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181  Local / India / Re: Cash Deposit Network or Prepaid Card Service for Bitcoin in India on: December 10, 2012, 02:07:05 AM
as far as i am concerned, dishwara has a very realistic view of how indian politicians, regulators and other policy makers function.
The issues that he presents are REAL WORLD problems. We can't be imagining a La-la land where everything is perfect and no one will try and prevent bitcoin from taking root.
Anything that circumvents the system and regulations will raise eyebrows.

we have 2 options:
avoid regulators completely by fitting bitcoin into currently defined categories, or
sell it (the idea, not the bitcoins ) to the regulators in a way that provides advantages to them.

option 1 is better.

on another note : I have personally dealt with dishwara, and i can vouch that he is not a scammer.
Besides, nowehere in his posts do i see him actively discouraging anyone. All he is doing is providing information. At least that's the way i look at it.

182  Local / India / Re: Cash Deposit Network or Prepaid Card Service for Bitcoin in India on: December 10, 2012, 12:15:53 AM
guys, if you wanna abuse each other, please do it via PM. Do not wash your dirty laundry in public.
and now, to get back on track:

Dishwara is right about the way the government officials function. I have personally had to pay "extra" to get some official, legal work done.
This is besides the point though.

If the government cannot control , or track bitcoin distribution, they will outlaw the "exchanges", and one will not be able to buy or sell bitcoins.
If you can't get em, you can't use em.
No one is going to attack bitcoin directly, it is very difficult to do.

another thing that regulators CAN do is make one single statement about bitcoin use in money laundering, etc.
this can have 2 effects -

1. all the corrupt indian politicians figure out that this is an exccellent way of washing their dirty money, and they will try to adopt it.
2. common man gets scared of bitcoin and never touches it.

I personally feel that we should forget about cricket and movie stars, and instead convince a few corrupt politicians ( or regulators ).
Tell them how it can be used, what it can be used for, and they will be convinced.
183  Local / India / Re: Setting up BTC <--> INR exchange in India on: December 08, 2012, 03:23:13 AM
I know who is working on it, but not aware of any more details.

The project is still at a nascent stage.

ermm.. sooo Who is working on it?
Or is this information confidential? in which case nevermind.
184  Local / India / Re: Cash Deposit Network or Prepaid Card Service for Bitcoin in India on: December 08, 2012, 03:18:11 AM
I had written an article, after studying the RBI guidelines for pre-paid and FERA.

http://bensonsamuel.com/bitcoin-3/reserve-bank-of-india-regulations-on-bitcoin-in-india/

At this point, I was advised by Jon Matonis, not to ask the regulators for permission.

I agree with this point completely.

Bitcoin is unregulated. Buying and selling Bitcoin with cash is your prerogative.

What people do with the Bitcoin is their concern and we are not here to police it.

Exactly! do not give the government a chance to ask questions.
set up shop that sells "digital" goods, specifically, bitcoin.
have a company set up, with a legitimate bank account.
pay taxes on the income. No eyebrows raised, no questions asked, all paper work in order.

I do not see a problem here at all..
Now, who wants to be the first?
185  Local / India / Re: Cash Deposit Network or Prepaid Card Service for Bitcoin in India on: December 07, 2012, 07:04:30 AM
the question is, does bitcoin fit the description of a "product" as defined by the government, considering its current features and utility.
if it does, i wouldn't mind setting up shop.
186  Local / India / Re: Cash Deposit Network or Prepaid Card Service for Bitcoin in India on: December 07, 2012, 04:15:02 AM
very interesting.
However, i cannot bring myself to read a document full of text.
Neither can i understand any text describing government regulations and definitions, etc.
What licenses would be required to set up a "shop" or a "company" to sell bitcoin as a "digital product" for "personal use", and be able to accept cash deposits into a bank account registered with that "shop"/"company".

Is this a legal way of selling bitcoin? Considering the indian government does not have a definition of what bitcoin is, perhaps we can define it ourselves as a "product", falling under the "digital" category, and find a way to fit it into the definition set by the government ( if there is one ).

187  Local / India / Re: Interested in buying selling BTC for GBP/INR London <-> India on: December 03, 2012, 07:13:21 AM
@ Benson =>

I have also checked out HDFC bank, but it seems my account with them does not have the facility to transfer funds internationally.
I am not really interested in sending money to cellphones / other mobiles. I do not know how many others are, but i feel the purpose for these kinds of transactions will be very specific ( like refilling your prepaid phone, or prepaid DTH, etc etc ). It may reach a stage where cellphones can be used like credit / debit cards, but how it that going to facilitate bitcoin exchange among people? I am a bit confused

My concern here is how do Indians buy and sell bitcoins? local meet ups are not very reliable, and mrbitcoins.com is down, plus they charge very high fees, and they do not BUY BTC from you.

You CAN send funds to mtgox using the method i posted above, and trade bitcoins in that way.
You could also RECEIVE money to your bank account from mtgox.
So, if the purpose is to speculate and trade bitcoins, then this is the best way.

If your purpose is to obtain BTC easily, reliably and quickly, this method does not work well. You have to provide verification documents, wait a couple of days for the transactions to take place, and the cumulative transaction fees are quite high, so you cannot really trade on small changes in value, like people do in stocks.

Another thing that i have tried is mining litecoins and then selling them on btc-e ( the returns on mining LTC are higher ). However, i only managed to mine about 130 LTC in a period of 2- 3 months, as my hardware is not very good. Also, my sale timing was not good. I sold all my LTC for 0.00618 btc each and 2 days later it moved up to 0.0084 or something..

188  Local / India / Re: Interested in buying selling BTC for GBP/INR London <-> India on: December 02, 2012, 08:56:44 AM
I'm having discussions with a few guys here about sending bitcoins to India.

The main issue at the moment is how to receive money from India to UK.

Firstly a resident Indian cannot send more than $5000 in a year to a person outside India.

Secondly - Western Union/Moneygram may be an option.

Thirdly - ICICI and Lloyds TSB offer a service that links their two accounts together.

Fourthly - there are places in London that allow one to send Pounds to Rupees. It may be possible to do the reverse also.

Does anyone else have any suggestions?

I have an update. I tried to see if it is possible to send funds through icici bank net banking facility.

there is an option on the left navigation menu "Fund transfer abroad"

at first you are presented with the following screen:


then u have some terms and conditions as follows:

Code:

ICICI bank internationa funds transfer form - terms and conditions

Terms & Conditions

    I agree that the exchange rate will be applicable at the time of deal booking and may vary from the rate prevailing when the request is submitted.
    I understand that the rate communicated to us (if any) is an indicative rate and the actual rate may be different from the same.
    I understand that submission of request does not necessarily imply processing of the transaction. ICICI Bank has full rights to reject the transaction based on regulatory and internal guidelines.
    The limit submitted is correct and has not been exhausted in current Financial Year including this request for any of the accounts held by me individually or collectively with any bank.
    I authorize you to debit my Savings Bank Account together with your charges and effect the foreign exchange remittance directly.
    I understand that on submitting the request if service request number is not displayed then I should check if the email confirmation is received for successful submission of the request and should check if the debit is posted in the account. I understand any re-initiation without confirming will result into duplicate debit into my account.
    I understand for the same day processing the request should be raised before 1400 hrs IST.
    I understand above cut off is applicable on working days. (Presently Monday to Friday excluding Bank Holidays in India and the country of remittance).
    I understand that the request once placed will not be cancelled.
    I understand this facility is only for Telegraphic Transfer/Wire transfer.
    I confirm that I am not a foreign national.
    I understand that the ICICI bank is not liable in case funds are not credited or credited with the delay for any reason at beneficiary bank/intermediary bank's end
    In case of any query or suggestion kindly contact our Customer Service Desk.



Financial limits and declarations:
      I/We hereby declare that-
 

    The total amount of foreign exchange purchased from or remitted through, all sources in India during this financial year including this application is within USD 25000 (USD Twenty Five Thousand Only) the limit prescribed by Reserve Bank of India for the said purpose under FEMA, 1999.
    Foreign exchange purchased from you is for the purpose mentioned in this application.
    The transaction, the details of which are specifically mentioned in the application, does not cross the limit for the financial year or any other limit prescribed by RBI under FEMA, 1999 for the said purpose.

  Declaration on Prohibited Transactions:
      I/We hereby declare that the transaction mentioned above does not involve, and is not designed for any purpose for which the drawal of foreign exchange is prohibited under Rule 3 of the Foreign Exchange Management (Current Account Transactions) Rules, 2000 read with Schedule I thereof viz,
 

    I confirm that I am not a foreign national.
    Travel to Nepal and/or Bhutan
    A transaction with a person resident in Nepal or Bhutan.
    Remittance out of lottery winnings.
    Remittance of income from racing/riding etc. or any other hobby
    Remittance for purchase of lottery tickets, banned/proscribed magazines, football pools, sweepstakes, schemes involving money circulation, securing prize money/ awards etc.
    Payment of commission on exports made towards equity investment in Joint Ventures/Wholly Owned Subsidiaries abroad of Indian companies.
    Remittance of dividend by any company to which the requirement of dividend balancing is applicable.
    Payment of commission on exports under Rupee State Credit Route except commission up to 10% of invoice value of exports of tea and tobacco.
    Payment related to "Callback services" of telephones.
    Remittance of interest income on funds held in Non-Resident Special Rupee Account Scheme.

 
      I/We, being a person resident in India, hereby declare that for transaction done under the Liberalized Remittance Scheme for resident individual, issued and amended by Reserve Bank from time to time, is not in the nature of remittance for margins or margin calls to overseas exchanges/ overseas counter party under the scheme
 

 
      Updated list of prohibited transactions under foreign exchange management act can be accessed on ICICI Bank website (www.icicibank.com)
 

 
      Other relevant declarations:
 

    I/We hereby declare that the purpose and transaction details as mentioned above are true to the best of my knowledge and does not involve, and is not designed for the purpose of any contravention or evasion of the provisions of the FEMA, 1999 or any rule, regulation, notification, direction or order made there under. I/We agree that I/We shall be responsible and liable for any incorrect detail provided by me/us.
    I/We also hereby agree and undertake to give such information/documents as will reasonably satisfy you about this transaction in terms of the above declaration.
    I/We agree that in the event the transaction could not be executed/ debited to my/our account after submitting the request for processing to the bank on account of insufficient/ unclear balance at the time of execution of the transaction in my/our account, any exchange losses incurred in this connection due to reversal of forex deal can be charged to my/our ICICI Bank account.
    I/We agree that in the event the transaction is cancelled or revoked by me/us after submitting the request for processing to the bank, any exchange losses incurred in this connection can be charged to my/our ICICI Bank account. I /We further agree that once the funds remitted by me/us have been transmitted by ICICI Bank to the correspondent and/or beneficiary banks, ICICI Bank shall not be responsible for any delays in the disbursement of such funds including the withholding of such funds by the correspondent and/or beneficiary banks.
    I/We agree that in the event the transaction being rejected by the beneficiary bank because of incorrect information submitted by me, any charges levied by the beneficiary bank or exchange losses incurred in this connection can be charged to my ICICI Bank account.
    I/We also understand that if I/We refuse to comply with any such requirement or make only unsatisfactory compliance therewith, ICICI Bank shall refuse in writing to undertake the transaction and shall, if it has reason to believe that any contravention/evasion is contemplated by me/us, report that matter to the RBI.

These terms do not seem to be mentioning anything remotely similar to ecurrency or bitcoins.

then the remittance form:



under purpose of remittance there are a few options none of which applies to bitcoins. the closest one is something like "purchase of goods or services for personal use".
i do not know whether bitcoins is goods or service.

Excuse the formatting of the terms and conditions.... a bit of a copy paste job as i do not have much time.

189  Local / Marketplace (India) / Re: Bitcoin buy/sell in INR on: November 29, 2012, 09:58:19 AM
I found a local vendor in bombay who will do a transfer upon cash exchange.

Mrbitcoins is down till 4th nov.

ecurrencyzone seems to have a multitude of options available for bitcoin to fiat and vice versa for india.
I have not tried them yet, cos i either have no bitcoins or no cash At Any given point. I DO PLAN ON trying it out eventually, so whenever i do, I will let you guys know.

@ tenakha
If you have relatives in india ( anywhere ), you can open a bank account here, and have internet banking enabled.
Let your clients deposit cash into your account. This can be verified immediately, via SMS, although i am not sure how it will work with an inernational number.

Another option is to set up a local (in india) NRI account, to accept cash deposits, provided you actually ARE a "Non Resident Indian", and can produce documentation to prove the same.
This will have some TAX implications, if your sales per annum go over a certain limit.
Western union is readily available in bombay. I believe they require proof of ID? also, not too sure, but it is possible that their transaction fees would be higher, so you would need to consider that in your exchange rates.

190  Local / Marketplace (India) / Re: Bitcoin buy/sell in INR on: October 26, 2012, 02:00:35 AM
does localbitcoins even work?
i had placed an order which was not responded to in 4 days....
tried only once so far.
has anyone had any success ( in india )?
191  Economy / Currency exchange / Re: WTS Bitcoin to India (INR) and Pakistan (PKR) on: October 16, 2012, 05:08:13 AM
I am from bombay and interested in buying BTC with cash deposit in ICICI bank.
I have sent you a pm already.
thanks!
192  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Mr Bitcoins - anyone from India had any luck yet? on: October 15, 2012, 03:06:27 AM
I have already used the service 3 times, and its legit. takes between 1 - 12 hours depending on the time of day the deposit is made.

Their charges are very high though. almost 3- 4 USD / bitcoin higher than MTgox.
193  Local / India / Re: Hindi version of MultiBit is 37% translated. on: September 19, 2012, 08:34:12 AM
this is wicked!!
can i please send this to my friends?

also, how can i help? i can speak /read /write hindi.
Can't type yet, but i am sure it is very easy.
 Grin
194  Economy / Service Discussion / Re: butterfly labs is definitely mining with those ASICs at the moment on: September 18, 2012, 05:58:10 AM
i would do it too.
this is where ethics will come in to play.
IF BFL truly wants BTC to succeed, they will never run enough units to take over 51% of the hashing power at any one point.
Also, they WOULD take the profits from the mining, no doubt. But considering the magnitude of profits, i believe they would donate a sizable chunk to various bitcoin related projects, ( that is IF they want bitcoin to succeed on a larger scale )

they would not run more than a certain limited number of units at a time.
they would not run them any longer than required to ensure that they are working fine and will not malfunction after shipping.

the question here is, how ethical is BFL?


195  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Bitcoin Businesses and Developers, Let's Get Started! on: September 14, 2012, 05:23:20 AM
I run a small animation studio and would like to accept Bitcoins for projects.

I have 6 years of work experience in 3D modeling , in creative as well as technical aspects.
I work in Autodesk MAYA, and am willing to do some freelance work for BTC.

I also know quite a bit of the Maya Python API, so i could even write some simple scripts / plugins.

196  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Introduce yourself :) on: September 14, 2012, 05:02:41 AM
Hi,
I am not anything in particular.

I am pretty proficient with Maya 3D Modeling ( 6 years work exp ) and Maya python API.
Willing to offer my services for BTC of course.

i have other skills as well, ranging from gardening to coding ( mostly python ) and corporate strategy planning, but those are more like hobbies, and real life jobs.

197  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Newbie restrictions on: September 14, 2012, 04:57:57 AM
i have 10 hours logged, now trying to get my post count to 5.
Unfortunately, the only posts i want to reply to are outside Newbies.. Sad


198  Other / Beginners & Help / Re: Mr Bitcoins - anyone from India had any luck yet? on: September 03, 2012, 03:40:19 AM
hey!
Thanks so much....
I don't know what went wrong earlier... now it is showing up properly....
weird...
199  Other / Beginners & Help / Mr Bitcoins - anyone from India had any luck yet? on: September 01, 2012, 05:59:27 AM
hi everyone!
i am new here on the forums, although i have been looking into bitcoins for quite a while.

since i cannot post on the original topic, (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=84031.0), i am making a new one.

I tried procuring bitcoins using MrBitoins website. I am located in India, and this seems to be the only site accepting INR deposits for bitcoins.
However, everytime i fill in my details, and try to generate a deposit slip, i get an msgbox saying "please try again later"..

I am a little concerned now, since i have entered my email address, and my bitcoin in address...

I have a few questions:
1. Has the service for india not started yet? it seems the site has been up since may, and its september now.

2. If (1) is true, when is the service for india going to be active?

3. Is this site really legit?  From the topic link posted above, it does sound legit, and is even owned by a well known company, so i am not implying that it is a scam.

4. has anyone from india had any luck procuring bitcoins thourgh Mr Bitcoins? if so, how did you do it?

5. Did my information get saved on the site? Can it somehow be used against me ? this isnt so much of a concern, since the email address i had provided is expendable,and has no personal information about me as such, but i would still like to be sure that it is not going to be misused.


Thanks!
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