How does bitcoin work? Who actually pays for the mining done?
You might want to read from actual recognised resources, beginning first at bitcoin.org. Various ways to explain how it works, from the basic picture probably most forum users even understand, to the highly technical that would only make sense to programmers. I generally introduce it just the way the white paper did. Nobody pays for mining. It is completely voluntary - anyone can choose to mine, though because of today's difficulty and complexity, entry barriers are quite high (technologically and financially). Currently, though, miners earn a reward for finding new blocks ( 12.5 new bitcoins generated) and they keep the fees included in the transactions the include in those blocks. Thanks to demand and the appreciation of Bitcoin value, this has become quite profitable. |
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Yeah great win last night bro, I wonder if we’ll do anything in the transfecwindow today on deadline day, unlikely I guess. I feel dirty for saying it but I hope Man Utd beat Spurs tonight, we’d then be 5 points ahead of Spurs & if we manage to beat them at Anfield on the weekend it’d be 8 points. That’d be 1 foot towards CL football next season.
I had 3-0 Liverpool in the btctalk bbc prediction league too, got 40 points. I had Arsenal & W Ham to win though.
So we both got the 40 points haha. They've been really good to me with 3-0 predictions, I never actually bet on it for fear of jinxing though. Funny I also thought Gunners and Hammers would win... I'm actually hoping we don't do more transfer deadline moves - we don't generally do well with that. I'm having mixed feelings about Sturridge moving out but I guess he was never going to fit into our high tempo games, and maybe that gives a chance for Ings to shine when we need to break down teams, even if those chances have evaporated with both domestic cup games out. I'll want Spurs to beat Utd though. We won't win the league but a nice second place would be a good foundation to build on for next season with Keita on board - I'm confident we can avenge the terrible loss at Wembley this weekend. You also never know what we'll do in CL. If we reach the final, it'll be a huge boost to everyone at the club. |
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Reputational preservation is the enemy of innovation. I suspect that nonnakip and I will continue doing the best we can. If people are buying NastyFans as an investment vehicle (not proper usage) they should: understand how public auctions work, know what rights they have as a seat owner, take personal accountability for their decisions, be aware of what their exposure is, and be diversified against any risks. If people are joining NastyFans to have fun, learn, and help support a community organization to see how far we can take this experiment, I think they will end up glad to be in the club.
Couldn't agree more, and yes you guys will probably have to "endure" maintaining the openness of this very old thread actual for a very long time. I'm definitely in this for the latter. I'm not a trader, and definitely not much of a hoarder. I store whatever I can but always look for opportunity to spend coins on something new. Relatively speaking, I've probably spent more in terms of time and energy on other things. This forum. Other online channels. I could be accused of being a mere dabbler, but I'm happy to say I've learnt. And that really is my only aim. If I can play bit roles in supporting pockets within the wider Bitcoin community, that's a bonus. Good to remind that this - just like Bitcoin itself - is an experiment that is still unfolding. The negativity that some are bringing here is clearly (to me anyway) more of a way to try to pressure Og as revenge tactic for issues external to the fanclub. Buying mining equipment, or becoming a part of a collective mining group is the same thing in that you are essentially selling your BTC for the fiat value at the time of purchase of the equipment or for the seat. The only "businesses" I've ever seen that promised a BTC investment that claimed to increase your BTC holdings were scams or ponzis that relied on some undisclosed trading method like Trendon Shaver's ponzi or the recent Bitconnect ponzi as examples. If you are bullish on bitcoin price...hold bitcoin.
Can't ask for anything less yeah? If there's something constructive coming out from the negativity, then all the better. Actually, being able to read the good and the bad helped me make my decision. You're right about holding - anyone who makes a purchase or who uses bitcoin can't look back and feel the regret of hindsight. There are times I even "regret" paying bills early, or "regret" buying a service or a product, but I remind myself of Lazslo's attitude when asked if he regretted buying pizza for all those tens of thousands of bitcoin. |
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Not sure what your issue is. Transaction you pasted isn't stuck. That's why Viabtc's service didn't work for you. Has 20 confirmations right now and only took 120 minutes to confirm from the time it was broadcasted. All that information is viewable in the link you posted. You probably were waiting for TradeOgre to process your withdrawal request. The time you submit a withdrawal to an exchange or any online service is not the time the actual Bitcoin transaction was made. That's the problem with online services. You can't actually control how your funds are sent to you once you've stored it (deposited) with them. |
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Huddersfield 0-3 Liverpool
Great result for Liverpool tonight & now 8 points ahead of Arsenal after their very surprising loss to Swansea.
Yes, a really bad defeat for Arsenal that seems out of the fight for the seats for the champion's league (gap of 8 points at this point of the season are too many). Arsenal, as did Manchester United last year, must try to win the Europa League to qualify for the next champion's league, but there are many strong opponents (Napoli, At. Madrid, Dortmund) Happy to have gotten a squeeze from my Liverpool game, too bad I didn't actually bet on my 3-0 prediction. I wish they would have played like this a few times this season after leading 2 or 3 goals, I mean the way they didn't just run ragged at every counter, when the team was calm they needed to tackle less and didn't need to run as crazy. Just look at the stats after the game, 77% possession, zero yellow cards, no injuries and still 7 shots on targets. They can afford to sacrifice shots on goal really if they just kept leads. Then again, when Spurs visit on Sunday we'll need Mane Bobby and Salah to all be beasts. We need that distance between them and us for CL. Early bet on Liverpool at handicap -2.5 looks extremely risky but tasty. About Arsenal... well. Woeful as ever. Cech needs to shake his teammates. |
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And it's important that people are continually reminded about this. Bitcoin was extremely ideological and governments and the traditional financial system at least can be credited for recognising it as a political threat.
Yes, the underlying blockchain infrastructure is a brilliant piece of technology - but it was simply the means to deploying the idea.
The latter may be gaining more recognition than the former, though arguably, the majority of Bitcoin users can't see past the market to appreciate either.
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Liverpool are killing my soul at the moment, I went to the game against WBA in the FA Cup, performance was terrible. I had a £10 bet at Ladbrokes yesterday for Huddersfield to beat us, it will return £95. I don’t even think Huddersfield will win but as a Liverpool fan at least of we can’t win I might win some money if Huddersfield win. Saying that it’ll probably be a draw now & I’ll be angry both ways  My predictions are in any way, good luck everybody, except those above me in the table  Didn't realise you were a Scouser, LFC! Yeah... they've been causing me grief ever since I can remember. European nights were always a salve, and I still get the tinges of regret when I am reminded of how close we came in 09. I can't bear watching them these days, the delirium of the victories like at City makes me crash even more when we fall to... Swansea... Albion. I've never bet against them, but my problem with Liverpool betting is I bet without rationale. Here's a near doubler for Liverpool at a 1.5 handicap: https://www.bitcoinrush.io/sportsbook/ShareBet?id=xl3g0COu53jQAfR7fi9L1X7dxlgf4QJQVNyl7O11c5Y%3DYes, I know. I didn't even put $2 down for it. Hope Supremo's right about draws. My predictions have at least 2 every week now. |
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OK,Let 's imagine that we' re going to treat using LN.
A: current Balance 1 BTC
B: current Balance 1 BTC
A want to pay 0.5 BTC to B.
we will open a Channel with a current Balance, send it to miners to be confirmed and we need to wait before rebroadcasting our current balance.
so if multi-Channels started at same time how we can protect system from "deadlock problem"?
Not sure what you mean by deadlock problem. The basic Bitcoin network already means you can't open the channel without txs getting confirmed (although it does make me wonder how many confirmations are needed before LN channel is considered open, if I understood it correctly!). And you if you can't confirm spent inputs then you can't open channels with the same coins. Double spends? The one confirmed will open the channel, the other will be invalid, channel also can never be opened. If there is any problem in synchronization How can we protect the sender and receiver from cheating by using the previous value and not the current value ?
I think the most basic guidance ( http://lightning.network/how-it-works/) already explains this without being too technical. In summary, both participants in the channel must sign off any spending, and only the most recent version of ledger is valid. |
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Decentralized exchangers will not only be important in the future, but also centralized ones.
Decentralized exchangers have great advantages like high privacy and no influence of authorities, but they are also expensive. Without managing the trading platform, trades must be made directly with transfer fees for each trade and you have to manage the security yourself or find interactive smart contracts.
Centralised exchanges are definitely still in the picture for the immediate and foreseeable future. The fact that they've been around for years, and will cater to the beginning needs of newcomers - along with the fact that a vast majority of people will actually still prefer to choose centralized ones for the perceived benefits of a caretaker/arbitrator, or in the case of regulated ones like in Japan - insurance. Most people can't even trust themselves to remember their email passwords, much less private keys or seeds that aren't even in their native language. But the future also belongs to decentralised exchanges, and we already have some making small Waves (forgive the pun) in the industry. I try to use them as much as possible, despite their painful shortcomings (low volume, thin orderbooks). Risking a shill remark, my eye is on a project called NVO but there are many others emerging with beta platforms which should go public this year. 2016 was when the talk arose, this year could possibly see them take off. |
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Well, put in a quick non-thinking prediction all through to tomorrow's games. I'm still nursing a huge headache over Liverpool's recent performances. That high from the City toppling followed by quickfire losses to the league's bottom and second-from-bottom respectively. Don't want to dwell too much on anything, at least Firminho and Salah can still score - 3-0 win as usual my picks for tonight.
For all others, I will be backing shock draws for Chelsea and City tonight, and a Spurs upset at Wembley to beat the devils by a single goal. Other than that I *think* I bet with the favourites. Good luck guys.
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Theoretically, there IS a way to avoid paying fees. This is achieved simply by not including a miner's fee in your transaction. You'd be extremely unlikely to ever get it confirmed though, unless you intervene by somehow getting it submitted to a miner to include it. Deliberately sending low or zero fees is not good behaviour though. Just learn to pay what you need to. You cant avoid paying the transaction fee but you can avoid paying HIGH transaction fees by doing these below
1) Wait for the network to be less congested (At midnight or during the weekend) this is often when the transaction fee will go down
2) Go to btc.com and check the lastest transaction fee .Compare the prices and decide when is the best time to transfer.
3) Change a wallet to a wallet called Mycelium that allows you to set different prices for Transaction Fees that ranges from low-priority to high
In short, there is no way to AVOID paying anything but with some methods u can avoid paying HIGH fees
I don't think it makes a difference at time of day, or time of week. The mempool's current state doesn't really shift very much, and fee sampling wouldn't be affected by such short spikes or letdowns in usage. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't see a significant effect when mempool is at this size anyway. It's not reliable to use a wallet's inbuilt dynamic fee or priority fee - they are all estimates and can be wildly inaccurate as they don't seem to adjust well to network congestion. Better to learn to set your own fees manually, using a fee structure you determine on your own. |
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All the hacks and flash crashes, even the Coinbase Bitcoin Cash scandal - they may not have been direct inside jobs but they can always be pinpointed to someone on the inside, from facepalm moments to just pure ignorance and negligence (how the hot wallet could have so much in it, for example). You'd think Mt Gox would have already taught a lot of lessons, so it's pure lip service when exchanges say they're taking note and tightening up in the wake of such hacks (purported or otherwise).
I'm willing to bet a lot of operations like these run with shocking disregard for security and basic safety checklist measures. The human elements of being error-prone and eventual lapse of judgement is too high to not implement the strictest of controls.
What will be interesting from here: will the regulations have resulted in proper insurance? As far as I know, all approved exchanged, including Coincheck, should have been insured already.
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In my experience, no amount of due diligence will protect you if the service does decide to exit and abscond with your funds.
Then you are not investing, you are gambling, which is completely different. If you give an ico here money, you are gambling, it is that simple, because nobody would invest in something like that. You invest in equity behind real businesses and people, you gamble in coins, icos and stuff since you own nothing but a fake token. Legally, I have never seen a white paper where one of the coins even has to pay what they agreed to because of how they are written or because they were illegal to begin with and would be thrown out in court if you tried to sue. With equity you own part of the business and if something happens you are able to take control over it, and you would not invest in something where the business backing the money had no value so there is pretty much no risk there, just a little bit of time in court to force a company takeover or receivership. This all boils back to what I said though, that people here do not invest, and we can see this because of all the claims of scams. If they actually invested there would be no way to claim this because they would have everything backed legally and there is no way someone that invests would risk being countered for something like libel because you can be sued for calling people scammers until they have been criminally convicted. It is really hard to find real investments here because people are so easily scammed that businesses will not follow proper procedure since they know stupid people will still keep giving them money blindly. It is why I hope governments start to regulate things more. I do not care if someone stupid gets scammed but as an investor it is mostly a waste of time to try and find things here since they are almost all scams and those who are not scams still have no legal requirement to pay your portion of what they agreed to so you are just gambling in the hope that some stranger will do what they said... We can argue semantics but I actually agree with you in the sense that every investment, after all, is a gamble. There is never a guarantee of profit - every solid, sound investment prospective in conventional finance explicitly says so in so many fine print words. I'm not even talking about ICOs or any example you've given - the investments I've made don't involve owning anything, no tokens, no equity. Except for the work I do with start ups (which by your definition also means I'm gambling, and yes, in case you missed the point, you take gambles with start ups, since nothing is guaranteed). By your definition, are all the people who claimed scams to the national bank of Greece, or Enron, or any other sound, protected, insured, investment tool in fact gamblers who didn't really invest? Did Greeks gamble their life savings by entrusting it to their government and hoping it would do what it promised to (guarantee their deposits)? Like I said, as "real" as your investment can become, as solid as your due diligence can get, nothing can prevent things from folding if they do. |
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Yeah,bitcoin is really secured when compared to fiat currency,by means of getting stolen,by means of transaction over internet.But is is really not secured by means of it value.
Do you think so? Because I started to hear about hacked everywhere which is really insecure for us. And the number is not small, more than a million if you convert it. And they are not hack for some people like us who is really depends on a little bit profit from trading, most of the hacker always aim big bait which can really harm us. You can see recent updates about coincheck which has been hacked Don't confuse security systems getting compromised with the security of the Bitcoin network. The hacks (purported or legitimate) you read about have absolutely nothing to do with the security of Bitcoin itself. When an exchange is hacked, that means someone infiltrated their systems, and stole data from there that let them access wallets. Almost all the hacks you read about which result in the loss of Bitcoins has either been due to compromised networks or successful phishing attacks on individual users (where hackers steal data such as private keys or passwords). Theoretically, of course Bitcoin isn't 100% foolproof... but it would be economically unfeasible for anyone to launch any kind of attack in an attempt to "hack" the network. And this unfeasibility increases by the day as more miners and nodes come in to secure the network. There have been (correct me if I'm wrong) certain exploits successfully carried out in Bitcoin's early years... here's the 2010 "value overflow incident": https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Value_overflow_incident. |
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I'm in a sharing mood.
1. Unfortunately, the investments I've chosen to make online are all crypto-related and require me to entrust my funds entirely with the service. I know someone above has mentioned due diligence, signed contracts, etc. and this is the way to go if you're seriously investing a lot of money. In my experience, no amount of due diligence will protect you if the service does decide to exit and abscond with your funds. For those who were transparent (giving real names, addresses, etc.) and the business didn't do well, once cordial relationships tend to descend into drawn-out accusations and name-calling, without any actual resolution or even legal ramification.
I've come to terms that I will only invest with people I trust, yet understand that trust means little if things go tits up. After about a year (I've only been in crypto for 2 years but online much longer) of these kinds of investments, though, I now am moving towards investment of time and resource into working directly with start ups. The trust built there is more personal, and because I also have a say in how things work, the shared responsibility towards mutual success seems more secure to me. We all have money invested, and we all need to put effort into it. We're still pretty much "anonymous" in that regard - we don't know each other's identities and aren't bound by contracts but we are intimate with our individual abilities and history of working together.
2. Absolutely not, that's not investing. The closest I've ever come to doing that is when I gamble on lotteries.
3. I view cloud mining to be extremely risky.
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I had the pleasure of meeting up with nonnakip over the weekend in Las Vegas.  Always great to catch up personally and chat about the future of NastyFans. I see from the latest poll that while fans are divided, a majority would like to continue to focus on BTC and not alts. For this reason, I spent a majority of our LTC on the A3 miner and have immediately moved S9, D3, & L3+ miners over to NiceHash (the A3 miner will join them when it arrives): https://www.nicehash.com/miner/1NastyFRkeUTmMdbMmzggDVTQA6r3ibUoXSpeaking of the A3 miner, I have already received notification from Bitmain that it has been shipped! Hello Og, nonna. Just got some news to share of my own: received my coin. Actually came last week but had to retrieve it and pay a customs/tax fee (which came up to about a third of the coin's cost grumble). Very good weight, neat workmanship, it'll make a nice gift the next person I introduce Bitcoin to. Also just realised my account was terminated (forgot that I needed seats before it expires) - should I make a new one now or just get in touch directly with nonna? Didn't vote for the poll but would have gone for the majority decision (Bitcoin focus). Anyway, looking forward to learning more with NF, going to be a difficult year, but exciting nevertheless. P.S. Am not oblivious to all the unhappy discussions going on in this thread. Can't say much about it as I won't have the benefit of good context, but like my participation on this forum and other small groups, I think every interaction with a different community gives a unique learning perspective. It's natural that a lot of start ups and ventures will disappoint some, which is why my expectation is little more than to learn. |
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I'd consider the bitcoin.org list good enough, since it lists events it feels are relevant or reputable. Every conference is going by "blockchain" now but few are anything more than commercial events trying to gather more hype, promoting some project or other under the guise of professional networking. There's just so many events that there's probably one every day. I think in Asia and Southeast Asia alone, there's probably several going on simultaneously in the big capitals. FT.com's event list is probably also somewhat useful for financial tech... mainstream but you get a gist of what they feel is useful blockchain-wise: https://live.ft.com/Almost all the crypto news portals (like coindesk or coinidol) have an events page as well, but I generally see them as sponsored listings, i.e., likely to be low reputation. You can Google for "independent" calendars but they're mainly user-submitted, also I consider to have low quality. foxico.io is one |
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Bitcoin's "failure" to break below $10k, after testing $9k, is now proving to be further evidence of its resilience at around 10k. I'm now counting down the days til the end of February, where I'm hoping very much that the current trend continues. Looks like sideways or even bearish for a lot of people, but for me this is the perfect stabilisation period I've been waiting for. If it can keep this for two months, then it'll have found very firm footing at $10k - which is very good news for the rest of the year. I'd be prepared for 20k to never be tested for 2018, but I wouldn't mind at all new-found floors at $15k. We'll also be coming up to a "tenth anniversary", depending on how you see Bitcoin's birthday to be: whitepaper or genesis block. Very pleased with the performance of January so far.
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Roger Federer never allows himself to have it easy in any finals. Especially the last Australian Open when he was playing against Nadal. He had to take a medical timeout when he looked like he was going to lose it but then after the break (inwhich I think if he didn't take it he would of lost to Rafael and then my bet of 50mbtc would of won ah well. Would've, could've!) he came back like a phoenix out of the fire to win it easily. Sort of like this match which the final frame was 6-1 in Federer's favor He managed to do it yet again. The old dog in the tournament has his day! Congratulations Roger you can now retire and let the youngster have a go at it.  Ah, Fedex really made me happy two Grand Slams in a row, but yeah, I thought he could have given himself an easier time. Both were tired by the final so I thought RF would have tried to bring it to a quick end, guess the Croatian wasn't quite ready to give up so easily. I said last year he had at least 1 left in him, and am happy to have bet on him having yet another. Probably best time to retire like you say while he's on a high but so tempting to have money on him again if he joins another tourney... the way he turns back the clock would make anyone get the shivers! My betting's been really crap for the Women's, (even last year) so I should really probably stick to men's from now on. |
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Sorry am not quoting everyone, already a pretty long quote string! But I was drawn to the last few discussions on AI designed for deception - I wonder if there would be any conflict with some of the Ethically-Aligned Design (EAD) treaties already drawn up by organisations like IEEE. I know there are already steps towards advocating compliance within medical fields for example, though of course none of this has resulted in regulations.
Could AI be designed to still be ethical while being good in a game like poker (or even chess?). If one threw the ethics rulebook out, could not one deploy a similar AI to online poker rooms and just defeat reliably all human opponents?
@kryptorian: AI does work a little like you mention, in that it is like a human brain. It can only learn what it is taught, but there are becoming more and more capable of self-learning (or self teaching). But no, AI cannot yet determine moral or value judgment without predefined codes of conduct, at least not in practice - but EAD AI tries to create such that form values based on learning rather than a set universal code. The challenge is to get them to process context.
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