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1781  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin is not as advertised on: November 03, 2010, 04:40:09 PM
Also, no one actually answered as to why there was a block chain lockdown hardcoded, it doesn't solve anything, not even CPU overpowering attack on the network.

It does prevent someone with super-duper-computer-power to replace the entire chain with a new one... why not do it?

And I suppose they had a good reason to do so... in the particular case, there was an invalid chain with an invalid transaction that needed to be ignored, even if it was bigger than the correct chain.
1782  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Would you buy a house? on: October 31, 2010, 09:17:59 PM
In Brazil, student houses are called "republics".
1783  Economy / Marketplace / Re: To accept a sms in USA! on: October 28, 2010, 11:25:55 AM
haha, and you were complaining about the reception given to the bot-like man of the other topic!

Yoda automatic translator he used, see can't you?

@Remizor,

Sorry for the jokes, but it's a bit hard to understand what you say. This forum is quite international, maybe you can find someone that speaks your native language and get some help.
1784  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin Technical Analysis on: October 28, 2010, 08:27:26 AM
If the hoarding was so strong we wouldn't see these kinds of volumes.

Makes sense.
Can you guess where does all the demand comes from? It's not as if bitcoin was that useful already, concerning the transactions that can be made with.

PS: Comédia o "me dá um dinheiro aí"  Grin
1785  Economy / Speculation / Re: Bitcoin Technical Analysis on: October 28, 2010, 07:40:33 AM
Great analysis today btw.  The question on my mind is, where is all the buying coming from? 

I ask myself the same question.
It can't be only the libertarian geeks of this forum... or maybe the hoarding is so strong that it pushes the prices very high?
1786  Other / Off-topic / Re: Just wanted to Introduce Myself on: October 27, 2010, 04:02:13 PM
Welcome!

What's the best RSS feed I should subscribe to... to read all the best news about bitcoin?

I use this forum RSS: http://bitcointalk.org/index.php?type=rss;action=.xml

[]'s
Tiago.
1787  Economy / Marketplace / Re: paypal dropped mtgox on: October 27, 2010, 11:17:32 AM
Now look at these numbers. Do you still think it's too expensive to deal with a real exchange company?

Code:
BitcoinMarket
  Pecunix           :      0.0901
  PayPal            :      0.1500
  Liberty Reserve   :      0.1000

Mt Gox
  PayPal            :      0.16

Link2Voip
  Phone credit      :      0.15015

Nanaimo Gold buys   :      0.0901
Nanaimo Gold sells  :      0.1037

You've raised an interesting point here. It's as if paypal insecurity was dropping its value. In the end, using a secure system (or an insurance) might cost the same.
1788  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A lucrative attack on bitcoin? on: October 26, 2010, 08:00:15 PM
Regarding the attack discussion, I don't know how the client behaves, but it has no reason to keep in the pool transactions that it wouldn't add to any block anyway. Actually, ByteCoin has just pointed a reason for not doing so. Smiley
The unacceptable transactions should be forwarded and forgotten. It's up to the stingy sender to retry if the transaction is completely forgotten by the network.
Those doing "charity work" (adding transactions with no fees) would be vulnerable to this sort of denial of service attack, yes. And if they ever generate a block - before running out of memory/disk space -, it will be a damn huge block! Cheesy
But I see no "lucrative incentive" for such an attack, though. If you want to forbid free transactions, just publish a free version of the client that allows its users to specify minimum transactions fees.
1789  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A lucrative attack on bitcoin? on: October 26, 2010, 07:49:03 PM
The only reason why you can make free transactions so far is because the only client that exists doesn't allow the user to specify transaction fee rules.
If people generating could specify their own rules regarding fees, they wouldn't accept transactions with no fees (ok, there are always the exceptions, but they would be few...)

So, in the future, we may expect that all transactions will have to pay fees anyway.

Yes, but that future is a long way off.  Likely we will all be long dead.

Why?
That would happen as soon as there is a client that allows the user not to add transactions with no fees to the block it generates.
1790  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A lucrative attack on bitcoin? on: October 26, 2010, 11:43:26 AM
People trying to earn money hashing blocks have an incentive to spam the network with enough small transactions (1 in and 1 out) to fill up the 50kb "small transactions are free" limit. If any real users of Bitcoin want their transactions to go confirmed then they have to pay the 0.01 fee to get them included in the next block in preference to the spam transactions. The cumulative fees reward the block hashers for their spamming.

The only reason why you can make free transactions so far is because the only client that exists doesn't allow the user to specify transaction fee rules.
If people generating could specify their own rules regarding fees, they wouldn't accept transactions with no fees (ok, there are always the exceptions, but they would be few...)

So, in the future, we may expect that all transactions will have to pay fees anyway.
1791  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Suggestion for dwdollar & other BTC traders: How to fix the SCAM problem on: October 25, 2010, 01:06:15 PM
It is still not foolproof. Even trusted, or longstanding members rip a person off every now and then, it would just encourage them to make a few transactions first in order to build a false sense of trust, then make a larger order and claim fraud of some sort with Paypal or credit card.

I suppose - correct me if I'm wrong - that most scams were made with stolen CC or PP accounts... using your own identity while performing a scam like this looks risky.
And for the case of stolen accounts, the thief has to act fast, s/he can't waste time with small transactions.
1792  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Technical Support / Re: ERROR - PLEASE HELP ME! on: October 22, 2010, 07:05:33 AM
He speaks 'Portuguese (Brazilian)'. A translator would be helpful.

I speak it too. If you need help PM me.
1793  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Selling on ebay... on: October 21, 2010, 01:52:49 PM
You underestimate mr madhatter  Smiley

Yes, I did!  Tongue

Sorry for that!
1794  Economy / Economics / Re: Current Bitcoin economic model is unsustainable on: October 21, 2010, 01:22:43 PM
Talking about Nobel prizes: http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php/site/article/9776/
1795  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Selling on ebay... on: October 21, 2010, 12:47:58 PM
Madhatter,

Do you realize that, if your mailman ever finds about your business, you're screwed? I mean, you're clients will be... :-P

Cross your fingers for it to never happen! (or consider accepting named bank checks, but then your anonymity is gone...)
1796  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Torservers - Free Anonymous Uncensored Internet for Everyone on: October 21, 2010, 08:58:55 AM
Mr "torservers",

Since you're into providing means for anonymous communications, what do you think about providing Anomos trackers?
If you don't know about the Anomos project: http://anomos.info/

I know many people use bittorrent over Tor, and that's not good for the network. The anomos project is a good alternative to the problem, if at least it had trackers!
1797  Economy / Economics / Re: Current Bitcoin economic model is unsustainable on: October 18, 2010, 09:40:31 PM
... by Nobel price winning economists.

Yeah, like that one who believes in the broken window fallacy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QG4jhlPLVVs
Some people even believe in gods or wear a cowboy hat.  Some are even clueless about the Nobel prices.  This do not mean they are incompetent or wrong about everything else.

You may say that if a mathematician believes in gods that doesn't make him incompetent in Math, but if a so called "economist" believes in one of the oldest fallacies concerning economics, that's a different scenario, don't you think?

The article fails to mention that the correction in 1920, when millions (yes, millons) of soldiers returned home from a ruined Europe to a transition from war to peace time economy was completely different from the depression in the thirties in both cause and effect.

Err... lots of people coming back, with no jobs or money, wounded and all... shouldn't that make everything even worse?

And by the way, the cause of the 1920 crisis was exactly the monetary expansion done by the Fed during WW1.

Which planet do you live on?  Those statements must be based on some political theory.  It is certainly not sane economics.  Capital accumulation slows economic growth. 

What? Wow ... wait... so... buying more machines, training more people, that slows economic growth??

I don't know what you think capital means, but capital = means of production. Machinery, plants, tools, even immaterial things like knowledge, all these are capital. The more you have it, the more productive you are. Economic growth = increase in productivity.

Accumulating capital is the only way to sound economic growth. There's no "monetary magic" that, just by the printing of some paper, will create real capital from thin air and make a society richer. It seems you believe in this keynesian illusion.

I'll give you a real world example.  My country has about four times the amount of fortune in an international fund as The USA has debt per inhabitant.  It is from oil revenue which is saved in good times to keep the national GDP in check, and spent in worse times.  We expect it all to be gone in 50 years because of an aging population and empty oil wells, but for now we are rich.  When the crisis came in 2008, this country spent a lot of money from the fund to keep people at work and the economy going, and avoided recession.  This spending from the fund increased GDP, just as putting money away keeps GDP from growing too much for us to stay competitive with the rest of the world.

I highlighted an important word from your paragraph.
You're talking about Norway, right? The funds of the Norway state are real savings. The Norwegian society produces more than it consumes, the state confiscates it but, instead of doing like most states in the world and burning it immediately, it saves.
That's exactly what I've said before, when I stated that savings is in the beginning of the economic growth chain.
First, you have savings. The more savings available, the easier it is to invest them in the creation of new capital. More capital, more production. More production, more consuming becomes possible and voilà, you have, at the end of the process, a raise in consumption. It was only possible due to the savings in the beginning, otherwise, if everybody consumes exactly what they produce, where will the new capital come from?

Memorize it:
Savings -> Investments -> Capital accumulation -> Increase productivity -> Increase in consumption.

So, when the Norwegian state forces its citizens to save or consume, it is provoking artificial changes in temporal preferences, but, at least, it's not completely illusionary - the savings were real.
But when a state prints money in order to artificially push down the interest rates, all he's doing is manipulating prices. No real savings are created. In this fake prices scenario, people will consume and invest more (since the interest rate is artificially low), and will not be interested in savings... the real savings will eventually dry out, and many long term investments that were started will have to be abandoned because there's not enough resources to complete it.

That's what will happen to the word economy in the near future. And will be strong!

Ah, and regarding spending increasing the GDP... of course, GDP is a measure of spending! That's what it measures, it doesn't measure savings!

Try to explain this to the Japanese.  Japan has been troubled by deflation for two decades.  Try to explain that this is good for the economy.  I doubt you'll find anyone who agree with you.  Only ten countries in the world have lower GDP growth than Japan.

As already noted by someone, Japan suffers from intense government interference. The "too big to fail" idea has made the government drain all the resources of its people to sustain big, wealth destroyer companies.

As I have noted earlier -- electronic goods are an exception because they increase productivity by themselves.  Modern electronics lead to a productivity increase high enough to pay for the quickly decreasing value of the goods.  There are many other examples, which all have the same property.

Well, I was thinking about electronic consume goods, not electronic capital. You claim that under deflation people don't ever spend. So why do people buy HD TVs? Why not wait forever until they get cheaper/better?

And you noted an important thing also: increase in productivity. Just a frozen monetary base won't cause price deflation. Frozen monetary base + economic growth = price deflation. And if the economy is growing, that means new capital is available. As you noted by yourself, these more productive capital compensates the deflation.

1. Save capital.
2. ?
3. Profit!

You don't save capital (if it's "saved", it's not being used as capital at least), you save resources.
And resources saved can be invested to create new capital. With new capital, then, Profit! Wink

Capital will not increase productivity anywhere unless it is invested (which is the same as spent, just with different expectations).  I can collect tons of gold in my basement.  This will not lead to increased productivity anywhere. 

You're confusing capital with resources. Of course capital increases productivity. And first you invest, then you have capital. Tons of gold in your basement is savings, not capital.

I can give it to poor people, who spend it.  This leads to increased demand, and inflation, which lead to increased productivity because it is needed to fill the demand.

Here it's clear you're influenced by keynesianism...

So, people go and spend more. And then, magically, from nowhere, productivity increases! Machines fall from the sky, people wake up more skilled, electronic chips spontaneously mutate into faster circuits, just because you distributed money to the spending-poor!

Sorry for the irony, but, seriously now, how do you think productivity increases? Aren't you missing some important steps in this reasoning?

(And sorry all for the huge post...)
1798  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: [RFC] Best method for initial block download? on: October 18, 2010, 02:50:12 PM
haha, forgot that "detail"... der!
1799  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: [RFC] Best method for initial block download? on: October 18, 2010, 09:53:15 AM
Most software doesn't require a few hours, post-install, to be useable...

Can't you send coins while the chain is downloading?
Won't you see received transactions with 0 confirmations until the corresponding block is downloaded?

I thought the only problem was the generation, which is not that serious as a problem since the chance of generating something in a couple hours is really tiny.

But anyway, your ideas are good. The faster the better. Smiley

1800  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [OFF] What's the motivation behind Wirtland? on: October 17, 2010, 08:43:04 PM
Some people are happy with virtual country, but for those who want more there are bigger plans - read this:  http://wirtlandinstitute.blogspot.com/2010/09/how-to-sell-square-mile-of-wasteland.html

I had read about this proposition to Nauru and all. It's interesting, but... even if works out, you'll remain subject to the laws of the state you live in...
Besides role-playing, the main reason I'd see for trying to fund a new nation is to live under new laws...
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