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1821  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Shift the decimal point over? on: June 26, 2011, 04:41:21 AM
I think it'd be suicide to revalue the BTC now, and it'll cause problems with people who don't upgrade old clients. Now that Bitcoin has been featured in Forbes and The Economist and people are trading at $20, this isn't very early days anymore.
This!

People use millilitters and milligrams, what's the problem using millibitcoins? Rename it if you want but we can't change BTC value
Agreed.
Any change in the definition of a bitcoin would be suicide.

Repeat after me: There will never be more than 21 million Bitcoins. Ever.
1822  Economy / Marketplace / Re: [15 BTC bounty] A tutorial for simple functions in Clojure (and BACnet) on: June 26, 2011, 04:01:25 AM
The bounty is still available!
1823  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why I'm Wary to Invest (Change my mind and I'll give you 1 BTC) on: June 26, 2011, 01:15:38 AM
I'm also a bit surprised about the first to market and Facebook examples.  Facebook was most definitely NOT first to market.  Asian Avenue, MySpace, there were tons of predecessor social networking sites.  Facebook just improved on those concepts.  If anything, Facebook strengthens my point.  It's the latest and most successful incarnation of social networking.  But first?  Not even close.

Neither is Bitcoin. There was many, many, MANY attempt at virtual currency. Bitcoin is simply the most successful incarnation  Wink

You give as an example for high-barrier-to-entry business Pfizer. However, this barrier is artificial and created by a web of regulations. I would not invest my money in such politic-dependent enterprise, but rather in those which create real value.
1824  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Why I'm Wary to Invest (Change my mind and I'll give you 1 BTC) on: June 25, 2011, 10:33:39 PM
Oh boy... here I go!  Grin

Let me start by saying that I do not know all of the facts, which is the reason for this topic.  The person who can provide the most convincing argument to my concerns will be given 1 BTC should I decide to invest.  That incentive is just to put out there, really what I would like is a civil and hopefully mostly troll-free discussion. 

From the FAQ, "in the first 4 years of the Bitcoin network, 10,500,000 BTC will be created."  So 2,625,000 BTC's per year.  BTC's fluctuate in price but lets use $15 per BTC as a baseline.  In order to sustain that price over a year period, NEW money would have to be injected in excess of $39 million per year.  Perhaps slightly less as not all will go to market, so lets say, $30 million.  First problem I see:

Where does this money come from?  We have very small scale exchanges, and the largest one has been hacked and isn't even open yet.  A further barrier is the $1,000 transaction limit.  How do you get $30 million a year in with that sort of limit imposed.  Yes, that limit can be removed by providing verifying information, however, the scale we're talking about is going to take institutional investors.  Will these institutional investors be willing to lose their anonymity to invest here?  And even so, the next is my biggest concern....

Everything you have said there is true, but might lack some important information, or rather deductions.
For the sake of argument, I'm willing to assume the daily 1000$ limit will stay the same in a worldwide competition of exchanges, each of them in a different jurisdiction. (I hope you see how this is hard to believe.)
Even if the amount of bitcoins to be sold was as high as you think (which I doubt, many are simply saving them), exchanges are only one method of getting BTC. I got all my BTC by buying directly from miners.
Another method, which will not be shown when you look at numbers on MtGox or TradeHill, is to sell or work for BTC. This is at the moment wrongly overlooked, because it is way easier for a merchant to accept BTC than any other currency. Once again: a merchant can setup is own business and start accepting payment without a single call to a bank. You want to try a little website project? Use Bitcoin! So in response to your first concern: you don't literally need new money to come in, but rather new value. What is the value of a monetary system without the need of a middle man? No overhead, no paper to fill, no delays, no frozen account. This is a good news for everyone producing something of value. 

Quote
Bitcoin in unpatented intellectual property.  Everyone who has ever taken an Econ 101 class should understand the law of supply and demand.  Lets say BTC gets this $30 million investment per year, that sort of money is going to spur competition.  As long as there is demand and profit to be made, competitors will come.  The primary protection against competition is patents, trademarkets, etc..   Lets look at a company like Pfizer for example and their immensely successful drug Lipitor.  Lipitor is patented resulting in Pfizer being the only drug manufacturer allowed to produce the product.  Once that patent runs out, generic brands of the drugs will come online and Pfizer will no longer be making large gains on the drug.  They know this, everyone knows this. 

Bitcoin has no patent and in fact, is open source.  There is nothing to stop a competitor from coming in, copying the model, maybe even improving on it, and bring it to market.  Look at it this way, if you're an investor would you really invest multi-millions of dollars worth of capital in something that can be copied today?  Why not create your own?  Whose to stop Google from coming in and making Googlecoins?  Any profitable venture will result in competition.  This may be good for P2P currency's longevity but I'm strictly talking about BTC from an investment standpoint.  If it were legal to make an exact copy of Lipitor and bring it to market today, would it happen?  You're damn right it would.
The network effect is in play here.
Can I go and make a website identical to Facebook? Sure! (Please don't bring any intellectual property argument - there is more than one country in the world, many in which it is perfectly legal to do so.)
But if I make such a site, who will come? All your friends are already on Facebook...
The same thing is true with Bitcoin. The websites are being developed for BTC, the exchanges in place are for BTC, the name Bitcoin is known! (Brand power)

The other argument in favor of BTC in this case is the blockchain. The longer it is, the harder it is to counterfeit. In addition, the current hashing power in the network is huge, making it more secure than any other wannabe Bitcoin clone.

Quote
I have other concerns, the bad press, the security issues, lack of merchants, etc. but really those are my two big ones and they sort've tie in together.  Again, I'm coming at this from an investment standpoint.  I see Bitcoin's value as rampant speculation.  I don't want to use the "B" word, but the price appreciation is unsustainable (LONG-TERM) in my view.
There is no such thing as bad press for Bitcoin in the current stage of its development. All you can do is attract new users. Current users know when articles are BS.
The lack of merchant is temporary. If you have looked at the wiki merchant's list a month ago and compare it to what it is now... wow, simply wow!

If it isn't already done, you might want to look at this article: http://falkvinge.net/2011/05/29/why-im-putting-all-my-savings-into-bitcoin/

1PNxesEoWQViHZ8BSjpodqmBB9RpbWFVhT
1825  Bitcoin / Press / Re: Bitcoin press hits, notable sources on: June 24, 2011, 04:47:21 AM
In response to Doug Casey: http://www.dollarvigilante.com/blog/2011/6/23/a-wild-few-weeks-for-bitcoin.html
1826  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: ClearCoin Closing on: June 23, 2011, 11:16:45 PM
That's really sad, the canadian OTC was using it on a daily basis: https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Secure_Trading-CAD-interac

Hopefully you will be able to do what you like with the main BTC client.
Godspeed!
1827  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin: Now with fractional reserve? on: June 20, 2011, 11:08:06 PM
Might have been like this for a long time, who knows?

That's why I like to keep my BTC out of those places.

I predict we will see the first Bitcoin bankrun.
1828  Economy / Economics / Re: What you guys doing when the exchanges open? on: June 20, 2011, 04:59:19 PM
Would this be the first Bitcoin bankrun? Exciting!  Grin
1829  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: The Aftermath - Where will it leave BTC? on: June 20, 2011, 04:37:35 PM
Same thing!
Hopefully my transfer will be done by the time some weaklings decide to sell!  Grin
1830  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A little call for reason on: June 19, 2011, 04:17:50 PM
The last three months have seen a strong correlation between BTC price and user numbers (growth in user numbers can be estimated from alexa.com, google trends, and forum membership)

That seems perfectly sustainable to me.  

Now that bitcoin has been in the mainstream media and most people have heard about it, price is levelling off.  I don't see a bubble anywhere.

I think you greatly overestimate that "most people have heard about it". Give it another year.

As long as I look like a nutjob for bringing Bitcoin as a topic of conversation, I will not consider that "most people have heard about it".
1831  Economy / Marketplace / Re: [PENDING-20 BTC bounty] A tutorial for simple functions in Clojure (and BACnet) on: June 18, 2011, 12:27:51 AM
Hello all!

A great fellow sent me a quick draft.
It didn't fully fulfill my desires, but I still sent him 5 BTC. The bounty is now [15 BTC]!

Here is what I have so far:

Quote
1. Install leiningen. That is, download the script from
   https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen
   and run 'lein self-install'

2. Create a project, for example:
   lein new clj-bacnet
   to create a project skeleton in clj-bacnet directory

3. Add bacnet4j as dependency.
   Leiningen prefers to obtain its dependencies from a maven repository.
   Since I didn't find any, I took the liberty of adding a copy of bacnet4j
   to the clojars.org repository.

   After adding the bacnet dependency your project.clj should look like this:

(defproject clj-bacnet "1.0.0-SNAPSHOT"
  :description "FIXME: write description"
  :dependencies [[org.clojure/clojure "1.2.1"]
                 [org.clojars.jarpiain/bacnet4j "1.2.0"]
                 [org.clojars.jarpiain/sero-utils "1.0.0."]])

4. Run 'lein deps' to download the bacnet jars (and a copy of clojure)
   to your project directory

Now you can run 'lein repl' and start playing with bacnet4j objects

For example,

(com.serotonin.bacnet4j.Network. 1 (byte-array (map byte [127 0 0 1])))

creates a new Network object
#<Network Network(networkNumber=1, networkAddress=[7f,0,0,1])>

and

(.getNetworkAddress *1)

calls the getNetworkAddress method on it.

To avoid typing the package name, enter e.g.

(import '[com.serotonin.bacnet4j Network LocalDevice RemoteDevice])

in the REPL. Then the previous example would look like
(Network. 1 (byte-array (map byte [127 0 0 1])))

Leiningen created a src/clj_bacnet/core.clj in the project
and you can add the import declaration

(ns clj.bacnet.core
  (:import [com.serotonin.bacnet4j Network LocalDevice RemoteDevice]))

to use the short names in your code.

With emacs and SLIME you can add lein-swank as a dependency and start
a swank server with 'lein swank' and then connect from emacs as explained in
http://data-sorcery.org/2009/12/22/lein-swank/

Please note that it took me quite a while to wrap my head around this; I really need things to be explained in details.

The next step should be to create and test the clojure functions. This is where a BACnet knowledge could be handy, if you have any.

Godspeed!
1832  Bitcoin / Press / Re: Bitcoin press hits, notable sources on: June 17, 2011, 04:11:15 AM
Another short video by Stefan Molyneux: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_VewfiuCao
1833  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN] Bitcoin version 0.3.23 released on: June 14, 2011, 03:37:28 AM
I agree, thank you very much indeed!
1834  Other / Obsolete (selling) / Re: Beefjerky.com: Selling Fresh Beef Jerky for Bitcoins, Shipping to +100 Countries on: June 11, 2011, 09:15:44 PM
I am so trying this!

E-mail sent!
1835  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Canadians! I buy your Bitcoins! [back!] on: June 09, 2011, 09:50:35 PM
Interesting.

Do you have any article about that?
Interac makes it clear that one of its advantages is the absence of chargeback.
1836  Economy / Economics / Re: really looking for somebody to build a Canadian market website. on: June 09, 2011, 12:56:28 AM
https://www.cavirtex.com/home

This just came out.
Still in beta.
1837  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Can you still get scammed via clearcoin? on: June 09, 2011, 12:23:05 AM
If you send money via Western Union, you should ask the seller to use the charity option. This way he has no way of getting his BTC back.

It's not 100% secure, but way better than "return to senders after X days".
1838  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Solution: How to shift the decimal on: June 08, 2011, 11:21:10 PM
I'm in favor of keeping the u in uBTC.
We shouldn't be afraid to show how the BTC is now valued more than any other currency (in terms of "numbers").

Also, we all know the max number of BTC is 21 millions. Having to explain how it has been multiplied by a factor of 1000 risks to be difficult.
(Bitcoin is already hard enough to explain...)
1839  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Canadians! I buy your Bitcoins! [back!] on: June 08, 2011, 10:01:43 PM
Hey guys, I'm back!  Grin
1840  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Canadians and Bitcoins on: June 08, 2011, 04:35:35 AM
You should really come to #bitcoin-cad.
Don't expect this to be instantaneous, but you should be able to buy/sell at the current price.
Interac is by far the best way to deal with Bitcoin (until we get a true exchange), and this is how to get the most of it https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Secure_Trading-CAD-interac.

Hopefully I'll have more cash soon!
Gotta catch'em all!
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