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181  Economy / Securities / Re: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings on: January 31, 2014, 04:38:53 PM
OP delivered! Cheesy

Very nice photos. Congratulations to Danny and team.

Do we think we'll have claims this is all CGI?  Roll Eyes

Yes, its all been obviously photoshopped.  The lengths these scammers go to Wink

You can tell by the pixels and stuff...
182  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Apple allowing cash payment apps but not bitcoin ones - what gives? on: January 31, 2014, 02:17:41 PM
Can anyone tell me why payment apps like Yoyo are allowed in the app store, yet bitcoin payment systems aren't?

http://techcrunch.com/2013/09/10/yoyo-raises-1-2m-to-launch-new-kind-of-mobile-payment-and-loyalty-platform/

http://justyoyo.com/

This app is being trialled now at a major London university.

Maybe because Apple can't take a cut of the profits? Or maybe just because Apple are bastards.

I think it's a massive double standard. Banking apps for Barclays, Lloyds etc. are allowed. Now you've got pound sterling instant payment wallets. But still nothing for bitcoin.

Am I being silly but is it something to do with bitcoinj being in Java, and so can't be implemented on the iPhone under their rules (no external code etc…)? Would switching to a c-based client change anything?
183  Economy / Securities / Re: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings on: January 31, 2014, 02:14:46 PM
OP delivered! Cheesy

Very nice photos. Congratulations to Danny and team.

Do we think we'll have claims this is all CGI?  Roll Eyes

Excellent. Can we please have an interview with the first customer through the door? Maybe even a couple BTC reward for them?

We are expecting a large amount of media attention as the first customer passes through the doors of the branch. If anyone camps outside then I am sure we can help sort them a little reward  Wink

I'm looking forward to reading more. All the best!
184  Economy / Securities / Re: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings on: January 31, 2014, 12:06:12 PM
OP delivered! Cheesy

Very nice photos. Congratulations to Danny and team.

Do we think we'll have claims this is all CGI?  Roll Eyes

Excellent. Can we please have an interview with the first customer through the door? Maybe even a couple BTC reward for them?
185  Bitcoin / Press / Re: 2014-01-30 Arrest of charlie shrem shows dangerously repressive US police on: January 30, 2014, 11:19:13 PM
Actually for someone (Shrem) the problem it's a little worse than just "timing".
Quote
Unfortunately, the plea bargain system of the United States may cause Shrem to confess to the crime just to not risk 25 years of jail. A system where you get the choice of 15 days in jail and guilty confession, scoring career points for the prosecutor, or risk 25 years but take your chances of an acquittal, is a system that has absolutely nothing to do with justice nor with law enforcement. There is supposed to be a conceptual difference between being charged with a felony and playing “Take the money, or open the box?”.

Is this really how it works in the US?

What a broken system. With this almost everyone would confess. I mean even I would confess if I where charged for laundering US$, if I had to choose between 15 days and maybe 25 Years, even though I never touched a US$ in my whole live and could basically proof my innocence.

The US and New Zealand are unique in the developed world in allowing plea bargaining. It's disgusting and anti-judicial.
186  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Users Can Face Jail Time up to 15 years on: January 30, 2014, 10:37:39 PM
If I hold 1 BTC in my wallet, I can go to prison? I don't think so.
With that attitude, Russia will just stay behind everyone.

It seemingly is behind everyone with their homophobic laws and anti-gay stance. Pathetic behaviour.

What does anti-gay stance have to do with accepting or not btc?

It's a reflection of how far they are from the 21st century.
187  Economy / Trading Discussion / Apple allowing cash payment apps but not bitcoin ones - what gives? on: January 30, 2014, 07:50:26 PM
Can anyone tell me why payment apps like Yoyo are allowed in the app store, yet bitcoin payment systems aren't?

http://techcrunch.com/2013/09/10/yoyo-raises-1-2m-to-launch-new-kind-of-mobile-payment-and-loyalty-platform/

http://justyoyo.com/

This app is being trialled now at a major London university.
188  Economy / Securities / Re: [HAVELOCK] Mintspare (MS) Bitcoin Electronic Trade-in Service - Official Thread on: January 30, 2014, 11:11:39 AM
You know what MPOE, you are sometimes very amusing Cheesy
189  Bitcoin / Hardware / Re: [ANN]ASICMiner Publicly Looking for Potential Customers/Partners for New Chips on: January 29, 2014, 06:42:28 PM
Wattage is impresive indeed. But it's still 5W to dissipate from small 8x8 mm package. At least make it flip chip that most of heat can go thru top not bottom and PCB that is poor heat conductor.

EDIT: And please consider possibility of selling small batches of sample chips, like 10 chips.

QFN often has thermal pads on the underside. Connect these with enough vias to an underside copper pour without silkscreen and you've got an effective radiator. Stick a fan over that radiator and you'll suck even more heat away.

That's what I do with my QFNs, but I'm not sure about 5W dissipation. Anyone want to crunch the numbers?
190  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Establishing the Trustworthiness of Nodes without External Tokens (eg Passports) on: January 29, 2014, 04:41:10 PM
NanoAkron, those are things I've thought of, too. but there is no way that such schemes can be implemented in bitcoin itself. The protocol can't change arbitrarily. what you're suggesting is at odds with TCP/IP. TCP/IP deals with unreliable communication over a scale free network (all nodes are equal). bitcoin depends crucially on long block times. Send some packets over random locations over the globe and you will see there will be a lot of statistical variance. Which is the reason why blocks exist (one can imagine geographically distributed blocks). TCP/IP only knows of nodes with IP addresses. You don't know where the node is (exact for datamining through approximation). For example people suggested changing the chain selection rule (GHOST). but all of the elements are carefully balanced, which makes the invention so ingenious.



Hmm…I see.

191  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Establishing the Trustworthiness of Nodes without External Tokens (eg Passports) on: January 29, 2014, 02:24:09 PM
Though don't governments generally have access to lots of foreign passport scans from border crossings, airport, etc.?

That's true, they do. It's like a bigger variant of the hotel attack. So maybe the "reveal country and play geopolitics" wouldn't work well.

I thought of a couple of countermeasures but they decrease convenience a lot. One would be to find a way to do the time-spacing trick, perhaps by committing to a hash of some (derived?) data in the block chain, and then incorporating that and a block hash from N days later into the proof. However in the absence of AA it doesn't work, and most passports don't do AA, so that seems like a dead end.

The second is to have some random/semi/low trusted third party do a match between face and passport photo data (it can be extracted independently from the rest), in such a way that it's clear the owner of the passport is consenting to creating the fresh identity. That way attacks based on just grabbing someones data wouldn't work. Because matching two photos together perhaps with a MySpace style "salute" (write a code on a piece of paper and hold it up to the camera), is very easy, it could be a Mechanical Turk style microwork scheme. There's no need for the face-matching-person to know anything about who they are seeing. Accuracy could be measured and enforced by having other low-trusted third parties do random audits.

But that's very complicated and would take a lot of effort to set up. If Tor strongly suspected it was really being infiltrated by a lot of intelligence agency controlled nodes, it might become worth it. But otherwise I doubt it's worth it.

Note that ZKPOPs have use cases outside "how do we beat the government at sybil attacks". For instance, one reason porn sites hestitate to use Bitcoin is that they use credit cards as a form of age verification. Anonymous age verification, anti-spam systems, helping manage identities in end-to-end encrypted email ... there's lots of places where selectively revealed yet hard-to-forge identities would be useful.

Time spacing could be achieved at the node-node handover of a block.

N1 isn't known to N2.

N1 --> N2: Here's a block. It has timestamp t0.
N2 waits a random amount of time <1sec.  
N1 <-- N2: Ok, now solve this small puzzle and send me a new timestamp.
N1 --> N2: Here's the solution and timestamp t0+N2_delay+x.

Now, t0+N2_delay+x must be greater than t0 - so the person in control of the node isn't just winding their clock backwards and forwards between problems. The latencies for the connection should also be the same in both directions, to within a narrow margin. Comparing the timestamps tells you how long that node should take to solve a particular puzzle, which can then be used as a reference when asking the same puzzle later. This tells you the physical make-up of the machine hasn't been swapped out and another one is just spoofing the ID.

This map of latencies and 'puzzle-solving-times' acts like a map/proof for other nodes in the network when they now want to talk to N1.

Again, I'm sure there are parts I'm missing, but this would be internal to the protocol itself and not require external tokens, and be fairly easy to bootstrap outwards from a single trusted server.
192  Other / Off-topic / Re: Favorite beer to drink? on: January 29, 2014, 10:55:47 AM
Gouden Carolus Classic.

Absolutely awesome. Rich, velvety. Lovely.
193  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Establishing the Trustworthiness of Nodes without External Tokens (eg Passports) on: January 29, 2014, 10:50:01 AM
So take the ID requirement back a step and put the burden of proof on the nodes themselves. How does a node prove to other nodes that it is real and not spoofed?

How do you know your OS is not rooted? perfect backdoors are invisible. its hard to write a rootkit, but as they propagate its impossible to stop them. for example Zeus was a well-known Win rootkit. black hats can earn a lot of money (I assume), so there is the incentive. for the attacker it takes only one exploit, but the defenders have to cover all exploits. its not possible to write programs which defend all possible attacks. there is the idea you could use BTC in connection to compute cycles, but it seems unlikely that is workable in the near term. You can't write programs that prove that other programs are not malicious, which is connected to Turing's halting problem [1].

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halting_problem

But this is much like a criticism that Bitcoin doesn't really 'solve' the Byzantine Generals problem. Sure, it doesn't fully satisfy the definition of a 'solution' in a pure mathematical sense, but for all intents and purposes it's 'good enough' to be useful.

You don't have to 'prove' a node is real in a hard sense, just that it's behaving exactly like a real node would (relaying transactions to and from the greater network, not compromised by allowing external observer programs to 'look inside' during runtime) when it's asked to.
194  Economy / Securities / Re: [IPVO] [Multiple Exchanges] Neo & Bee - LMB Holdings on: January 29, 2014, 10:19:30 AM
Here is the Neo&Bee Miami presentation https://soundcloud.com/mindtomatter/e79-a-bitcoin-world

starts at min 46
Great presentation. Thank you for sharing.

Good presentation. Little concerned that one of the key aspects of their prospectus (Euro <--> BTC accounts) isn't being delivered yet, but something that is not in their prospectus (EasyCoin) is…

And please change 'time locked' for something like 'bond' or 'savings' Smiley
195  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Establishing the Trustworthiness of Nodes without External Tokens (eg Passports) on: January 29, 2014, 10:06:55 AM
People need to realize that proof of work is a means to an end. A better system is possible if nodes are connected to identities.

It seems to me very unlikely than there will be an establishment of a global identity system which can't be corrupted. You might be able to prove you own a passport, but you can't prove you haven't stolen the passport. There is no key testing. Human markers (fingerprints, eye scan, genetic information) are unique and testable. Other information usually used to create a map person => identity are physical addresses and bank accounts

So take the ID requirement back a step and put the burden of proof on the nodes themselves. How does a node prove to other nodes that it is real and not spoofed?
196  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Establishing the Trustworthiness of Nodes without External Tokens (eg Passports) on: January 29, 2014, 09:56:27 AM
Hrm. The problem is that even if the network decided to ask for passport blind-signing, that solution doesn't work for this use case because the attacker can issue passports.
I believe the idea is that the ZKPOP can reveal the country that issued the passport, so when setting up your Tor circuit, you'd select relays from distinct countries.  Then a sybil attack against Tor would require international coordination of governments.

Though don't governments generally have access to lots of foreign passport scans from border crossings, airport, etc.?

So let's go back to the topic at hand: How do we establish the trustworthiness of nodes without external tokens?

What structural/functional properties of bitcoin can we use to establish a node is a real node in a trustless and distributed fashion?
197  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Establishing the Trustworthiness of Nodes without External Tokens (eg Passports) on: January 29, 2014, 02:19:09 AM
So why did Mike Hearn go to lenghs to describe passport based verification of nodes? What problem was he proposing this would solve?
198  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Establishing the Trustworthiness of Nodes without External Tokens (eg Passports) on: January 29, 2014, 12:11:15 AM
Its not how bitcoin works, but its an interesting concept. Instead of having the whole world verify blocks, one could somehow use nodes in some proximity. One could call it local web of trust.

One worry is the bar thinks its getting paid because it's seeing false confirmations, when in reality it's giving away drinks for free because the transactions are never getting relayed to the rest of the network.

Nope. A "confirmation" is a valid block with the transaction included, and a valid block includes a proof of work. The proof of work is far too valuable to waste trying to double spend in a bar.

Except for 2 things: in rapid low-value retail environments where we're told 0 conf should be ok, and I know bars that turn over £2,000+/night. Plenty of easy pickings if you spoof a few confirmations by pretending to be the rest of the network.
199  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: ChromaWallet (colored coins): issue and trade private currencies/stocks/bonds/.. on: January 28, 2014, 11:31:08 PM
For example, you can create 1 billion shares, and make each share divisible into 1 million parts.
Genius, pure genius.  And how many parts are the million parts divisible by?

Well, basically one creates 10^15 atoms, 10^6 atoms represent 1 share. (That's simply a display convention, for convenience.)

OBC represents 1 atom with 1 satoshi. But ITOG does not.

Do you have a diploma in mathematics?

M. Sc. in applied math.

Ooh…burn!
200  Bitcoin / Development & Technical Discussion / Re: Establishing the Trustworthiness of Nodes without External Tokens (eg Passports) on: January 28, 2014, 11:29:16 PM
Its not how bitcoin works, but its an interesting concept. Instead of having the whole world verify blocks, one could somehow use nodes in some proximity. One could call it local web of trust.

One worry is the bar thinks its getting paid because it's seeing false confirmations, when in reality it's giving away drinks for free because the transactions are never getting relayed to the rest of the network.
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