The US Treasury BORROWS from the Federal Reserve, a for profit, private corporation. Each dollar borrowed, is then a debt in anyone's hand who holds it. If it were just a fiat currency, then it would actually have value, but something that represents "debt" cannot, at the same time, have "value", unless you value debt, and the only people who value debt are the bankers and debtor institutions built up around them. Debt=Death
Mortgage=Mortuary
You know what? You're right, US dollars have no value, they're worthless. I can't believe I never realized that before now, but it's so obvious now that you've pulled the scales from my eyes. Thank you, sir! As a token of my gratitude for enlightening me, I'm going to offer you a service for no charge: send me your worthless US dollars and I'll dispose of them for you. Imagine the peace of mind you'll feel when you're free of all that debt! tell you what. i'll send you my mortgage. how's that? |
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i like my Yubikey  |
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The fact that it is "debt based" is what makes it a pyramid scheme. This makes no sense. What on earth has debt got to do with pyramid schemes? To be honest with everyone the US monetary system is so insane I don't really want to understand it all. People are actually buying into the dollar in hopes and knowledge that others will come into it, accumulate debt as well, eventually spend that debt with others who have accumulated debt, as therefore offset the debt of the others who bought in early. Consumer (a) decides he wants to make money, but first he must go into debt to start a business. He becomes producer (a). He borrows debt in hopes of making enough debt to offset the initial debt, and have more debt than is needed. Then that debt can be spent. Consumer (b) then comes in and spends borrowed debt with consumer (a) and enriches consumer (a), only when that debt is paid off and there is spendable debt. You need to explain it carefully if I'm to understand what you are saying. Are you saying that when the government puts the economy in boom mode, people will borrow to make money from others borrowing money and ultimately it's a pile of mal-investment and eventually leads to bust mode?  I do understand that the federal reserve prints money and then buys treasury bonds and lends to banks. And as more money is pumped into the system, the more and more money is thrown through the cycles of credit. Don't understand this private ownership of the federal reserve and definitely don't understand the "pyramid scheme" idea still. the Fed artificially manipulates interest rates lower by buying UST's which allows the banks to borrow from the Fed at close to nothing. currently 0-0.25%. this encourages these bastards to hand out money like candy to anyone with a pulse like in the subprime loan fiasco. banks only care about getting the fees and dump the actual subprime loans on investor/ pension funds all over the world. average people see that they can borrow cheaply and start flipping homes (Ponzi) to each other driving the price ever higher until the whole ponzi bubble explodes and lotsa people get hurt. |
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just completed all my buys from Fridays wire and already the btc are sitting safely in my wallet. what a FANTASTIC system!!!!
nothing like it in the world.
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..
I'm looking for insights to the problem posed. Any time you propose going full tilt gold standard, backing gold by BTC, BTC by gold, USD by BTC etc. etc. it's just putting up an abstraction that doesn't actually solve the problem. These all fall in the "you have proposed a solution to spam, here is why it won't work" category. We need to think about this ahead of time, it'll all work out in the end is not a good answer. A few decades of chaos is not a good answer either. BTW, I think the meaning of inflation/deflation is clear from the given context, at least I'm ok with both the 'proper' use of inflation meaning increase in supply of the currency as well as with the 'common' use of increase of prices of goods priced in said currency (which equals devaluation of the currency, which describes the result of said increase in supply). i'm not proposing anything. i'm just suggesting what i think may happen. |
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b/c that would be an international crime and as bad as they might be, i don't think they can afford to get caught stealing to accomplish their objectives. OTOH, if they were caught manipulating prices they could just write it off as "national security".
Except whoever did this did steal enough money to get themselves in serious legal hot water already... not to mention all the money they attempted to steal and give away at knock-down prices. or the 2000 btc could be a concession to Kevin Day? |
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i should also say the hammer is associated with high volume which is sign of a washout or capitulation selling.
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looks to me like we are going to put in a daily hammer on the charts which is a sign of a pending reversal.
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actually all this uncertainly and fear has made me wire money to mtgox as fast as possible to take advantage of the lower prices.
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again, i ask the same question, why wouldn't the hacker just have changed the withdrawal limit to unlimited and just stolen all the wallet keys asap? he instead ignored the wallet, and manipulated the DB to sell the price down to 0 over a 30 min time period risking potential intervention by Mark. i think Kevin Day and others who were able to take money out are just red herrings.
Why wouldn't a government or financial industry attacker have changed the withdrawal limit to unlimited and stolen all available bitcoins ASAP? Crashing the price to zero was spectacular, but in the longer term leaving Mt Gox without enough bitcoins to back its liabilities would be much more damaging... b/c that would be an international crime and as bad as they might be, i don't think they can afford to get caught stealing to accomplish their objectives. OTOH, if they were caught manipulating prices they could just write it off as "national security". |
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do you have any idea how comforting it is to not have funds or btc in the gox?
very.
I know exactly where funds are now and know they are insured.
my guess is there will be a "bank run" on gox at some point, if not already happening.
LOL, i just wired money to mtgox on Friday expecting a selloff and do you know how happy i am that i did? i've been buying hand over fist on the way down and am already in the green with this buy! |
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$3/$11 is a 27% move. must've tripped a circuit breaker.
didn't anyone tell Mark the Dow only trips on the way DOWN?!
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I know that bitcoin won't fail because there are enough smart people in the room that can see through all the disinformation spreading on the forum nowadays.
Agreed. I'm with bitcoin until the very end. Whether that means it withering to two nodes or blossoming to millions. +1 |
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. However, when I get a bank loan to buy a house, we know the bank creates the money at that point and credits my account with it. But when I pay the owner of the house from whom I buying, he then gets the dollars. When he has them, his dollars are not "based on debt." Nobody has a claim to his dollars except him.
to create those dollars to allow you to buy the home, the debt in the system has to be increased by the amt of the mortgage. those extra debt based dollars have now devalued the dollars the seller of the house received so yes, they are debt based. in addition there is interest to be paid on those new debt based dollars by you, the new mortgage holder. |
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Okay I'm confused. I understand the US Federal Government is mired is massive debt. I understand how this translates into future taxes to be paid by the populace. I understand the Fed creates money out of thin air. But how is the USD "based on debt." I don't get that... I don't even know what that means? The USD isn't "based on" anything. It's just a fiat currency, created at whim and a certain amount each year. Someone please educate me its not entirely based on debt, but the great majority of it is. think of the Feds balance sheet which theoretically is guaranteed by the American people. the right side, liabilities, is simple; composed of all FRN's (USD's) to the tune of 3 trillion. BTW, it used to be 800 billion in 2007. the left side, assets, USED to consist entirely of gold when we were on a full gold std. hence every USD was backed by a hard asset, not debt. when the Fed was created, both sides of the balance sheet started expanding enormously in USD terms. the right side in FRN's, and the left side from the issuance of US TREASURIES (debt). thus we began the unpegging to gold and replaced it with debt guaranteed by the American people. you could think of the ratio of UST's to gold as the leverage ratio. of course this has now gotten out of hand with the debt (UST's) vastly exceeding the gold portion on the asset side. we can't practically pay this back and hence the enslavement of the US taxpayer. |
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the US housing bubble was a classic ponzi scheme facilitated by easy credit from the Fed keeping interest rates at artificially low levels, ie, printing/pumping money into the banking system. do you disagree?
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I missed the part where it was actually explained how the US dollar is a pyramid scheme.
how about Geithner doubling the entire national debt in just the last 3 yrs? how about the Feds balance sheet going from 800 billion to 3 trillion in the last 3 yrs? how about every city, town, and state in the Union crumbling under the weight of surging deficits? how about the unemployment rate at 9%? how about the recurring downturn in the housing mkt, the main asset of most Americans? how about 40 million Americans now on food stamps? i could go on and on. btw, these are all records as in never seen before levels of economic impoverishment. |
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A Bitcoin Standard. This doesn't answer the deflation question. Neither does fractional reserve banking (in fact deflation complicates that). Economically speaking there is little difference between a Bitcoin or gold standard, apart from Bitcoin supply being more deterministic. Practically speaking, if you back a currency with Bitcoin, then why not use Bitcoin instead of said currency? we could allow a reasonable amount of fractional reserving, say 10:1, that could prevent an entire collapse of the existing system. FR is besides the point. It increases the amount of circulation (which may or may not cause inflation), but BTC in circulation (or not) will still deflate at the same rate. And as said, why would a bank not buy BTC with USD when they see the deflation coming? A similar thing is happening with countries like China and Russia buying gold (and some SDR) and getting rid of USD. USD is going down the toilet, so gold (and SDR to some extent) is deflating in relation. OK, USD may not go down the toilet, but whatever they come up with for that, someone will have to pay the price. Most probably US citizens the most, the rest of the world to a lesser extent (USD is part of the SDR basket). personally, i don't like the term "deflating or inflating currency". i prefer thinking about this in terms of "inflation or deflation" which in my definition is the increase or decrease in the supply of money plus credit. one of the major arguments by gold bugs is the unbacked USD. their solution is to revalue the price of gold by taking the total amt of USD in the world and dividing by the number of gold ounces in the world coming up with a figure IIRC of about $65K per oz. this would be accompanied by a cessation of money printing and leverage thus reinforcing a complete gold std. you could do the same thing with btc and i would argue it would be more efficient. but you could easily enforce a 10:1 leverage ratio upon the USD with btc backing. i think a compromise of this sort will have to happen (instead of going to an all btc system) to appease the fiat boys by allowing them some form loan making. |
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All kinds of bitcoin posts For idleminer and using it with bot farms.
then i go to the marketplace and see them selling/buying all kinds of anon products, shady services yet...
it never occured to these retards to ACTUALLY USE bitcoins!
*facepalm*
its like the chinese discovering gunpowder years before the europeans and use it for.... fireworks.
you mean they're using USD's!!!? OMG, ban USD's Schumerpunk!!! |
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