beyond possibly a similar crypto-currency).  For the same reasons you want to sell 10% of your shares, I'd like to see company diversify its offerings.


We might have said the same things about MySpace before Facebook came along, or Gox before Bitcoinica.  It's still very early days for Bitcoin (and SD) and there are still very few professional offerings to compete with but that will change.


Well, I'd say that using the funds raised to rocket SD far beyond the competition's reach would be great, but we're really talking about $30k going toward that, not $300k, right?


Everybody is going to have a different opportunity cost for the coins but that is what a 'good' return will be measured by.  I'm pissed that I didn't sell everything I own to buy Bitcoin when it hit $2.  Do investors think better offerings will come up that will make them wish they didn't have their money tied up in this 5-year break-even plan?  Things are happening, as Bruce Wagner likes to say, in 'Bitcoin time'.


So who does pay employees/contractors?  Are you not in some capacity an agent for the business?  Who does the company hold responsible if somebody screws up?  Is it all volunteer work with immunity then?  There is no set amount of hours that the shareholders can expect the company will employ someone to work on the business?  Is there a board of directors who instructs these volunteers?  Or, does Erik just pay the compensation out of pocket for work performed on the company's behalf?


By botched I mean illegal.  It would probably be too much of a problem for any organization concerned with legal compliance to purchase SD after a funding round like this.


I should have said Acts of Gavin  Is it likely that SD would be obsoleted/broken by changes to Bitcoin?


I wish I could own a piece but for my own opportunity cost, the price of the shares and the risks at hand, I'm going to pass.  I hope you'll still invite me to the party in Macau


Probably a wise choice to present an alternative investment opportunity before the idle coin is thrown away on the next ponzi.  Boring ol' verifiable and sustainable have not been popular so far, unfortunately.


I'll end by saying that just because I'm not investing, that doesn't mean the deal isn't a good opportunity for some people.  You'll have to assess the risks and opportunity cost for yourself.  There are definitely worse guys you could give your money to than Erik--he's trustworthy and he'll probably use it to continue doing great things for Bitcoin.  Good luck all around.

First, let me say that SatoshiDICE is awesome and I wish it the best.

High risk doesn't always mean high reward.  The fact that Erik is taking the vast majority of the money to reinvest personally in Bitcoin should tell you what he thinks the better bet is.

Now, I'm all for diversification of one's portfolio but there are a lot of negatives here that have me failing to see the 10x valuation.

Apologies in advance if any of these have already been addressed in this thread:

1.  Service is potentially illegal in many jurisdictions, including the US.
2.  I can't tell if this is actually a registered legal entity, nor whether the paperwork has been properly done to allow investment and protect investors.
3.  The deal structure doesn't resemble so much a company taking investment as it does an individual shareholder selling shares.  Your money, by in large, won't be reinvested in the company.
4.  Is Erik actively involved in growing the business full time or is he devoting the majority of his time to other projects?
5.  It sounds like the company hasn't been keeping any reserves so if it does get hit with a big lawsuit or other expense, what happens?  Does Erik come out of pocket?
6.  If the site is targeted for attack, as other gambling sites are, your hosting bill could quickly become $10k/mo, eating away 1/3 of the profits.
7.  Is it more likely or less likely that if Bitcoin is still around in 5 years it will have faced some form of regulation?
8.  If Bitcoin goes bust, what of value is left for the shareholders?  Does the business have any revenue streams not entirely dependent on Bitcoin?
9.  Does the company possess any assets that are not easily replicable?  Any especially valuable trade secrets, patents, trademarks or other intellectual property?  How about even user information?
10.  Just because the clone attempts so far have failed, that doesn't mean future ones will.  For $300k, someone could do a lot more than clone SD, and own 100% of it.
11.  A bet on a fully Bitcoin-dependent business is generally riskier than a bet on Bitcoin itself, and in this case the expected return doesn't justify it.
12.  What prevents Erik from taking a salary or hiring someone to replace him, or taking on other expenses that will drastically reduce profit?  Is there a board of directors he works for?
13.  Low barrier to entry.
14.  Botched funding round eliminates any possibility for a serious company to purchase SD in the future.
15.  Acts of god.

As someone with experience in investing in startups, I'm going to have to steer clear of this one.  Even if all the business stuff were above board, I'd think that for all the negatives, the valuation wouldn't be greater than 2x, and even that's a stretch.  Again, I'd much rather just put my money in to Bitcoin or save it for a promising Bitcoin business that actually needs it to grow, not just to cash out the owner.  Anyway, can't blame Erik for trying.  I'd gladly take his end of the deal all day long.

Oh, and why raise the funds before the new site is launched?  Usually, you launch your thing and then use that as a basis for raising money at a higher valuation.

Yep:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madoff_investment_scandal#The_Innocence_Project

Not happy, but you don't give a shit.  Hell, if you could steal from a rich guy to help a poorer guy, you should do it, right?

You don't know what Roger's financial situation is, where that money came from, what it means to him, how many years of his life it represents or how its loss will impact him.  For all you know, Roger had deposited that money on behalf of his poorer friends and family.  Roger has done so much for Bitcoin with his own money that any loss he suffers is surely a loss for the whole Bitcoin community.  Roger would have invested that money in more Bitcoin businesses, used it to fly around the world to evangelize Bitcoin, paid for more radio ads.  That is a lot of money that Roger no longer has to give away in an effort to expand Bitcoin's growth and adoption, which would benefit everyone.

Having a high net worth doesn't mean that you can easily afford to take an unexpected 24,000 BTC loss.  I do pretty well but after a few months went by and Bitcoinica still had not returned my funds, I stopped paying my mortgage so I could continue to pay my employees.  I couldn't make the charitable contribution that I'd promised to the local arts center, which has impacted their programming.  The timing was just about as bad is it could possibly have been.  The problem is that most of my assets are illiquid, and you stole my liquidity, which created a cascade of much more expensive problems that affected a lot more people than just myself.  The amount of money missing for me is not the biggest problem--it's the not having it when I expected to have it.

Your statements just prove further that you should never have been in charge of anyone's money.  I don't know what else to say.  I'm appalled.