What the hell do you need an alternative for? You apparently have magic money, just go enjoy it.
... I can transfer any amount of money intra-bank within my country for free. I can also withdraw cash and pay cash for free. Whay pay $0.10 per transaction once BTC0.0005 equals so much?
Are you sure about that? I have to pay about 3 EUR a month just for 'having' my regular payment bank account (which is the cheapest option). All banks are "free" in the UK and many offer interest free overdrafts if you pay in over a certain amount. I can transfer up to £10,000 a day instantly to other UK bank accounts for free. Withdrawals are free most cash machines are. Tho every transaction over your agreed limit costs £25 and if a direct debit doesn't go through because you are overdrawn it costs £30 each time the payment try's to go though. The - http://lawfulbank.com/ - is a much better idea as it will get rid of the "banksters" and put more money in peoples hands by stopping money be sucked out of the economy by the banks profits and bonuses. |
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WOW. I really don't understand what you are doing here and using Bitcoin when you have such a great service from the banks on your country. I figure they just let you have an account for free also, no yearly maintenance fees and such, right?
That's correct with a free overdraft too but I have to pay a fee if I go over the agreed limit. Tho hopefully this is my next bank - http://lawfulbank.com - http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=H9HivlOAMqsThe Lawful Bank provides a gateway to 'The Alternative Monetary System' (TAMS) - a new and independent monetary and banking system owned and controlled by its users/members. The objective of TAMS is to create its own liquidity (money) for the benefit of the people of the nations that choose to use it... and by so doing, reassert the sovereign right of the people to self-governance - for a nation cannot truly govern itself unless it is in full control of the means by which its money is created.
That most nations around the world do not control their own money supply is not well known - but it should be - and it is our intention therefore to educate as many people as possible about this issue and explain its significance in terms of the impact it has on our freedoms.
TAMS has been developed to counter the destructive modern-day banking system that is the sole cause of the massive debt mountains that are now the burden of virtually every nation on this planet. It is our contention that people should be educated to the fact that the national debt would not exist if the creation of money was directly controlled by our elected government and that also, if this were the case, the taxes we pay could be dramatically reduced.
TAMS provides the means by which national debt mountains can be extinguished - for the universal benefit of us all - by creating streams of positive financial liquidity in the hands of the people - instead of the streams of negative debt that have been placed on the shoulders of national governments and which are being paid for by ever-increasing taxes. It is a statement of fact that these debt mountains were entirely unnecessary and exist simply because the political elite in national governments have been 'persuaded' (some would say bribed) to hand over the control of their nation's money supply to the international banking cartel. In our view this is nothing short of criminal collusion.
"I sincerely believe the banking institutions having the issuing power of
money, are more dangerous to liberty than standing armies."
Thomas Jefferson
Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation,
and I care not who makes its laws.
Mayer Amschel Rothschild
YOU can help change things.
Please click here to sign up to the Lawful Bank now. (Read the details at your leisure.) Please note, you are not making a commitment at this stage, you are merely expressing an interest, which will provide us with an early indication of the level of support that we might expect. The success of TAMS depends on our ability to co-ordinate our efforts and work to a common agenda to take back control of the means of money production and by so doing - reassert our sovereign rights.
The lawful Bank, serves as a conduit to TAMS via this web site. By signing up to The lawful Bank you will (in due course) avail yourself of the benefits of membership of this unique monetary and banking system, the essence of which is to distribute to the people the grotesque profits being skimmed by greedy bankers from the nation's economy.
TAMS, with no shareholders to satisfy, is able to distribute all profits to its members and provide benefits that no other system can provide (see benefits below).
The fundamental principle of TAMS is that each nation's money supply should be in the hands of the people, for the benefit of the people - and not controlled by privately owned central banks, as is the case with the present international monetary/banking system.
Understanding money, its creation and the means by which the main political parties are controlled is vital to understanding the controls that the banking cartel places on each one of us personally by virtue of the control that the banking fraternity imposes on our system of government.
An honest government would take back control of the money supply.
We would like people to start asking the question
'Why don't they?
The answer is of course that the political establishment is universally in the pocket of the banking fraternity and that this is the sole reason why so many politicians end up with lucrative directorships or consultancies with and for the banks.
An honest politician that voted in favour of taking back control of the production of our money supply, for the benefit of the nation, would not make a single penny from that decision... but the same cannot be said for voting for the status quo - i.e. leaving the production of the money supply in the hands of a private banking cartel... which rewards its sponsors (politicians) very well indeed.
TAMS Member Banks.
All banks that are members of TAMS have the capacity to offer a range of unique benefits to its members because it operates independently of the existing system - i.e. beyond the control and influence of the interest based global system.
TAMS recognises the absolute sovereign rights of the individual and the sovereign rights of nations as created by the voluntary joining together of individuals of like-mind and shared national ambition and objectives.
TAMS has been created as a tool to serve the interest of sovereign men or women and to help assert global freedom.
Any group of individuals from any nation may establish their own independent bank and sign up to the TAMS charter... which confirms its universal ownership by its users, to be operated in accordance with the principles agreed by the majority of its members.
TAMS is managed in accordance with these principles by a team elected by the membership on the basis of one member one vote. The managers of TAMS are not born into their position or come to it via membership of an exclusive international club of elites.
The benefits TAMS will offer: -
Interest free loans for home purchase - subject to an arrangement fee only.
Interest free loans for businesses - subject to an arrangement fee only.
Interest free loans for cars and other household goods - subject to an arrangement fee only.
Interest free funds for community projects - subject to an arrangement fee only.
Bonded car insurance - at massively reduced annual premiums - approx £100 per vehicle - subject to payment of a security bond of about £500. There are no investors to pay.
Higher interest payments to deposit accounts - achieved through direct loans to other members.
A large network of community branches.
A positive credit system - for every £1 of cash deposited, each member creates £10 credit in their account. This credit (created by the system) on the back of the cash deposited is the property of the member and thus not a debt to the member. This will provided streams of credit to the system - and not debt.
To name just a few of the many benefits available.
TAMS also operates in conjunction with The Common Law Courts and The New Land Registry.
Please sign up now
It is a formidable undertaking to try and explain The Alternative Monetary System (TAMS) and its benefits in a few short paragraphs - suffice it to say at this point in time that the benefits are real and substantial. We invite individuals to sign up and take the time to read a more detail explanation of how the system works at your leisure... including how you can set up your own profit making branch in your community.
IMPORTANT: TAMS is not currently in operation... the system, although fully developed will not be activated until it has a minimum number of members in order for it to function effectively and for the maximum benefit for members - we are inviting YOU to join now and help make up the critical mass of members that we need.
This is a people based project that needs individuals to sign up so that through the collective power of the many, each one of us may benefit individually... but we need NUMBERS to breathe life into this project - we need your support.
Please sign up now (use secure login link on the left)
There is nothing to pay at this point in time. When there are enough members signed up, sufficient to make the system viable... we will email every member and ask them to pay a one-time-only subscription of £10 (or international equivalent) - to help pay for the operational costs of the system. At this time also we will have in place a board of directors voted for by the members for the proper and transparent administration of these funds.
The Lawful Bank is the first of many 'new banks' to come. The Lawful Bank is a partnership between 'The British Constitution Group' and 'The World Freeman Society.'
At the very heart of TAMS is the principle that a nation's monetary/banking system should be owned and control by that nation, for the benefit of the people. TAMS is an alternative to the present private banking system because national governments refuse to recognise their obligation to act in the best interest of the citizens. TAMS is owned by its members and membership is available to every individual as a right, not a privilege and without restriction.
TAMS operates internationally and gives easy access to low-cost international monetary transfers. In each case, access is via a nationally controlled network of branches, owned and controlled by small groups and communities. These small groups and communities control TAMS through an elected committee who hire and fire the managers of TAMS. The whole system is controlled from the bottom up by members through the democratic process of one vote per member. There are no block votes.
There are no investors to satisfy and no high flying executives on million pound/dollar salaries or city slickers on astronomical bonuses. Our system plays no part in casino banking. TAMS is both safe and cost effective and serves the interest of the sovereign aspirations of individuals.
TAMS is a mirror image of the existing monetary system - it is tried and tested... but with a crucial difference in that there is an entirely different approach as to where the profits are delivered. In the existing system, the profits go to investors, and the people running the bank - with our system the profits are distributed to our members.
Operating an honest banking system is not rocket science... it is merely a record keeping exercise. The complication of banking only arises on the coattails of the deceit and corruption employed by the present system. TAMS steers clear of the greed that has now become the hallmark of today's banking system... and the casino mentality that drives it.
It is the irrefutable fact that the near collapse of the world's financial system (which is still a possibility) is directly attributable to the banking fraternities focus on profit, greed and the gambling mentality the pervades in the banking industry.
In contrast and in a similar vain to co-operative banking and mutual societies - TAMS uses the power of a large number of members to generate the benefits that each individual member can tap into. Achieving a large membership is the hurdle we must overcome in order to get our alternative system up and running - i.e. we need a critical mass of members to sign up to maximise the benefits available.
Please sign up now
(use secure login link on the left )
If you have any questions... please feel free to ask, we will endeavour to answer these as quickly as is humanly possible. Email - see bottom of page
Freeman perspective. Disclaimer: Please note, if you see the word 'register' within the site, this is because the software does not allow us to change it. In acknowledgement of the meaning of this word in freeman circles, you are advised that this is not an attempt to deprive you of ownership, disempower you or deprive you of your freedom. (Note: I think I have most them changed now. -Admin)
TAMS
TAMS charter. (Please note that this is work in progress)
The Alternative Monetary System (TAMS) is the hub of a network of autonomous branches, each owned by
members of their local communities. No one member can have an interest in more than 3 branches. It is this
extensive network of autonomous community based branches that controls the operation of the hub and not
the other way around - thus ensuring that the hub functions for the benefit of all users/members and that
control of the system can never fall into the hands of a small minority. Any attempts by any individual to
influence more than 3 branches will result in a life-long ban as a branch director.
All branches are profit centres... that is, they are run by their board directors with the aim of making a profit.
Revenues come from earning a range of fees from a variety of services, including providing loans and
insurance.
The system provides interest free loans... and the branches charge a fee to arrange same.
Borrowers must pay a fee of 10% of the loan value.
If borrowers do not have the 10% fee - they may make arrangements to borrow the fee from other members,
and will be required to pay 10% interest to the lending member and a fee to the Branch.
Anybody can start a branch. Individuals who wish to do so must comply with the start-up rules and find 5
other members to form a board of directors whose job it will be to uphold the integrity and honesty of their
branch and to operate in compliance with the rules. 3 directors of each branch must be property owners to 'anchor' their branch at a known location.
Paul
WFS Global Administrator
Email : paul@lawfulbank.com
http://lawfulbank.com/Bit off-topic I suppose but a good read for UK forum readers. I asked one of there admin to accept bitcoin deposits and they said that was a good idea  |
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WOW. I really don't understand what you are doing here and using Bitcoin when you have such a great service from the banks on your country. I figure they just let you have an account for free also, no yearly maintenance fees and such, right?
That's correct with a free overdraft too but I have to pay a fee if I go over the agreed limit. |
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If you don't like paying $0.01 or $0.05 for tx fee you can always use Paypal and pay $0.35+3.5%
I can transfer any amount of money intra-bank within my country for free. I can also withdraw cash and pay cash for free. Why pay $0.10 per transaction once BTC0.0005 equals so much?
How much does it cost to get a drivers license each year just so you can open a bank account ? The fees are there alright they are just really good at hiding them. I didn't have a driving license when I opened the account and they paid me £100 to open the account as I was a student just starting a MEng. |
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I can transfer any amount of money intra-bank within my country for free. I can also withdraw cash and pay cash for free. Whay pay $0.10 per transaction once BTC0.0005 equals so much?
How much time does that transaction take to be fully processed and how many docs did you have to provide? I just send my money from my bank to any other bank in the UK and it's usually instant or two hours at max. Or I just go to the cash machine or branch and withdraw cash. You only have to set up a bank account once in your life. Unless your saying relative high transaction fees are fair for anonymity OK but I see bitcoin being bigger than just a specialist anonymous payment network and being a general payment network enabling to dealing with milliBitcoin payments very cheaply. That's my idea of making 21,000,000 bitcoins into 210,000,000 bitcoins and keeping the BTC0.0005 fee. No change in value just a change in accounting and fees. |
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If you don't like paying $0.01 or $0.05 for tx fee you can always use Paypal and pay $0.35+3.5%
I can transfer any amount of money intra-bank within my country for free. I can also withdraw cash and pay cash for free. Why pay $0.10 per transaction once BTC0.0005 equals so much?
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Take the standard BTC figure off bold to fit in with text like $/€/£  |
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If you could spam around thousands of tiny transactions without fees well guess what a thousand attacks could spam around millions or billions of tiny transactions without fees and cripple the network. If the network determines your transaction is low priority then compliant nodes will refuse to relay your transaction without a fee. This isn't done for revenue purposes this is done to prevent someone creations billions or trillions of tiny transactions a bloating the block chain by gigabytes a day. It is a safety mechanism. Regarding MPESA last time I checked it isn't free. Even at $0.01 per tx bitcoin is significantly cheaper than MPESA. http://www.safaricom.co.ke/index.php?id=255About 25% of the cost at the smallest transaction and less than 1% of the cost at the high end. Well bitcoin survived and did well with below $0.001 transaction fees and I think anything above could cripple adoption in emerging markets and/or as a online micro payment. Yes block chain bloating needs to be solved if bitcoin is ever to become a major payment network. I can transfer any amount of money intra-bank within my country for free. I can also withdraw cash and pay cash for free. Whay pay $0.10 per transaction once BTC0.0005 equals so much? |
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The mandatory fee only applies to low priority transactions so by definition there would be no fee required for a high priority transaction.
The first time I went to use my online wallet at blockchain.info it warn's you to pay a transaction fee or risk your payment not being paid. Maybe I'm using a lame wallet not used the default wallet much. Tho if people are working in small amounts of coins the transaction fee seems very expensive. Yes it is very cheap compared to WU or international wire but I'm looking at trying to compete with MPESA as a default payment scheme. Lot's of very small amounts of coins moving very often in to and out of different wallets very often. |
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Since you seem to have difficulty reading .... Free transactions will always be possible. The mandatory fee is only imposed on low priority transactions. What about "high priority" low value transactions. Like someone buying a packet of cigarettes in Bangladesh with coins they have only recently received. |
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One cent per transaction is still a "very low transfer fee".
Not in Africa or South America it's not. They still charge deposits on glasses and glass bottles. If they can't afford to pay the >$0.05 fee they take there drink in a plastic bag. It's OK for all you early western adopters with BTC1000's balances who want to see $1,000 a coin but above $0.001 transaction fee is expensive. Bitcoin needs lots of small very cheap transactions not just a few expensive ones. I know a lot of you want to make bitcoin in to the new virtual eGold thats is very expensive and makes you rich but the bitcoin economy would be a lot better if it could include the transactions of developing counties. lower transaction fees = more transactions = bigger economy or you leaving that to lightcoin/altcoins to take bitcoins role Okay, then let's reduce the default transaction fees. Done. There's no need to completely revamp the Bitcoin protocol, hard fork every client in existence, and change the very definition of the word "bitcoin". Just that I reckon while devaluing the the transaction fee that devaluing the bitcoin unit of account not value may help long term with day to day accounting and general adoption. |
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Are you talking to yourself?
Can you leave the hyperbole & strawmen out of the discussion.
The reality is Stephen is right the mandatory fee is likely going to be irrelivent. Market forces will determine what the fee is. Users who want fast access are likely going to pay MORE than the minimum fee. Free transactions will always be possible. The mandatory fee is only imposed on low priority transactions. If you are willing to wait for sufficient coin age AND willing to wait for space in a block you can continue to use bitcoin without a fee.
Also I would like to put into perspective we are talking about a sub cent fee. A fractional cent. There is no other transaction system on the planet which is that cheap. None. Not even cash. Most banks impose a fee of 0.1% to 0.3% on cash deposits over some threshold on business accounts. If you have enough cash that you need armored car service the fee is even higher.
Even at $0.01 per tx (which requires BTC to be $200 not $20 BTW) Bitcoin is the cheapest payment system on the entire planet. The idea that it must be even cheaper to compete is laughable.
One cent per transaction is still a "very low transfer fee".
Not outside the wealthy western world it's not. lower transaction fees = more transactions = bigger economy or you leaving that to lightcoin/altcoins to take bitcoins role |
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One cent per transaction is still a "very low transfer fee".
Not outside the wealthy western world it's not. In lot's of places they still charge deposits on glasses and glass bottles. If they can't afford to pay the >$0.05 fee they take there drink in a plastic bag. It's OK for all you early western adopters with BTC1000's balances who want to see $1,000 a coin but above $0.0001 transaction fee is expensive. Bitcoin needs lots of small very cheap transactions not just a few expensive ones. I know a lot of you want to make bitcoin in to the new virtual eGold thats is very expensive and makes you rich but the bitcoin economy would be a lot better if it could include the transactions of developing counties. lower transaction fees = more transactions = bigger economy or you leaving that to lightcoin/altcoins to take bitcoins role |
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One cent per transaction is still a "very low transfer fee".
Not outside the wealthy western world it's not. In lot's of places they still charge deposits on glasses and glass bottles. If they can't afford to pay the >$0.05 fee they take there drink in a plastic bag. It's OK for all you early western adopters with BTC1000's balances who want to see $1,000 a coin but above $0.0001 transaction fee is expensive. Bitcoin needs lots of small very cheap transactions not just a few expensive ones. |
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If the bitcoin value keeps rising over the coming months to up to and over $20.00 a coin then each BTC0.0005 transfer fee would equal $0.01 and above. Talking about bitcoin having free or very low transfer fees wouldn't it be best to move the decimal place and make a bitcoin instead of worth $20.00 a coin but to $2.00 a coin keep the transfer fee BTC0.0005 and have 210,000,000 coins in total instead of 21,000,000 coins.
how about just change the default tx fee (as has been done in the past)? Maybe devaluing the bitcoin base rate by moving the decimal place to increase total coins to 210,000,000 instead of 21,000,000 is better. Making the value of a bitcoin seem cheaper and closer to the $/€/£ rate will help accounting and encourage investment. Either we lower the bitcoin default value or starting calling them milli-bitcoins or micro-bitcoins as unit of account. Inflating the amount of bitcoins is a good way to follow fiat money only we arn't devaluing. Lowering the bitcoin value once it plateaus above $20.00 a coin will help day to day accounting and adoption. |
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If the bitcoin value keeps rising over the coming months to up to and over $20.00 a coin then each BTC0.0005 transfer fee would equal $0.01 and above. Talking about bitcoin having free or very low transfer fees wouldn't it be best to move the decimal place and make a bitcoin instead of worth $20.00 a coin but to $2.00 a coin keep the transfer fee BTC0.0005 and have 210,000,000 coins in total instead of 21,000,000 coins.
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Intersango GBP deposits are usually fast but its now been over 24hrs since I made my transfer What happened to deposits being processes seven times a day Last withdrawal I made a month ago didn't go through for a good week or so until I contacted support and asked them about it. Not sure what the state of withdrawals is at the moment though. I'd definitely like to find out though as I've got coins waiting for a buyer... Contacted support and money cleared almost straight away. |
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Intersango GBP deposits are usually fast but its now been over 24hrs since I made my transfer What happened to deposits being processes seven times a day |
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Bird bones could splinter in the dogs throat. I know wolves and wild dogs would eat birds but there is a general rule not to feed dogs chicken bones. So I guess that goes for all bird bones?
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