Bitcoin Forum
June 20, 2024, 07:40:17 PM *
News: Voting for pizza day contest
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: « 1 ... 826 827 828 829 830 831 832 833 834 835 836 837 838 839 840 841 842 843 844 845 846 847 848 849 850 851 852 853 854 855 856 857 858 859 860 861 862 863 864 865 866 867 868 869 870 871 872 873 874 875 [876] 877 878 879 880 881 882 883 884 885 886 887 888 889 890 891 892 893 894 895 896 897 898 899 900 901 902 903 904 905 906 907 908 909 910 911 912 913 914 915 916 917 918 919 920 921 922 923 924 925 926 ... 970 »
17501  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: October 04, 2011, 05:29:06 PM
no more innovation here:


17502  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: October 04, 2011, 01:57:00 PM
@misreality:  in case you hadn't noticed, this is not just a gold thread; this is a thread about world economics.
17503  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: October 04, 2011, 01:52:13 PM
we are going to get a spectacular dump in the gold price very soon. 
17504  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: October 04, 2011, 01:46:14 PM
are the charts still lying?
17505  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: October 04, 2011, 01:30:44 PM
how much pain are you willing to sustain?
17506  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: October 04, 2011, 05:42:26 AM



http://www.zerohedge.com/news/gold-silver-speculative-longs-plunge-march-2009-levels


http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/2011/10/october-3-2011-commodities-and.html

"This does not represent our position, which is based on the powerful impact of bubble psychology, rather than on supply and demand. In contrast, we would argue that for commodity price to fall a long way, and very quickly too, it is not necessary for demand to exceed supply, especially by any significant margin.

Changes in supply and demand do not typically occur rapidly, but changes in perception certainly do, and it is perception that drives markets. If the fundamentals of supply and demand were responsible for setting prices, we would not see price collapses over a matter of months, yet this is exactly what we saw in 2008."

this is the type of non linear thinking i employ.

Article tl;dr. The gist is that credit is contracting and commodity prices will fall with it. If I'm not mistaken, this thread is about gold, not oil. Oil is primarily a consumable commodity; gold is not.

Nicole Foss is the author of that post and this article applies to gold/silver as well as other commodities.

did you bother reading this post of mine:
http://www.hussmanfunds.com/wmc/wmc111003.htm

"The way you spot a thoughtful economist, in my view, is to listen for an understanding of both data analysis and equilibrium. In our experience, most economists and Wall Street analysts seem to analyze the economy as what I'd call a "flow of anecdotes" - weekly unemployment claims did this, retail sales did that, we got a positive surprise here, and so forth, without putting that information into any real structure and without knowing which data points actually matter or in what combination. In contrast, good economists think about the economy as a system - where multiple sectors interact. We tend to use words like "equilibrium" and "syndrome" when we talk about economic data - emphasizing that the best signals involve a whole conformation of evidence, not one or two indicators, where the data - in combination - captures a particular signature of recession or recovery."

you cannot evaluate gold in a vacuum.  it very much is influenced by multiple sectors and their interactions.  to ignore the widespread deflation going on worldwide is ludicrous.


Gold is reasserting a monetary role: it is being propelled to act as cash, especially in reserve capacity, and therefore will provide a basis for pricing rather than having a price attached to it; relative pricing will be determined by the base of available gold the same way we currently use the USD base money supply.

It doesn't matter if the average person doesn't use gold in daily exchange. Large businesses, cross-regional or international transactions may be conducted in grams or ounces instead of dollars and Euros. That would provide the solid golden base layer upon which fiat acts as a representative instead of the backward system today.

This is psychology in conjunction with supply & demand; non-linear. Reco'nize, son!

Misreality's Emerging Market Update:

All equity markets have been tumbling, what's your point? We already agreed that contraction is the flavor of the month. The charts are just prices yet again (at least with volume, but that's decreasing which suggests the downtrend is slowing) and the point of contention is still gold. I consider news of insatiable demand for gold as far more relevant to the topic.

i really think gold doesn't get this far.  with the ferociousness of the upward move in the USD along with worldwide and especially emerging mkt deflation its only a matter of time before gold gets dragged down just like silver and the stocks. 
17507  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: October 04, 2011, 02:11:28 AM
Misreality's Emerging Market Update:

China:



Emerging Mkt ETF:



Brazil:

17508  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: October 04, 2011, 02:02:37 AM
http://www.hussmanfunds.com/wmc/wmc111003.htm

"The way you spot a thoughtful economist, in my view, is to listen for an understanding of both data analysis and equilibrium. In our experience, most economists and Wall Street analysts seem to analyze the economy as what I'd call a "flow of anecdotes" - weekly unemployment claims did this, retail sales did that, we got a positive surprise here, and so forth, without putting that information into any real structure and without knowing which data points actually matter or in what combination. In contrast, good economists think about the economy as a system - where multiple sectors interact. We tend to use words like "equilibrium" and "syndrome" when we talk about economic data - emphasizing that the best signals involve a whole conformation of evidence, not one or two indicators, where the data - in combination - captures a particular signature of recession or recovery."

who here thinks this way?
17509  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: October 04, 2011, 01:57:58 AM
http://theautomaticearth.blogspot.com/2011/10/october-3-2011-commodities-and.html

"This does not represent our position, which is based on the powerful impact of bubble psychology, rather than on supply and demand. In contrast, we would argue that for commodity price to fall a long way, and very quickly too, it is not necessary for demand to exceed supply, especially by any significant margin.

Changes in supply and demand do not typically occur rapidly, but changes in perception certainly do, and it is perception that drives markets. If the fundamentals of supply and demand were responsible for setting prices, we would not see price collapses over a matter of months, yet this is exactly what we saw in 2008."

this is the type of non linear thinking i employ.
17510  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: October 03, 2011, 11:01:05 PM
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/quote?ticker=.TEDSP:IND

no data here.
17511  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: October 03, 2011, 09:48:26 PM
I wanted a picture of your USD notes but you didn't show any.

LOL!  you and misreality deserve each other.
17512  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: October 03, 2011, 08:46:16 PM
hey Matthew.  you still like this picture right?

you know what comes next don't you?

17513  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: October 03, 2011, 08:05:26 PM
turns out the break of the retailers and momos i brought attention to a few days back was a major sign of an impending market break.  good luck guys.
17514  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: October 03, 2011, 08:03:16 PM
ALL major indices except NDX under the 8/9/11 lows.  This is a major technical break.  Wave 3 down has begun.

Gold/silver stocks whacked again.  i expect the metals themselves to follow.

$DXY and UST's up big.
17515  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: October 03, 2011, 05:56:17 PM
looks to me like the pm's begin wave 3 down.
17516  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: October 03, 2011, 05:42:06 PM
the Dow, SPX, RUT, DJT all below Aug 9th lows.  if this holds, bad news.
17517  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: October 03, 2011, 10:50:59 AM
melbustus made a good point.  we all see the same problems yet we all are positioning ourselves differently based on our interpretation of how this plays out in the future.

using gold as a longterm indicator, miscreanity sees a parabolic blowoff spike finishing the gold bull, hugolp sees a steady rise, and i see a rollover happening.  i guess this comes down to how you perceive markets work.
17518  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: October 03, 2011, 10:38:57 AM
Sorry for the late answer, dont have too much time lately:

This is utter bullshit, salaries and prices are already going up while unemployment is high and it will accelerate. If anyone is interested I can go into more detail why.

i am an employer.  i have never had such wage control power since i've been in business since 1993.  i don't offer health care or a pension plan yet i have dozens of apps for any openings i advertise.  i'm also seeing older ppl enter the workforce that will accept lower pay than younger ppl b/c of the squeeze Ben's put on them.

Yes, some areas are suffering but not all. Its the problem at looking at unemployment as a big agregate, you miss what its really happening. F.e. a construction worker is not competition for a google engineer. So when it comes to negotiate the salary for the google engineer the fact that there are a bunch of construction workers unemployed doesnt make any difference.

The way it happened is that the people closer to the money supply saw their wages up sooner. Those people are the ones working on the financial industry, whose wages are recovering and going up in the middle of a depression. Then we are seeing the high skilled workers demanding higher wages, for example engineers of Google and Microsoft: Goolge war for talent rises wages 10% (2010), Microsoft raises wages to attrack talent (2011). But the central bank money is getting to specialized workers (not necesarely high skilled workers): Truck companies see a 30% wage increase

According to keynesians that should not be happening, but it is. The problem is that the idea that because unemployment is high wages can not go up is utter bullshit. Not all workers are interchangeable, not all unemployed workers are competition for working workers. As I said, that a bunch of construction workers are unemployed is not competition for a Google engineer. Its the problem of looking at aggregates and not at reality.

For a better explanation I recomend this short article of proffesor Steve Horwitz: http://www.pbs.org/nbr/blog/2010/08/idle_resources_-_they_dont_sto.html

The sad part is that some areas, mainly of low skilled labour, are not going to see their wages rised because anyone is competition for them, while the rest are going to see their wages rised and prices are going to follow. So the less skilled workers, usually the poorest, are the ones who are going to suffer inflation most. As always, inflation works to increase the wealth inequality.

Quote
this whole discussion presupposes that they'll have a choice in this whole deflationary event.  they don't.

Fair enough. Let me show you why they do:

Quote

3. "The Fed is out of bullets" Everytime I hear this I ask a question and never get an answer: Whats stopping the Fed from monetizing more government debt? (apart from the fear of producing hyperinflation).

and i keep answering it:

Politics, the sheer size of the bad debts, the rioting that you'll see if they try (Middle East) and self preservation.  if they destroy the USD what would be their function?  what about the billions of USD wealth these bankers have?

Yes, but the choice is not between deflation or hyperinflation. Some people argue that we are going to see a lost decade of near 0 inflation/deflation ala Japan lost decade, some others (like me) argue that we are going to have stagflation (high inflation and high unemployment) ala the 70's.

What the governments/banking system are trying to achieve is high inflation but controlled. Granted this is not guranteed, there could be a panic and they could loose control and go into hyperinflation. While its always a risk my opinion is that they will pull it off and we will get high inflation for many years, while the unemployment wont fully recover.

Bernanke has lost control over interest rates and raising them significantly (ala 20% Volcker beggining of 80's) would be a disaster with the governments and banks going broke. Thats why after the crash of 2008 Bernanke got permission from Congress to start paying interest on excess reserves. This had never happened in the history of the USA (or any other central bank that I know). What does Bernanke achieve paying interest on excess reserves? It controls the flow at which banks grant credit to the private sector. If Bernanke thinks too much credit is being emited and inflation is getting out of control he just have to raise the interest of the excess reserves and banks will decide to leave more funds at the Fed instead of loaning them out, because its risk-less. There are other tools Bernanke can use but thats the main tool that he will use to control the flow of credit into the economy to produce high inflation and avoid hyperinflation. The risk of hyperinflation is always present, but Im pretty convinced he will succeed and the western economies (the ECB will follow the Fed) will go through years of stagflation.

Conclussion: If deflation gains traction Bernanke can monetize government debt (like it has done until now and has avoid any kind of price deflation). If inflation starts getting out of control it has tools to control it (not avoid it).

i fully understand this line of reasoning and its a logical theory of what might happen.  but at the same time you're seeing increasing social unrest spreading worldwide.  these occupywallstreet events are starting in other cities and could eventually lead to riots.  this steady rise in stagflation could lead to Middle East type unrest in the US.  you can only keep a lid on a boiling pot for so long before a reversal needs to happen to relieve the pressure.

what about all the charts of commodities, stocks, junk bonds rolling over worldwide?  what are they saying about inflation?

edit:  i am what you would consider a highly skilled professional worker with more years of education under my belt than any of you here, i guarantee.  but yet my "wages" are controlled by the gov't for the most part and i have seen a deflation in my wages since i started my business many years ago.  what you say about Google type workers is probably true.  but i think this phenomenon is confined to a more narrow group than you think.  probably just tech and financial people.
17519  Economy / Economics / Re: OccupyWallStreet - Global Revolution on: October 03, 2011, 03:59:59 AM
i agree.
17520  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: October 03, 2011, 03:58:25 AM
http://www.calculatedriskblog.com/2011/10/update-on-gasoline-prices.html

no inflation here.

i guess all these articles i've been putting up aren't data according to misreality.

I wouldn't read too much into gas prices.  They've been damn strange since 2008.  In my opinion, gas prices have been about 50 cents too high for the last year or so.

I keep my eyes on TWIP.  We've been above the average range on crude stockpiles for a whole year now.  Gasoline stocks have been mostly quite high, not counting the exaggerated spring dip.  Also, notice how flat the 2009-2010 retail prices were.

It is hard to say if the current decline in gas prices are the usual annual fall drop, a correction long overdue from 2008, or another sign of the strengthening dollar.

i disagree.  gas prices especially over $4 have been significantly correlated with inflation expectations of the American public.  we saw this in summer 2007 when everyone was predicting $200 oil.  below $4 won't worry anyone in the US about discarding their hard earned USD's for gold/silver.  they ain't coming to the party.
Pages: « 1 ... 826 827 828 829 830 831 832 833 834 835 836 837 838 839 840 841 842 843 844 845 846 847 848 849 850 851 852 853 854 855 856 857 858 859 860 861 862 863 864 865 866 867 868 869 870 871 872 873 874 875 [876] 877 878 879 880 881 882 883 884 885 886 887 888 889 890 891 892 893 894 895 896 897 898 899 900 901 902 903 904 905 906 907 908 909 910 911 912 913 914 915 916 917 918 919 920 921 922 923 924 925 926 ... 970 »
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!