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17701  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: September 14, 2011, 04:36:54 PM

If there is a massive shrinking of the USD supply, the USD price of gold will go down to nearly nothing. But that's irrelevant. Everything will go down in USD price, so I will be able to buy just as much for my gold. However, there is another more interesting aspect to this scenario. If there are no dollars, there's no trade in dollars. People will trade is a different currency, or barter.

USD price for gold is pretty much irrelevant, if you use gold as a store of value. The USD isn't exactly stable either. Besides that, I'm talking about gold that you can actually touch. Not paper gold.

thats pretty much conventional wisdom and history is on your side!  i, however, like to think out of the box you may have noticed and i think Bitcoin is a game changer.  in fact, the only reason i sold my gold/silver recently is BECAUSE of Bitcoin.  i sure hope i'm not wrong thats for sure but i think its a paradigm change and will make gold obsolete.  i guess that's why we're all here isn't it?

edit:  thats a little dramatic.  its not the ONLY reason i sold gold.  its also b/c i truly do think we've topped out for all the reasons i've said in the thread.
17702  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: September 14, 2011, 02:18:17 PM
how much further does Goldcorp (GG), a bellwether gold stock, have to fall beneath its breakout line for it to be considered a "failed breakout"?
17703  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: September 14, 2011, 02:14:53 PM
And if the derivatives bubble is going to pop, you'll be too busy surviving to worry about your money.

i'm really glad you brought this up.  i've been meaning to talk about this.

miscreanity calls gold an asset as do i.  i believe that gold as an asset can inflate just like any other asset via USD inflation.  the derivatives mkt is no different.  as is the gold derivatives mkt.  gold pundits argue that if we get a gold derivatives implosion there will be a scramble for physical gold which will drive it to the moon.  but you have to ask yourselves:  what were those derivative positions funded with?  Answer:  USD's.  so if anything, a gold derivatives implosion should cause a scramble for USD's (or a shrinking of the total virtual USD's depending on how you like to think about this) causing a further skyrocketing of the USD.  if THAT happens, what becomes of the physical gold price?
17704  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: September 14, 2011, 01:58:27 PM
<skip>

you'd best read this entire thread.

my point with this thread is to make sure everyone here has the tools and in depth understanding of how the deflation works so that IF i'm right and gold starts heading down you won't be confused, disoriented and doing stupid things like catching a fallen knife.  i DID this in 2008 with gold stocks and it was brutal.  

but that was only the opening shot of this huge deflationary deleveraging wave we're about to commence.  you can't afford to make mistakes.

Thanks for the warning. I'm sorry to hear you've made a bad call in 2008. However, you were buying paper gold, I'm buying actual gold that I can hold in my hand. If gold goes down against the dollar, everything else is going down as well. And if the derivatives bubble is going to pop, you'll be too busy surviving to worry about your money.

If you're right, and gold starts going down, I'll sell at my break even point. But that's a long way down...

But in the end we all have to think for ourselves.

please read the thread.  i've already told everyone that my main position was gold/silver bullion that i started buying in 2005.  i made quadruple/quintuple profits on them before i sold most of it.  i also called the top of the stock mkt decline in 10/07 so i did extremely well on that so don't feel sorry for me.
17705  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: September 14, 2011, 01:45:21 PM
the stock mkt has just opened.  i'm looking at China and the EEM (emerging mkt ETF) getting slaughtered yet again.  THEY are getting hurt more than us.  i don't think gold support comes from them.
17706  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: September 14, 2011, 01:41:45 PM
Sorry if this has been said before, I didn't read the entire thread.

@cypherdoc:
I think you're wrong, gold still is a good buy. I'm still buying metals. Here's just a few reasons why:
- Just over a month ago, GS said the price of gold is going to $2500 by the end of this year.

since when have they been trustworthy?  they don't even make good calls anymore.
It's complicated, but I'll try to explain. GS has a major short position in silver. Since silver moves with gold, GS does NOT want a higher gold price. They are predicting a $2500 gold price to prevent more damage to their short position. (when they say $2500 by the end of the year, they're trying to set a psychological barrier) Most bulls are predicting $5000, $8000 or higher, based on the price in the late '70s/early '80s and inflation rates.

Quote
- Everywhere I look I see small companies popping up that buy your old jewelry. That means these people think gold is still an extremely good buy.

its amazing how diff ppl see the same things but interpret them differently.
Good to hear you see the same thing Wink

Quote
- The FED and the ECB are printing lots of money, meaning the euro and the dollar are going down in value.
The book "The Creature from Jekyll Island" explains a lot about the global money system. It's an excellent read, I suggest you pick up a copy...

i've read it twice.  and it IS a fantastic book.  i just don't agree about the one world currency thing though.  nor the gold part at this pt in history.

To quote you: its amazing how diff ppl see the same things but interpret them differently Wink
I tend to agree with Bill Stills when it comes to currency: it doesn't have to be gold. It can be anything, even BTC. However, since gold has been money for a long time, in different empires, I'm going for gold right now.
As long as big central banks are printing money and the public is NOT buying gold/silver en masse, I'm buying.

you'd best read this entire thread.

my point with this thread is to make sure everyone here has the tools and in depth understanding of how the deflation works so that IF i'm right and gold starts heading down you won't be confused, disoriented and doing stupid things like catching a fallen knife.  i DID this in 2008 with gold stocks and it was brutal.  

but that was only the opening shot of this huge deflationary deleveraging wave we're about to commence.  you can't afford to make mistakes.
17707  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: September 14, 2011, 01:21:19 PM
perhaps you ought to consider quoting me as i am the only one i know that had predicted this manipulated central bank induced USD rally weeks ahead of it happening

The only one?

yes, absolutely.  in the sense of:  "perhaps you ought to consider quoting me as i am the only one i know that had predicted this manipulated central bank induced USD rally weeks ahead of it happening".  there is a huge distinction btwn what that lame article you referenced was saying and what i predicted.  just saying "i think it might rise now b/c its time" is way diff than saying "why or when" it might rise.  the fact that its CB intervention means everything and is precisely why it has ramped so viciously.

Along the same lines, I could predict an earthquake in California and claim that I knew it was coming when it finally happens. Predicting the timing is exceedingly difficult, so I prefer preparation instead. That way, the trap can be sprung when the conditions are right; the reward reaped when there's little to no fight left in the move.

look.  i made this call on 8/9/11.  IF i happen to be right on this top but happen to be off by only a month and $100 i'd bet most ppl here on this thread would call me "A Legend" looking back at this years from now as opposed to someone just yelling "fire".  not that thats my motivation though.

and you know what?  i DO smell a trap.  or i should say fire.  i'm at the back door of the theatre looking back at everyone in their seats fixated on the screen eating popcorn with the curtains on fire.  remind me to make a post on pundits and trees when i get the chance.

The distinction here is that gold is not included in the equation. The USD appreciates against the Euro, and both are depreciating against gold.

funny you should mention that.  this last weekend when i was debating this with hugolp, i came to the realization that my viewpoints are clearly US centric and based on the USD being the worlds reserve currency.  if i were European, i would be more neutral on buying gold as their currencies are going to be hurt thru this next Phase 2 decline. you would then argue that means gold is still a great buy b/c the ROW demand will surely send gold skyrocketing.

however.  if you'll recall my inverse pyramid example of how money is created where foreign currencies are inflated via leverage off an inflated USD reserve in good times.  in a worldwide deleveraging cycle such as we're going thru now and with an imminent Greek default, foreigners and esp. emerging mkts are going to be hurt even more than us.  i could very well see that foreigners will be forced to sell their gold to eat or pay taxes.  THIS is what i think the CB's are gunning for and is the clearest example of USD hegemony.  a worldwide collapse in the gold markets.  obviously i'm betting they'll be successful via brutal liquidity drains and no more QE.  they need to save the system that has made them Masters of the Universe.

It isn't the fact that this dollar rally happened that's interesting, but the extent to which it has risen in such a short time.

this came as no surprise to me.  not when you predict that the USD rally will come from CB intervention as i have.  i have said several times the USD will "skyrocket".  this is how markets are manipulated.  in the middle of the night interventions when most investors are asleep at the wheel to create maximum psychological impact at the open via a huge GLD gap down; extreme ramps to force margined gold players out of their positions; small descending triangle formations to "tempt" bulls in gold into buying and leveraging up before "the trap" is snapped shut; extreme ramps in the USD to force USD shorts to cover overextended positions; waiting until sentiment reaches extremes before initiating an attack; all the while to create huge profits for insider bank traders that have been notified ahead of time.  this is where technical analysis combined with intuition and a thorough understanding of fundamentals, criminality, and sentiment come in handy.  i can "see" the setups.

in addition, on 9/6 at 9:24pm, in this thread, minutes after the selloff began i called attention to this as supportive of my theory.  Dan doesn't post on his blog until 10:44pm over an hour later.

Being first to scream "FIRE!" doesn't mean there is one.

now you're just being defiant.  give me a little credit here.  the fact that Dan Norcini and other gold bulls are just now coming to this realization of CB intervention that i had a month ago is significant.  there IS a fire.  i've listened to Dan every Friday for as long as KWN started after Eric King broke off from FSO.  he is an example of a linear thinker.  not to mention that he owns a bullion business if i recall correctly which severely biases his views.  this is a high stakes game of tactical chess.  i'm not just one or two moves ahead of him, i'm twelve moves ahead.

this is old info and has been already invalidated.  any technical trader knows this.

Can a technician explain why there are so many conflicting technical signals and so much confusion? Is support the result of a line on a chart or real-world supply & demand? Can that distinction be made from price alone?

you would be wise to not ignore this failed breakout.  i've already told you the confusion and diverging signals is b/c we're at a fundamental transition btwn bull and bear markets.  as we get in gear to the downside then the picture suddenly clarifies to everyones horror.

the whole fundamental basis of the gold trade has been to escape a falling USD.  now that its rising and looks to have broken out to the upside how can you justify further gold buying?

Then why would Europeans be buying gold as the dollar rose against the Euro? Is the entire world buying gold just because of a falling USD? Correlation is not causation. Beware of such linear thinking. Smiley

as i said above, i'm neutral about foreigners and gold.  i still think its dangerous for them b/c of the severe drain in liquidity they will experience as the CB's drain liquidity out of the system to kill gold.

There was no US dollar in ancient Rome. Gold protects against instability, especially debasement and fraud.

i used to think that gold would go up in deflation or inflation too.  until 2008. i learned.  it won't protect in a CB coordinated effort to kill it via a severe drain in liquidity.

Acknowledging those whom we've learned from keeps us from making outrageous claims. Also, I do not have the time to produce every chart and study on my own, so I find those who excel at what they do. It takes time to sift through the chaff to find the wheat. Ah, the magic of specialization and outsourcing!

I could be wrong as well, mostly in the short-term... but I doubt it. Smiley

of course you have to learn from these guys which is why i read and listen to all the same guys you do.  but heres the thing:  you have to learn NOT to stand on the shoulders of giants but learn to stand on your own 2 feet.  much of what they're saying is herd mentality and based on linear thinking.  YOU are smarter than them.  thats one thing i know for sure  Smiley

i disagree that this bull has to end in a further parabolic move.

... you all now realize that CB's have drawn a big red bullseye on all your foreheads.

That's reasonable to assume; it doesn't have to end in a parabolic rise. It's the probability of that happening which is very high.

The banks have been targeting gold for centuries because it clearly shows when they've buggered things up. What else is new?

Dan Norcini's article to me is a game changer.  the creeping realization that CB's are acting to kill gold should not result in permabulls thinking that just b/c they are aware of the manipulation, then it won't happen.  the better response is to sit up, understand the implications of this, and get out of the way now.  they will throw the economy under the bus in the name of self preservation.  suspicion will turn to realization will turn to doubt will turn to fear will turn to capitulation.  this is the psychology of the situation.

See my last statement about gold being targeted. Understand that central banks are net buyers of gold. The manipulations are to keep the power of gold out of the hands of too many whom the banks can't easily control, assuming a powers-that-be conspiracy hat. On the other hand, the banks are also struggling to survive and thus will attack what they see as a threat to their existence: gold.

ok, everyone listen up, i'll go out on a limb and make my next non linear prediction:  somewhere along the line here you'll get an announcement from some CB that they are going to sell some of their gold.  i wish i could give you an exact time but i'd guess somewhere in the range of 6 months.  this will further accelerate the panic out of gold and will help serve the interests of the CB's to save their precious monetary system.  i KNOW you haven't read this anywhere.  who knows?  maybe they'll trade gold in for Bitcoin Smiley

Because it's ofter easier to link an article and it can be better said by another: Richard Russell at King World News on the anti-gold sentiment.

i like Richard Russell.  just not right now.
17708  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: September 14, 2011, 11:31:20 AM
Sorry if this has been said before, I didn't read the entire thread.

@cypherdoc:
I think you're wrong, gold still is a good buy. I'm still buying metals. Here's just a few reasons why:
- Just over a month ago, GS said the price of gold is going to $2500 by the end of this year.

since when have they been trustworthy?  they don't even make good calls anymore.

- Everywhere I look I see small companies popping up that buy your old jewelry. That means these people think gold is still an extremely good buy.

its amazing how diff ppl see the same things but interpret them differently.

- The FED and the ECB are printing lots of money, meaning the euro and the dollar are going down in value.
The book "The Creature from Jekyll Island" explains a lot about the global money system. It's an excellent read, I suggest you pick up a copy...

i've read it twice.  and it IS a fantastic book.  i just don't agree about the one world currency thing though.  nor the gold part at this pt in history.
17709  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: High-resolution images of physical bitcoins on: September 14, 2011, 04:25:02 AM
after getting home tonite i've had a chance to inspect them even more closely than at work. i missed the point that the holograms on the back are 3D.  difficult to appreciate w/o the correct lighting.  looks very cool.  these are true works of art.  i'm just as proud of the fact that they are Casascius coins as they are physical Bitcoins.  
17710  Economy / Economics / Re: Gold: I smell a trap on: September 14, 2011, 03:00:41 AM
watch out.  looks to me like the resumption of the $DXY ramp and USD crosses starts tonite and thru tomorrow.
17711  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: High-resolution images of physical bitcoins on: September 13, 2011, 03:32:15 PM
i just received my order.  FANTASTIC!  Beautiful looking!  checked the balance of the first 4 and all had the one btc.  i don't need to check any others.

Thank you, Casascius.  Very cool.
17712  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Mt Gox Break In Part 2 on: September 13, 2011, 05:27:51 AM
I have to say one more thing. It is not right to bail out some (because they are a staff member on Bitcoin forum etc.) ans let others that get hacked for different reasons get nothing. This sounds to me like what the Federal Reserve did and are doing today, they bailed out friends/banks with trillions of dollars of interest free/low interest money and let "Main street" take the hit.

except that the Fed uses USD it prints up out of thin air at taxpayer expense via devaluation of the USD.  MagTux used his own BTC.  

The principle is the same. If he just bails out some people, the others have to pay for that through higher trading fees, trading fees that in theory could have been lower because bailing out is a cost that in the end has to be taking from somewhere.

you're assuming that the tx fees will increase.  how do you know that?

Study Economics 101.

Studying Economics 101 will allow me to predict that MagTux will raise his tx fees as a result of this incident?

When you understand Economics 101, come back and I promise you we can continue this discussion.

you're an arrogant ass.  educate me now.
17713  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Mt Gox Break In Part 2 on: September 13, 2011, 04:53:10 AM
I have to say one more thing. It is not right to bail out some (because they are a staff member on Bitcoin forum etc.) ans let others that get hacked for different reasons get nothing. This sounds to me like what the Federal Reserve did and are doing today, they bailed out friends/banks with trillions of dollars of interest free/low interest money and let "Main street" take the hit.

except that the Fed uses USD it prints up out of thin air at taxpayer expense via devaluation of the USD.  MagTux used his own BTC.  

The principle is the same. If he just bails out some people, the others have to pay for that through higher trading fees, trading fees that in theory could have been lower because bailing out is a cost that in the end has to be taking from somewhere.

you're assuming that the tx fees will increase.  how do you know that?

Study Economics 101.

Studying Economics 101 will allow me to predict that MagTux will raise his tx fees as a result of this incident?
17714  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Mt Gox Break In Part 2 on: September 13, 2011, 04:48:41 AM
I have to say one more thing. It is not right to bail out some (because they are a staff member on Bitcoin forum etc.) ans let others that get hacked for different reasons get nothing. This sounds to me like what the Federal Reserve did and are doing today, they bailed out friends/banks with trillions of dollars of interest free/low interest money and let "Main street" take the hit.

except that the Fed uses USD it prints up out of thin air at taxpayer expense via devaluation of the USD.  MagTux used his own BTC.  

The principle is the same. If he just bails out some people, the others have to pay for that through higher trading fees, trading fees that in theory could have been lower because bailing out is a cost that in the end has to be taking from somewhere.

you're assuming that the tx fees will increase.  how do you know that?

and the principle is totally different.
17715  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Mt Gox Break In Part 2 on: September 13, 2011, 04:47:55 AM
Tux has replaced the missing BTC.

oh wow.  How many BTC are we talking about here?  So can I now log in to my own account from some foreign VPN or Tor, withdraw my own bitcoins and claim I was hacked and get free BTC?  Or do I have to have one of those "staff" labels to qualify?  

he spent 17000 BTC bailing out Bitomat.  he could've just let them and their btc holders die on the vine and he would've been better off than buying a worthless exchange.

$60 USD worth. It was a trivial amount, I was more worried about a large scale attack, which doesn't seem to be underway. Its better to warn everyone instead of sit on the information. I'm glad I was the only one hit so far.

i would suggest you change the title of this thread to something much less ominous.  you're scaring people.
17716  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: New National Radio ad on how to get Bitcoins with CASH!! on: September 13, 2011, 04:45:41 AM
Hello, I would like to make one correction. We allow cash deposits now at Bank of America and Wells Fargo and are working on adding more banks. We have discontinued Chase for reasons unrelated to our cash deposit feature.

We all have to thank Roger for his outstanding support of Bitcoin and we at ExchB feel honored to be mentioned in this first-of-its kind national radio ad campaign.

Sincerely,

David Sterry, President
ExchB: The 1st US BItcoin Exchange
https://www.exchangebitcoins.com

have you disclosed to these banks that the cash deposits are to be used to purchase Bitcoin?
17717  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Mt Gox Break In Part 2 on: September 13, 2011, 04:30:14 AM
I have to say one more thing. It is not right to bail out some (because they are a staff member on Bitcoin forum etc.) ans let others that get hacked for different reasons get nothing. This sounds to me like what the Federal Reserve did and are doing today, they bailed out friends/banks with trillions of dollars of interest free/low interest money and let "Main street" take the hit.

except that the Fed uses USD it prints up out of thin air at taxpayer expense via devaluation of the USD.  MagTux used his own BTC. 
17718  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: New National Radio ad on how to get Bitcoins with CASH!! on: September 13, 2011, 04:24:47 AM

how long do you expect Wells and Chase to allow this?

I have no idea,  so I would like to have a backup radio ad ready.  Any good ideas for the next one?
Why would Wells and Chase ever stop people from depositing cash into an account? As far as I know all banks allow this. Someone can walk into my bank and deposit cash into my account - I'd be happy and so would the bank. Why not?

b/c of some stupid notion that this cash buying facilitates money laundering  Angry
17719  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: New National Radio ad on how to get Bitcoins with CASH!! on: September 13, 2011, 04:22:50 AM
Starting today an ad similar to this will be airing on more than 100 radio stations accross the USA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5E2gBuvweE 
(Please post this video on your facebook so all your friends and family will now know there is an easy way for them to buy Bitcoins!)

It will be read live,  on air by the radio host.

A list of the stations and times can be found here:  http://www.freetalklive.com/affiliates

I would appreciate your feedback on anything that you think should be changed or added.

I would also like suggestions for other Bitcoin related ads that should be done.
(I'm trying to think of one about how MTGOX is better and cheaper than paypal)

This ad is not free,  so if you want to help support it,  please donate to Memory Dealers directly at:
1HgMWGjRiMX7dhnpnRgo59mHHTBT6MheQW

"and remember, b/c there is no special interest group controlling Bitcoin, they cannot be devalued by excessive printing."
17720  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Mt Gox Break In Part 2 on: September 13, 2011, 04:15:07 AM
Tux has replaced the missing BTC.

oh wow.  How many BTC are we talking about here?  So can I now log in to my own account from some foreign VPN or Tor, withdraw my own bitcoins and claim I was hacked and get free BTC?  Or do I have to have one of those "staff" labels to qualify?  

he spent 17000 BTC bailing out Bitomat.  he could've just let them and their btc holders die on the vine and he would've been better off than buying a worthless exchange.
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