cypherdoc I know what you mean, but the USA and half of the world is already in a depression. We never got out. GDP is a horrible measure for growth. GDP only measures economic activity, not growth. It does not say anything about the productivity or sustainability of said economic activity. Also, the GDP we all use is a government statistic, so it should be taken with caution.
i know hugolp. you're perfectly right. but the whole world does look at GDP despite its inherent drawbacks. what was printed today is psychologically devastating and will have an effect. its the rate of change that matters... not to mention all the revisions to the downside. Im sure it will have some effect, but I am also convinced that the whole financial world knows that the GDP is a sham so Im not convinced it will have a devastated effect. They already know. I see all this more as a way to justify QE3 (or however they call it this time). They need to start soon, so they can create a mini-bubble for the elections of 2012 so Obama can have some numbers to point to. its a crazy world. is it priced in, is it not? do they know, do they not? all i know is the stock mkt has ramped the last 2.5 yrs on every whiff of extra liquidity injected by the Bernank desperately trying to imply that we were on our way to recovery. i was never convinced as like you said, none of the problems were ever solved, only exacerbated. now we have an extremely unstable, unbalanced situation. i don't see how they continue their iron grip control over markets. its unsustainable. |
|
|
|
cypherdoc I know what you mean, but the USA and half of the world is already in a depression. We never got out. GDP is a horrible measure for growth. GDP only measures economic activity, not growth. It does not say anything about the productivity or sustainability of said economic activity. Also, the GDP we all use is a government statistic, so it should be taken with caution.
i know hugolp. you're perfectly right. but the whole world does look at GDP despite its inherent drawbacks. what was printed today is psychologically devastating and will have an effect. its the rate of change that matters... not to mention all the revisions to the downside. |
|
|
|
todays GDP with its past revisions were appallingly bad. it's amazing our gov't and banking institutions get away with these manipulations.
neither of the QE's worked for the real economy except to line the pockets of the financial elite via bailouts who widened their wealth disparity from the common American by a significant amount.
when will it end?
Dude, there's a LOT of room at the bottom... as long as the change is gradual, you'd be shocked at what the people will be willing to put up with, and for how long. i've already been shocked. but things are changing faster than you think. |
|
|
|
|
todays GDP with its past revisions were appallingly bad. it's amazing our gov't and banking institutions get away with these manipulations.
neither of the QE's worked for the real economy except to line the pockets of the financial elite via bailouts who widened their wealth disparity from the common American by a significant amount.
when will it end?
|
|
|
|
We thought about that but we ultimately decided to keep it on the rotor - only to be revealed by displaying the beautiful movement through the exhibition case back. In keeping with bitcoin's "cyrpto" theme, it's almost like a "secret key" - displayed only to those you want to share it with.  oh wait!!! i didn't see that! the back is transparent!!!! whoa! very cool.... |
|
|
|
|
i think that is very cool. and i can understand why you chose to hide the BTC on the rotor.
but what about at least a small little "btc" somewhere on the dial that i can point to to my VERY closest friends?
|
|
|
|
Well MtGox probably lies to their bank as well. I cant see how the bank would know and accept that this happened.
Secondly, neither Tradehill nor MtGox are approved by any financial regulatory unit to conduct financial business - that is holding money on behalf of third party.
I dont think anything will change, except if the established banking industry REALLY goes to hell and people start rethinking the model of the banking world. Right now its the same as usual.
thats unlikely. remember mtgox reported their hack to the authorities who initiated an investigation which includes its bank i'm sure. they're even complying by holding all our personal info onsite as well, not to mention the $1000 withdrawal limit. no one expected a 154 yo company like Lehman to go down either, not to mention Bear, Merrill whose total lifespans amount to how many hundreds of years? btw, today is VERY interesting in that the USD is down and BTC is UP. if this trend continues everything you say will unravel in a flash. |
|
|
|
|
how did u get them to do that?
|
|
|
|
i'm not sure that you've been following the bitcoin news lately but there have been SO MANY positive developments just in the past few weeks that its astounding Bitcoin exchanges are much more important to the bitcoin economy compared to everything you've listed! Unfortunately, there is growing evidence that banks block every bank account that bitcoin exchanges use to do their business. That is a fact nobody can deny. I'm quite confident that even Dwolla's recent troubles with all those chargebacks and credit reversal coming from third party banks are due to serving bitcoin exchanges! why then is mtgox's bank still open for wires? and your speculation about Dwolla is trolling. |
|
|
|
I tried mentioning Bitcoin to 3 Swiss banks as I was planning to setup an exchange. They all said no!
Had I lied, I would have gotten accounts open.
That is the world we live in people, BTC is not welcome, FACE IT
i have no doubt that what you say is true. but things are changing fast in the financial world and i for one am not willing to bet that things will continue as they have. the price of gold/silver/btc are testament to that fact. i am betting against the large banks. |
|
|
|
somewhere, sometime, someone is going to break ranks. the liquidity contraction that is going on worldwide will force this. Sure, but it might be the bitcoin 'economy' that is going to break first! Because of liquidity contradiction! Miners and mining pools have to pay their bills in fiat currencies, so they have to constantly sell the bitcoins they earn. The bitcoin exchange rate will go in a downward spiral if there is no bitcoin economy to support it. Without cheap and convenient way to exchange bitcoins against fiat currencies no established merchant will go the bitcoin way! Because enthusiasm can work to a certain limit, after that it is simply a matter of calculations and feasibility! This is why bitcoin exchanges must not depend on banks in such a way, because banks can very easily sabotage everything bitcoin-related. i'm not sure that you've been following the bitcoin news lately but there have been SO MANY positive developments just in the past few weeks that its astounding: 1. Textcoin.uk.co- enables SMS text buying of btc w/o ANY BANKS! and they plan to go international very soon. 2. Bit-Pay-will enable btc holders to buy using btc from any merchant who decides to use their service. and merchants can decide to be paid EITHER in USD or btc. 3. several Android apps that provide POS pmts to merchants that accept btc. there are now 3 restaurants, not one, in NY city that accept btc. 4. Meze Grill will now act as a USD/BTC exchanger w/o ANY BANKS! 5. the proliferation of btc accepting merchants has gone parabolic if you look at the btc wiki page. 6. in case you hadn't noticed, financial stocks have been in a downtrend for 5 months now. B of A is now under $10 a share. if Wall St decides game over for tradtional stocks and bonds you could see an explosion in the BTC price. i actually predict this will happen at some point in the blink of an eye and everyone will be left behind. |
|
|
|
I'd personally like to see adjustments to Bitcoin that make it the backbone of all future proof-of-work systems, that way we wouldn't have hundreds of competing systems all wasting energy. Not sure how/if this is possible though, or what type of other systems will spring up in future.
the longer bitcoin hangs out, the higher the probability that this will in fact be the case. in fact, all this stable sideways action is VERY bullish IMO. |
|
|
|
the first bank that realizes the old game is over stands to make an incredible amt of money as well as establish a leadership role in the bitcoin economy. It is not a question of understanding or a question of will. Why can't people understand this? No bank will be allowed to do this because they will lose their bank license. No government will tolerate such a bank for the same reason that no government can afford to not pay their debt to IMF and the WB! i don't think you can be that dogmatic. for the most part you are correct SO FAR. large banks have acted like mindedly however at the expense of smaller banks. there is clear dissension. and your assumption presumes that things unsustainable can go on forever. yours is the fallacy of linear thinking. somewhere, sometime, someone is going to break ranks. the liquidity contraction that is going on worldwide will force this. or they all go out of business together which i don't think happens. Bitcoin is too good of an idea and is so tightly wound into the digital internet revolution that it will be impossible to ignore. |
|
|
|
|
the first bank that realizes the old game is over stands to make an incredible amt of money as well as establish a leadership role in the bitcoin economy. they will also receive an allegiance from all bitcoiners for the foreseeable future.
if banks won't do, phone carriers already are. see Textcoin.uk.co
look around you at worldwide stock and bond markets, the death of fiat currencies is occurring right here right now before your very eyes.
|
|
|
|
It doesn't really matter, because our grandchildren will inherit the electric debt as well as the bitcoin wealth.
True. They get our debt, but I was more thinking about the debt to Earth's ecosystem. If the bitcoin difficulty rises, think about how many jiggawatts are being added to the system and how much stress there is on our planet. Plus, if bitcoin is going to be releasing new coins until the year 2033, we are probably going to have a zillion plug-in hybrids or full-EV cars on the road. Personally, I hope I own a flying car in the year 2033. Maaaaybe in the future, video cards will become more efficient, but still. I just hate to waste electricity. I have probably 2kw running 24/7 and I know a lot of other people do, too. but if btc takes over and rids us of the over bloated banking system, net net, we'll have cutbacks in wasted electricity.  |
|
|
|
I like the idea of bit-pay and will most probably make use of it in the coming weeks but I must derail this discussion just a tiny bit. Damn you guys picked a gorgeous girl for your advertisement, I only realised what the product was about nearly 90% into the video. Ok back on topic i've been promised she will be at the BitCon in NY next month!!! |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
