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181  Economy / Securities / Re: [BTC-TC] Community Exchange w/ Options, DRIP, 2FA, API, CSV, etc. on: June 05, 2013, 06:02:03 PM
Noob question, I'm a bit confused: why is BTC-TRADING-PT considered a FUND, as opposite to a STOCK, like ASICMINER-PT?
I.e. which are the differences?
Unless I'm mistaken they are both passthroughs, they both grant dividends, they can both be redeemed...

ASIC-MINER-PT is a fund.

The important distinction between a "fund" and a "stock" is that shares of a stock represent ownership of the company, while shares a fund represent ownership of certain assets held by the company and not the company itself. That's why this is in the BTC-TRADING-PT fund's contract:

ASIC-MINER-PT is a ADR in my mind, but this is bitcoinland, where reason and reality never shall meet Wink

It can hardly be an ADR when it isn't listed on a US exchange and isn't denominated OR traded in dollars.

Maybe the A is out of place here, but it is certainly a Depository Receipt
182  Economy / Securities / Re: [BTC-TC] Community Exchange w/ Options, DRIP, 2FA, API, CSV, etc. on: June 05, 2013, 05:53:00 PM
Noob question, I'm a bit confused: why is BTC-TRADING-PT considered a FUND, as opposite to a STOCK, like ASICMINER-PT?
I.e. which are the differences?
Unless I'm mistaken they are both passthroughs, they both grant dividends, they can both be redeemed...

ASIC-MINER-PT is a fund.

The important distinction between a "fund" and a "stock" is that shares of a stock represent ownership of the company, while shares a fund represent ownership of certain assets held by the company and not the company itself. That's why this is in the BTC-TRADING-PT fund's contract:

ASIC-MINER-PT is a ADR in my mind, but this is bitcoinland, where reason and reality never shall meet Wink
183  Other / Archival / Re: btt on: June 05, 2013, 03:55:08 PM
Looks like a very nice dividend of .038146/share from ASICMINER, gives us 3.8146 BTC total for this week from our 100 shares, larger than the 3.54 BTC mined by the GPUs during all of May.  Plus, with the value of each share surely rising after a large dividend, looks like this will be a great use of funds until the Avalons arrive!

Indeed, adds 0.544955286 per day to the payout starting Thursday, over 5x yesterdays payout.  I also like the fact we are nearing the 5000 IPO shares being sold to limit the dillution
184  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] TAT.VIRTUALMINE - IPO at 12PM EST - Early Bidding is Open on: June 05, 2013, 11:29:59 AM
what controls how many will get put onto the market?, is there a limited amount of them, also when difficulty increases in 2 weeks or a month, wouldnt the price of these drop? because dividends are dropping,

so buying them would be betting on the difficulty not going up so fast? or betting on that i would be able to atleast sell them for same price i bought them for,

right?
seems a bit risky for my taste i guess

Since you are a speculator, please stop saying investing.  Nobody invests with a 2-4 week horizon, they speculate.  If you think there will be less mining, this will increase in value, if the mining activity increases, these will decrease in value, it is simple math.
185  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It on: June 04, 2013, 11:22:15 PM
I wouldnt feel good with AM accepting credit card payments. Thats way too risky. Similar to getting paid with paypal.

So all the websites that accept credit cards are doomed and should immediately stop ?  Huh

No, but this is a BTC business and it is in all of our best interests that they only sell for BTC.

I kind of agree, but kind of disagree too.

Selling mining gear in traditional currencies might engage people who cannot get hold of BTC otherwise. Then again, selling for BTC grows the "bitcoin economy". In my opinion, one doesn't need to necessarily exclude the other, as long as risks are properly considered...

I tend to agree taking whatever you can to make the sale is the right course, and PayPal is far less risky than credit cards.  These are physical products being shipped via trackable shippers, so no disputes would be lost.
186  Other / Archival / Re: btt on: June 04, 2013, 05:23:34 PM
I hope to be wrong, and our secondary market Avalon makes a profit.  But I'm not optimistic, for the same reasons I haven't invested in any Batch 3 group buys or assets. 

I don't expect we ever spend a bitcent for secondary Avalon, anyone with an Avalon will be unwilling to sell for a price creativex is willing to pay, but I do expect we take delivery of our pre-orders before we buy anything else.  I'm not trilled with ASICMINER-PT shares, but it will triple the current dividend and get us back to a level seen back in March.
187  Economy / Securities / Re: SANDSTORM: - A Collective Investment Vehicle for BTC. - on: June 01, 2013, 02:15:05 PM
This isn't a short term thing for me i guess i'll just have to prove my integrity over time.

The long scam
188  Economy / Securities / Re: [BitFunder] AMC-The Official Active Mining Cooperative Discussion on: May 30, 2013, 08:39:39 PM
It looks like someone put in a sell order of over 2k shares at .00089999 (probably someone who bought at .0005) at the same time kslaughter had a large sell order at .0009.

kslaughter then changed his .0009 sell order to .00089998 so it would jump in front of the .0008999 sell order.

The shananagans continue...

I think more folks would take this IPO more seriously if the IPO price wasn't being manipulated so blatantly. For example, kslaughter said there would be 20,000,000 early adopter shares available at .0005, but has continued to try to force the price of early adopter shares up with large sell orders at .0005, .0006, then .0007, .0008, and then .0009.

As I was typing this email, a large block of shares just showed up at .0008!

Bakewell only wishes he had these talents
189  Economy / Securities / Re: [BTC-TC] TAT.ASICMINER New Micro-share Passthrough! on: May 29, 2013, 09:01:06 PM
Well, this is awkward. I didn't even realize double dividends were paid out (and already reinvested).

If it turns out the payment has to be covered by TAT, I will refund the amount to help ensure that the PT continues it's operations... this can be done through BTCT's internal transfers (just checking) right?

Probably not a good idea to take matters into your own hands even when you are doing nothing but the right thing.  We don't know yet how burnside will want to handle this, so doing nothing, or as much of nothing as possible is the only prudent course.
190  Economy / Securities / Re: [BTC-TC] TAT.ASICMINER New Micro-share Passthrough! on: May 29, 2013, 04:36:43 PM
TAT, I appear to have received my dividend payment twice. Is this a reversible error, and if not how do I get the "extra" payment back to you?

I thought it was just a dup email, but indeed I see 2 dividends for today
191  Other / Archival / Re: btt on: May 28, 2013, 04:23:36 PM
My only problem with ASICMINER is there is a lot of future hardware sales priced into the shares, and as fickle as this market is, and as stupidly as they trade, at least buy on the bid which is very thin, so if someone crushes the bid you are there supporting it somewhat.

I personally wouldn't buy as large an exposure, as few as 30-40 shares would double our weekly dividend rate.  I just have a mental malfunction letting lose of the bank with the risk of someone else's mining, even though I do hold ASICMINER-PT personally. So it is not the security suggested, it's the current value and the ease to get out if needed.  Sure we can get out easy now while the demand is high, but when we want out, it will be under other circumstances, mostly something negative has happened, like the Chinese government sticking their nose where it doesn't belong.
192  Other / Archival / Re: btt on: May 24, 2013, 01:51:28 PM
How many shares are there?

It looks a little confusing. Stockholder agreement states "5000 shares of bASIC-MINING will be offered at approximately
.33BTC each and the funds raised in this IPO"

yet further up it states shares outstanding "Outstanding 3832 / 100000 Issued"

Does this mean from the IPO only 3832 shares have been issued and the rest are still being bought? Further whats with the 100000 in total? Does this mean that there is potentially another 95000 to be issued in the future.?

I think I have it figured out, there are 5000 shares authorized in the IPO, 100,000 total authorized, but after the 5000 requires shareholder approval and will follow the same 4:1 split with creativex getting 1 share for every 4 sold.
193  Other / Archival / Re: btt on: May 23, 2013, 09:54:12 PM
If you're not arguing that "asicminer blades are a great investment or that the avalon chips are a must buy", then what are you arguing? Those are the options available at this time and only one of them will result in a viable product in hand in the short term. While it's difficult to find a smart way to deploy capital at this time, I believe that will change in the near future and I'd like bASIC-MINING to be prepared to take full advantage of the opportunities that present. We've all seen how quickly opportunities can be missed, Avalon batch sales, ASICMiner auctions, etc.

Clearly he is trying to shake weak hands to buy cheaper shares, but looks like treasury shares are still selling just fine

i.e. Don't feel the trolls Wink
194  Other / Archival / Re: btt on: May 23, 2013, 08:32:10 PM
Yikes, shares getting scooped up fast today!  Was waiting for a bank transfer to clear to get some more, looks like I might not be getting as many as I planned!   Cheesy

You can always buy MININGCO.ETF which sets it's NAV based on the 7d average, last updated bASIC-MINING at .50 as a way to slide in a bit cheaper
195  Other / Archival / Re: btt on: May 23, 2013, 06:34:39 PM
Some nice volume and price increase here.  I hope it keeps up!

Here's a chart (warning, dev server in alpha):

http://coinflow.co/chart/BASIC-MINING



Only thing I would wish for is ability to compare with another security on BTC-TC, but great job with what you have !
196  Economy / Securities / Re: [BTC-TC and BF] MININGCO.ETF - Mining Company ETF on: May 22, 2013, 05:05:08 PM
We now own a share of ASICMINER-PT.

Very slick buying prior to the dividend payout today Wink
197  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It on: May 22, 2013, 04:53:42 PM
Show me a conventional mutual fund with dividends equal to Asicminer and I will give you a back rub with a happy ending!

That was never the issue. The issue is facts. I'm merely correcting his statement that not all mutual funds manage billions in assets.

Some mutual funds charge a front-load, transaction fees, or 12b-1 fees. But not all. If you have a brokerage account, you can always take advantage of no-load, no-fee funds. So I'm not sure vortex1878's point reflects "most" funds.

Past and current returns from AM have been stellar. Whether future returns are as good (or better) is pure speculation, or at best an educated guess, just like on Wall Street.

Whether 5% management fee is too much, too little, or just right, is ultimately for the individual investor or the market to decide.

But this discussion is on TAT micro shares, correct, and the management fee is 5% only on the dividends, so the management fee of other funds that charge on total assets under management are not comparable. Also, if you don't wish to pay the 5% fee on dividends, don't buy the TAT vehicle, just that simple, everyone can make their own intelligent choice, but the discussion doesn't belong in this thread, one of the TAT threads would be a more appropriate place.
198  Economy / Securities / Re: [BTC-TC and BF] MININGCO.ETF - Mining Company ETF on: May 22, 2013, 03:48:07 PM
I just feel without some exposure to ASICMINER it will be a never ending battle against difficulty.

Unfortunately, mining is a never ending battle against difficulty. That's why most of our underlying assets have "growth funds."

Regarding ASCIMINER, I would like to hear other opinions about including it in our fund.

Maybe I am mistaken, but I thought we had this discussion a month or so ago, you had suggested putting a motion forward, which ultimately wasn't needed, and the end result was you felt ASICMINER was simply over valued and I had pointed out lack of funds anyway to open a position.  With the micro pass throughs opening a position is not a difficult task any longer.

Maybe ASICMINER is over valued, but as it has risen 200-300% since your declaration, exposure might not have been terrible even in the smallest exposure.

My goal is not to rock this boat, if it was I'd add in a long dribble again about Cognitive, but maybe instead of new funds being used to maintain the allocations we currently hold, it go to opening a position in some ASICMINER security, my hope would be either direct ownership or the Burnside passthrough, but the TAT micro passthrough would be acceptable as well.
199  Economy / Securities / Re: [WTB] 2500 Shares of BITVPS on BTC-TC on: May 21, 2013, 12:51:23 AM
I am looking to purchase 2500 shares of BITVPS on BTC-TC. The reason for posting here is that volume for BITVPS on BTC-TC is low and I'm hoping to find interested sellers who would be willing to deal with me directly. BTC-TC allows for free transfers of assets and bitcoins so deals like this are easy to enact. I am also happy to discuss using an escrow service to enact this trade. As of this writing, the current bid/ask spread is .00061/.000697. Is anyone willing to meet me in the middle and sell at .00065?

Put a bid up for 2500 shares at your desired price, you might actually get filled
200  Economy / Securities / Re: ASICMINER: Entering the Future of ASIC Mining by Inventing It on: May 20, 2013, 08:27:57 PM

"Diversification is a protection for ignorance, It makes very little sense for those who know what they're doing." - Warren Buffet

Don't know if this is Warren Buffet supporting the idea of diversification, or sarcasm.  Let's take a look at what Warren has as of Dec 21, 2012.

1.) Wells Fargo & Co ........ financial
2.) Coca Cola Co .... consumer
3.) International Business Machines .... tech company
4.) American Express Co .... financial
5.) Procter & Gamble Co .... consumer goods
6.) Wal Mart Stores Inc .... department stores
7.) U S Bancorp Del ... financial
8.) Directv ... cable tv service
9.) Davita Inc ... health care
10.) Phillips 66 ... oil and gas
11) KFT ... food
12) INTC .... tech
13) Viacom ... cable tv service
14) Ingersol Rand ... industrial goods
15) National Oil Well Varco  ... oil and gas
16) Johnson and Johnson ... drug
etc.


His personal wealth is comparable to the market value of a lot of those companies. I'd say he diversifies partly because he's forced to. It's hard to buy a lot of shares even when you have the money, and when you try it's hard not to end up buying more expensive shares. Then it's also not easy to find a nice way to cash out when you hold lots of stock.

Just to be clear...

Buffet's net worth: ~53B

Walmart's market cap: 256B
Proctor and gamble: 216B
Johnson & Johnson: 239B
Wells fargo: 213B
IBM: 230B

To pretend like he is "forced" to diversify is to completely ignore the scale of those companies.  Just adding those 5 up is an order of magnitude off from his net worth.

I'm not taking a side or making any point other than that particular logic doesn't work here.

Berkshire Hathaway's market cap (464B) which is what owns all those above is the 5th largest company in the world, behind Exxon Mobil, Apple, General Electric, and Cheveron. Buffet's net worth is just his holdings in BRK-A

Also, not taking sides, the man is very talented with investing, I wish I could learn 1/2 of what he's forgotten over the years.
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