So all this time gox suspended withdrawls while allowing trading it was knowingly trying to get back to solvency? lol
Yup, MtGox was trying to buy back the "lost coins" on the cheap. Actually, technicall that would be called "covering their short position". |
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Technically, the loss is actually Mt.Gox loss and the customer needs to be made whole. A custiodian of customer's property has no right to steal that customers property. Does not matter if it was fiat, gold, btc or coffee beans.
Nice idea but surely that's the point of bankruptcy, they cut their losses and liability and we all hope then they don't start over - potentially those at fault getting a ban from being owner or on executive of companies in that one country.. hence the move to Singapore mooted in that leaked plan. Bankruptcy protects a company from creditors. Customer deposits is not money that a company like Gox should be able to use or steal. So if these folks aren't made whole, then it is theft. This will be settles in a criminal court of law, not a civil one. |
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Were they stolen and still could be in circulation?
If the background to that rumour is true and its been actioned over a long period, then it's likely the perp sold the coins as they aquired them. That is, they're not sat there holding 750k BTC but rather the price over the last few years has been depressed by those being sold. The theft then only becomes obvious now and those who thought they had coins on MtGox didn't really hold anything (flashes of fiat reality in my head), coupled with that all holders of BTC who've been spending in the real world on product or back out to fiat, have lost money to those theiving. Which then is a good sign perhaps that the appitite for Bitcoins was sufficient to absorb that amount and still show a healthy rise. We'll have to wait and see now, if then the price of coins avaliable without MtGox interference, suggests there really is more demand than easy forged supply. Agree. That 750,000 BTC was ficticious supply. IMHO, Mt.Gox problem when they started selling 'naked short' BTC probably since late 2011. That is why they force the crash in April 2011, they were big time short and needed to cover. Technically, the loss is actually Mt.Gox loss and the customer needs to be made whole. A custiodian of customer's property has no right to steal that customers property. Does not matter if it was fiat, gold, btc or coffee beans. |
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Can someone please answer me this question.
I keep reading everywhere that Mt. Gox "Lost" 750k Bitcoins.
Did they lose them forever? Like when someone loses their private key, or hard drive crash.
Or
Were they stolen and still could be in circulation?
Thanks
IMHO, they were short short 750K bitcoins from at least two years ago. In other words, they sold the public Bitcoin that did not exist. The could not cover their short fall, so the claim is they lost 750K bitcoins. |
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Who wrote this?
That's a very good question. It's quite possible that it's fake. I've been bugging news outlets to insist that the guy who posted it post the actual file, not a link to scribd, so that forensic tools can be used on the source. It also might be something someone at Mt. Gox planted, to direct attention away from internal theft and discourage efforts to force what's left of Mt. Gox into bankruptcy now. it may be fake, but the latest development at gox (trading halted, site gone, twitter gone, the combined press release by other bitcoin actors, ..) makes me think its probably not. As for who wrote it; assuming its legit, it reads like something that a major shareholder or otherwise stake holder might write. Someone at the bitcoin foundation? Sure does explain the $100 price at gox though, someone with deep pockets knew. And that was always my fear, that the low price at gox wasnt caused by panic due to whats known publicly (made no sense) but by someone with big wallet and inside info. gox.com was domain was acquired yesterday by Mt.Gox. So who ever wrote this was privy to the actions of Mark Karpeles. I think Mark wants you to believe that Mt.Gox is being acquired.... unfortunately Gox.com is also Mark. |
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700,000 plus coins poof!
The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist. And like that, poof. He's gone. Actually, the document says they'll be out for 1 month and that they had already covered 50% of all coins. Like I said earlier, they were trying to cover their short position. |
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Well then it appears that the crisis draft was actually real! gox.com Is this your domain name? Renew it now. Domain Name: GOX.COM Registry Domain ID: 816800_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN Registrar WHOIS Server: whois.godaddy.com Registrar URL: http://www.godaddy.comUpdate Date: 2014-02-24 17:29:44 Creation Date: 1997-10-09 23:00:00 Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2017-10-08 23:00:00 Registrar: GoDaddy.com, LLC Registrar IANA ID: 146 Registrar Abuse Contact Email: abuse@godaddy.comRegistrar Abuse Contact Phone: +1.480-624-2505 Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited Domain Status: clientRenewProhibited Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited Registry Registrant ID: Registrant Name: Mark Karpeles Registrant Organization: Tibanne Co. Ltd. Registrant Street: Round Cross Shibuya 5F Registrant Street: 11-6 Shibuya 2-Chome Registrant City: Shibuya Registrant State/Province: 13 Registrant Postal Code: 150-0002 Registrant Country: Japan Registrant Phone: +0.345501529 Registrant Phone Ext: Registrant Fax: +0.3045206299 Registrant Fax Ext: Registrant Email: mark@tibanne.comRegistry Admin ID: Admin Name: Mark Karpeles Admin Organization: Tibanne Co. Ltd. Admin Street: Round Cross Shibuya 5F Admin Street: 11-6 Shibuya 2-Chome Admin City: Shibuya Admin State/Province: 13 Admin Postal Code: 150-0002 Admin Country: Japan Admin Phone: +0.345501529 Admin Phone Ext: Admin Fax: +0.3045206299 Admin Fax Ext: Admin Email: mark@tibanne.comRegistry Tech ID: Tech Name: Mark Karpeles Tech Organization: Tibanne Co. Ltd. Tech Street: Round Cross Shibuya 5F Tech Street: 11-6 Shibuya 2-Chome Tech City: Shibuya Tech State/Province: 13 Tech Postal Code: 150-0002 Tech Country: Japan Tech Phone: +0.345501529 Tech Phone Ext: Tech Fax: +0.3045206299 Tech Fax Ext: Tech Email: mark@tibanne.com |
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personally i don't believe that this could happen as there would be checks on the cold wallets if they really burned through that amount. That would add up to 100s of coins every single day of gox's existence. I'm not saying a large amount of funds isn't missing, I just don't believe it could amount to that much. Also, I can't find the original source for this claim anywhere..just reposts of the claim Really a ridiculous document. It appears to be asking the aid of the Bitcoin community so that Mt.Gox can start fresh. Mt.Gox is just an exchange, one of many exchanges. Why should the Bitcoin community care if it goes under? |
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Is Karpeles using Bitcoinbuilder to unload his GoxBux? The sell depth is massive, and it looks like there is one person selling 100BTC blocks at many price levels.
What the hell are you talking about? He can withdraw BTC anytime and sell it in any exchange. It is his customers that can't withdraw. |
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BitMine.ch coincraft machine in the wild!!!! Hi there, I'm a long time silent reader of this forum and I never posted anything. In fact I just registered few minutes ago because it's time to speak. Just to be clear, I'm not affiliated with Bitmine in any way, I'm not an employee, I'm not a shareholder. I'm just a customer, like you. I ordered my Desk just few minutes (or seconds?) after the opening, so I guess I was pretty high in the list. I choose the pickup delivery because I live not far away. Why I'm writing? Guess... because I finally have good news: this afternoon I picked up my machine! It's here, running in front of me. And it's delivering 1TH/s, as promised.   I had the chance to know the people that run the company. They are good guys, working hard to deliver a high technology machine. Think whatever you want, but they are not scammers. Just my 2 cents. |
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I must say that today I received a EUR 10,000 withdrawal that has been pending on MtGox from Jan 5 this year. Have some other withdrawals pending, but also reinvested some money in BTC at current low prices. I think bitcoin in the longer run will survive, so if Mt Gox also survives or is taken over by a competitor I might have decent gains on my last investments. If they don't suvive then I'm not convinced that I will recover a larger percentage of my cash than of my coins. If the coins then go back to the average value on the other exchanges, it might be better to be in coins. Or am I making a mistake in my reasoning?
You reason is correct. If MtGox under then you have claim to whatever percentage of coin or fiat they have left. So you might as well own the currency that is currently at lower value. If they survive, then BTC will go up 400% from its current value. In short, in the set of probable scenarios, own BTC is the way to go. |
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The following members are due up this week. Others should have been shipped. If you have received any miners or information, please let me know so that I can update the grid. I've reached out to the members whose orders were supposed to be shipped already. So far, I have received word from user Stan-O that his order #928 80Ghs unit has been received. Thx | Username | Order # | Date Ordered | Model # | Quantity | Shipping date promised | Received Y/N | | .......................... | ................ | ..................... | ................ | .................... | ......................... | ..................... | | NaranKPatel | 515 | 10.12.2013 | 1.2 | 1 | Feb 24,25, 26 | N | | NaranKPatel | 519 | 10.15.2013 | 1.2 | 1 | Feb 24,25, 26 | N | | wtiger127 | 521 | 10.14.2013 | 1.2 | 1 | Feb 24,25, 26 | N | | russellthies | 541 | 10.23.2013 | 1.2 | 1 | Feb 24,25, 26 | N | | clenell | 610 | 11.11.2013 | 1.2 | 1 | Feb 26,27, 28 | N | | rzrminer | 640 | 11.12.2013 | 1.2 | 1 | Feb 26,27, 28 | N | | cowpiboy | 666 | 11.14.2013 | 520 | 1 | Feb 26,27, 28 | ? | | cowpiboy | 671 | 11.15.2013 | ? | ? | Feb 26,27, 28 | order cancelled | | cowpiboy | 672 | 11.15.2013 | 520 | 1 | Feb 26,27, 28 | ? | | captin crunch | 676 | 11.15.2013 | 1.2 | 1 | Feb 26,27, 28 | N | | cicask8ers | 686 | ? | 1.2 | 1 | Feb 26,27, 28 | N | | ? ? ? ? ? ? ? | 699 | 11.16.2013 | 1.2 | 1 | Feb 26,27, 28 | N - friend of captin crunch |
AMT... we are rooting for you to start delivery of them 1.2 THs miners!!! Don't dissappoint!!! |
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More good news, JPY withdraws from MtGox are now INSTANT (actually true, not kidding here). Yep, if you want to take JPY out of MtGox now then you get it immediately.
- MtGox price premium was +25% above other exchanges.
- JPY was the only method to get fiat out which was relatively fast.
- JPY withdraws got more and more delayed as more and more requested to get JPY out.
- JPY withdraw delays topped at around 30 days as documented in the thread about JPY withdraws.
- MtGox price crashes and goes to $100 (below for a short period)
- People start sending JPY into MtGox to buy "cheap" goxcoins
- JPY withdraws are now INSTANT.
Could it be more obvious that MtGox is using new deposits to pay out withdraws?
Well, the want to keep the price of BTC low so that Mt.Gox can buy it themselves. For Mt.Gox to avoid jail time, they have to show that there books are all squared. So anybody with fiat gets to withdraw. Anyone with BTC can withdraw, but they have to sell it to fiat at 1/4th of its value. |
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Now you know why bitmine.ch was actually delayed... the Chinese manufacture that was actually making the chip, decided they wanted the first batch for themselves... Why do you think they offered to manufacture the chips for them. (I bet it is Avalon's same factory hiding under a fake name. lol.) Mysteriously, 1 months of production is "held-back" at the MFG's... They tell Bitmine.ch, Oops, we had a bad run, your chips are coming soon... BTW, mind if we see your schematics for your boards, while you wait for us to make your chips for you... again...  This is why you NEVER go that path. No-one has ever had good results going that path. Don't tell them it is an ASIC/BTC chip design... tell them it is just an advanced multi-linked 555-timer with time-slip calculations for measuring the speed of snow-fall, or some other useless thing they won't be tempted to steal for themselves. After-all, they do MFG the chips... I am sure they will figure out how to use it, if they know what it actually is. Not hard to throw them off, with dead-zones in the chip that actually do nothing, and consume little space. The govt had people all around the world building things, that they didn't know what they were. Just gave them plans, and said build this... (They didn't even know they were building a massive floating bridge and barge, designed to reach the coast from miles away. They were even forced to sink the created pieces, so no-one knew that they were being made, until they were all made and ready to use. Then they floated-up and were sent to war. lol. Failed though... But the production idea worked great!) When you develop covert things, you need to be covert about it. When you are that open, you just set yourself up for disaster, because those who produce ti for you, already have a big advantage as they are not paying crazy overpriced prices for their own production, like they charge you. That, and they are the ones producing, so you are guaranteed to get anything you asked for, after they take what they want for themselves. Lesson learned, new models with new technology will be out soon... Hopefully a lot more covert in nature, in the production phase. LOL, do the "apple" approach... program in bugs, that cause failure, only you have the "correction-chips" and "correction-code" for it to operate normally. Problem thwarted. I think you need to differentiate the chip manufacturers from the folks that do the chip assembly. Who is stealing? |
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Karpeles resigning and the reset Twitter accounts is because Karpeles will announce this week that he will no longer be the CEO of MtGox. There will be a professional CEO at the head of Gox who will (try to) make MtGox again a succesfull exchange.
I have no insider info, just my guess.
Wishful thinking. I don't know what will happen but this appears unlikely to me. I can see three scenarios: - Hard bankruptcy, remaining fiat and bitcoins are shared out in proportion after losses are deducted
- Takeover by another company with deep coffers (not too likely, in my view, because Mt. Gox does not look very attractive)
- Mt. Gox wriggles through and comes out solvent, perhaps barely solvent, and continues to pay out slowly (also wishful thinking, but not entirely impossible).
The loss of reputation would be difficult to reverse, so I find it hard to see any rosy future for Mt. Gox. Agree with your points although I don't think Gox would be that unattractive. An outside investor would see a huge client base and an opportunity to turn things around. +1 Mt.Gox play right now is to purposely destroy its own reputation so that it can acquire back BTC. This make allow them to claim that they never lost customers money. Doing otherwise will lead to criminal charges and prison time. So that will happen, every time mtgox BTC rises, they will do what they can to squash the rumors that they are going to make it. That is what they did on purpose, resign for bitcoin fondation and delete twitter messages. That is after a short squeeze occured on Saturday. |
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It basically says that have stolen a small quantity of chipsfrom the bitmine factory in china. They plan to make 47 miners and want to mine with them first and sell them and deliver them late. They say they are creating fake companies here in this forum to try and pre-sell them. The go on to mention they need time and money to try and make the miners work. They want to stop AMT and Bitmine from selling and they claim to be paying 15 bitcoins a week to write bad things about these two companies. They go on to try and coax me into working with them because they I am Chinese and its my duty.
So, they plan to make 47 miners that they might be able to charge a total of 400BTC for. Yet they're willing to pay you 15BTC/week to slag Antminer/Bitmain, which will have almost no effect of the amount of hardware they deliver, even less effect on the amount that is added to the whole network, and no effect on the price they'll be able to command for their miners? Yeah, that's believable. Agree.. not believable on the pay-to-slander part. AMT and Bitmine are already doing a great job destroying their own reputations. |
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It is probably illegal to pay out to one party to the detriment of others if you are technically bankrupt, i.e. if you have less value on hand than you owe.
Wrong. There is always some seniority ranking on who gets paid and who does not is the case of Bankruptcy. But the law certainly does not prescribe first-come-first-served. Hell yes, that's what seniority is all about! |
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