"The biggest individual holders of gold—central banks, international entities and governments—are believed to account for approximately 16.5 percent of the world's gold, holding about 30,700 tons." http://www.cnbc.com/id/33242464/The_World_s_Biggest_Gold_Reserves?slide=1and these are the entities most interested in NOT seeing the price of gold rise. and yet you are seeing record levels of investment from individuals, funds, etf's, speculators, etc. all risking a huge selloff from the CB's/gov'ts. why then should you fear the large holders of Bitcoin all of whom probably want to see the price rise? |
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If bitcoin never becomes a successful currency for trade, then please dont call it an investment, because it has no inherent value without trade. Call it what it is then, an online casino chip.
i'm not so sure about that. i think it has backing, as in by the network, which secures and verifies its tx's as well as its existence. it also has value in transferring the currency around the world and across borders. |
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Of course, that is a long way from where we are now, but I expect that merchants will start to use some time-averaged exchange rates for pricing their goods and services. Maybe once exchanges start to offer reasonably priced options/futures for Bitcoin...
Ah. But how could those futures be reasonably priced if speculation creates such insane volatility? And BTC trade in general and stable BTC denominated prices in particular will never become common when price swings are this high. This is the catch 22: the economy needed for prices to stabilize is hampered severely by speculation induced volatility. And just as bad, this volatility is a vicious circle because high volatility attracts more gamblers speculators. It will be at the very least challenging for bitcoin to overcome this. Also, as to the comparison with oil/$; you might not care how much oil costs denominated in dollar if you get paid in btc and pay most of your bills in btc, but if btc were that common by then, oil and other good would be priced in btc, and value fluctuations of btc would directly impact prices. This is happening today in our dollar/euro/whatever economy, because of speculators gambling on oil, commodity, gold and even food, price swings are considerable even if the currencies are relatively stable. When you add to that a currency thats unregulated and a free target for unlimited speculation, I just dont see how that will work. Your bread will cost 1 BTC one day and 20 next week. Never mind what you'd have to pay for imported good from countries where they dont denominate in BTCs. you could very well be getting your wish. we seem to be stabilizing here in the 2 range. we'll see how long that lasts. but you have to consider that Bitcoins long term fx might just be as an investment as opposed to a currency. ideally it would be both but it could end up like gold whose major component of monetary injection is in the form of investment money (speculative). not something you as a merchant want to hear or can control but certainly something to consider. |
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Zhou:
i am optimistic for your long clients. its RISK ON time!
1. stocks up
2. USD down
3. UST's down-HUGE source of money.
4. commodities: energy, oil, gold, silver up
5. historic move out of sovereign bonds into equity and risk plays (Bitcoin)
6. VIX heading down. VIX spiked up 6x but returned to near baseline before final big spike in late 2008.
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look, i may be naive by saying that officials here in the US just can't do anything they want to do. they can't just start throwing Bitcoiners in jail and outlawing everything in sight contrary to their goals.
like anything else, the politics of gov't are a balance here in the US altho i agree they've swung a bit to the alarming side.
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Hi Zhoutong,
It's taken me a while to go from hating to loving Bitcoinica. I was very often not quite sure what each feature did and I risked loss just experimenting. I feel comfortable with the order types and mechanisms, but I still think the UX and explanations could be better.
For example, when I set a Stop Loss: "Your order is executed when the market price is higher (buying), lower (selling) or equal than your specified price." Is the market price the average between bid and ask, or the ask when selling, or...?
Cheers,
Netrin
it would be the last executed price. |
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why does Don spend so much of his valuable talk time talking about the mtgox hack?
less than 1 minute? Know what a random stranger said to me in the street recently: "Bitcoins? Didn't they get raided recently. Lost all their money." look, i support you guys since you've done so much for the technology. but if you're going to promote Bitcoin publicly why not hire a spokesperson who understands basic economics and the problems of the financial world who can clearly articulate why Bitcoin was invented and how it solves these same problems in layman's terms? the money spent would yield a far greater return than trying to get friendly "regulation" which is a useless pursuit. |
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no, Gavin gave a talk in the CIA's Lion Den last June (?) when the price was way higher than now. if they were gonna cart him away they'd have done it by now.
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obviously, but 10:1 you're net short otherwise you wouldn't be getting so angry at a Bull like me who keeps messing up your grand plans.
What "grand plans" do I have that you don't, exactly? I'm not angry at anyone. Your predictions are fine, I'm only showing the hypocrisy of your position: If you care about the price rising, you care about making money on your investment. If you care about making money, you shouldn't care about making it on the way up, or on the way down. You have always been the "childish" speculator you so deride. hey, read what you write. you're the one who started the childish personal attacks. not me. all i've done is state the bullish case and stuck to it. you can't handle it. |
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simple tip: don't call the Bitcoin Client a client. for simple folk, its a "program" just like every other software program a non coder buys off the shelf.
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why does Don spend so much of his valuable talk time talking about the mtgox hack? altho i know he has good intentions he still cannot present Bitcoin in the proper needed manner.
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i think his conviction was justified. if you've ever looked at the Liberty Dollars he was issuing, they look just like real ones. Exactly. I think a photo will help.  He was convicted because he was selling coins which were deceptively similar to US legal tender, using language that indicate a connection to US govt, and deceptively using less precious metal than face value of coin. For example the $10 silver coin had ~$6 worth of silver in it. Language on the website indicated that the coins were backed by silver and could be redeemed for silver certifercite. What wasn't mentioned is that redeeming a $10 coin (purchased for $10 USD) would get you a $6 silver cert which could be redeemed for an equivelent amount in silver based on spot prices. It was fraud and it is a poor example to illustrate the legality of Bitcoin. thank you. i was hunting around for that exact pic but couldn't find it. |
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Bitcoin is legal under current US law.
You have a source or link for that? Like I said, IANAL, but read this:
Whoever, except as authorized by law, makes or utters or passes, or attempts to utter or pass, any coins of gold or silver or other metal, or alloys of metals, intended for use as current money, whether in the resemblance of coins of the United States or of foreign countries, or of original design, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or bothhttp://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/486.htmlTrue, thats about physical coins. But there is more:
NORFED’s "Liberty Dollar" medallions are specifically marketed to be used as current money in order to limit reliance on, and to compete with the circulating coinage of the United States. Consequently, prosecutors with the United States Department of Justice have concluded that the use of NORFED’s "Liberty Dollar" medallions violates 18 U.S.C. § 486, and is a crime.http://www.usmint.gov/pressroom/index.cfm?flash=yes&action=press_release&id=710That really doesnt seem to rhyme with your (interpretation of ?) law. even the Medallions you've quoted are physical also. i don't get your point how Bitcoins are illegal based on these references. |
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i usually stay away from the Spec forum to avoid idiots like you but its kinda fun to mess up all the planned Bear raids.
Keep it coming, friend. You may yet reach Atlas status. said like a true short seller. Uh, I'm holding a long position. Don't you look like an idiot. obviously, but 10:1 you're net short otherwise you wouldn't be getting so angry at a Bull like me who keeps messing up your grand plans. |
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not to mention the recent Utah statute that legalizes gold and silver. |
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i think his conviction was justified. if you've ever looked at the Liberty Dollars he was issuing, they look just like real ones. |
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i usually stay away from the Spec forum to avoid idiots like you but its kinda fun to mess up all the planned Bear raids.
Keep it coming, friend. You may yet reach Atlas status. said like a true short seller. |
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i might just take you up on that.
actually i've decided i'm rooting for you now at the expense of the shorts @Bitcoinica. i hope you tighten that algorithm up so tight that guys like BitMagic get bitch slapped on the next few spikes UP.
he's a dummy not realizing that its you or him in an illiquid delayed situation where you have all the power. i can't wait.
 What makes you think I only hold short positions?  I know you're mad that people are making money where you can't. It's ok, because I am enjoying watching you act like a child. i'd say the children like you here on the Spec Forum just aren't used to having a Bull around to mess up your short positions. i'm loving the rage. edit: now i know how BitcoinExpress feels! |
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Roger, you're the Man!  |
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play money.
We don't need your kind here.
^^^ I think bulls and bears, we both agree on that. stop your crying. you're being ridiculous. |
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