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1881  Economy / Economics / Re: Which country looses the most when Bitcoin becomes the Currency of Planet Earth on: September 29, 2015, 02:27:14 PM
I think that no losses will be for every country. To be only bitcoin money of the world and to disappear all the national currencies is totally impossible. First of all because bitcoin is in a limited amount and unable to cover all the needs for money for all the countries. Then for hundred reasons: political and economical firstly.

So the only way to be currency of the world it is to be known and regulated by every country and to be used in addition with the currencies of every country. In this case no one can lose nothing. The change of bitcoin with the national currencies (if already don't exist) will be only a determination of the value of the currency of the given country with bitcoin. Made according to the normal rules used in this cases. Made like is made the determination of the change between us dollar and euro in the year when euro were created. Maybe a little different and to be thought how because bitcoin is not a normal currency. It is not have behind his some economy or power or country which can support it. But loss will not be whatever were be the rules. Because no one can win. Behind bitcoin is no one. So if it will be no one there is be no one which can win (always if it will be something to win).

Then we come to the way in which bitcoin can be made currency of the world. If you have the patience and the desire to read something about this then I invite you te read this thread here when it is exposed an "insane" idea about this: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1191118.0

Naturally the comments are welcomed.  Smiley
1882  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin or gold? on: September 29, 2015, 02:02:53 PM

Can you tell me the amount of "your" value of bitcoin and explain me it why that amount of value is that amount? In economy if the value have no amount there is not value.

I can do this with "my" value.

Its hard to measure, and i`m not an expert in valuation analysis.

But it's a common thing in economy that value not always equal price. This makes the markets inefficient, and can give opportunity for speculators to exploit this.


But just to give an estimate: I`d value bitcoin at over 2000$/piece right now personally.

First: If you are not an expert in valuation you must not know the matter about you speak. I this cases no one which think a little don't speak. Because must tell bullshits. Like those you wrote above.

Second: I have not asked you the entire value of bitcoin but your value of bitcoin. In other words the value of things you give above and speak in your reply.

Third: Where is based your estimate? Which argument can give you that the value of bitcoin is that value you give? Give me only one. Or you answer is only because you have the need to speak about everything and answer to every post.
1883  Economy / Economics / Re: How to save money. on: September 29, 2015, 01:46:42 PM
The easiest way to save is to set up automatic transfers on your bank account.

For example, transfer 10% of your salary every month on to a side account that you force yourself to not access for a certain period of time

And just forget about it for a while Smiley

Yes it is good idea but one shouldn't have a easy access for that account. If he/she got easy access then there are chances they may use it when they need it.
yeah banking your money is good but theres such a thing that we consider like the inflation because it can affect our money in bank, after a year our money will value will decrease. And take all the insurances don't think that insurances are another payment, it will help you in the future.

The money will be affected by inflation everywhere will be. So this factor cannot be in consideration when someone need to take a decision about where to send the savings. In bank or everywhere else the savings will have inflation. Exact in the same amount. So this is not a factor that cannot leave us to save the money at the bank. There will have the same loss from inflation like in every other place. I don't know some place which protect the savings from inflation. At least in my country. If you know any please write here because I am curious to know that.
i only know that inflation can't affect your money and you want to save your money, save it or keep it from your wallet just exchange it into bitcoin and from this way you can also earn some profit by exchanging your bitcoin to your fiat money higher than when you exchange your money into bitcoin.

First the inflation of money don't depend from your money. If the inflation will be (for some reason which have no importance to be told here) will be for sure. Whatever you do. Converting or not your money in bitcoin from you have nothing to do with inflation. If you do this (change your fiat money in bitcoin) first you will be never sure that will earn more from this action. You don't know in which direction will go the price of bitcoin. In other words if the value of bitcoin compared to your ex fiat money go down you will lose for sure. This is the first thing (and the first loss).

Then one day you will be forced to change again those bitcoin in fiat money to use it in the reality. Bitcoin cannot be used to buy bread or clothing or to go to the cinema. In that moment you will have again the previous fiat money. And if that fiat money during the time you had those in bitcoin it would be inflated the money you will have from bitcoin will be for sure inflated. So in conclusion. If you do what do you want to do and have wrote in your post you will lose not only from the decrease of the price of bitcoin but even from inflation.

If the price of bitcoin will go high you will earn from this but for sure you will lose again from the inflation when will realize the above cycle. Which is obligated to be made. Who will be the result of your actions in this case have no interest to be discussed regarding the matter we are discussing.
1884  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin or gold? on: September 29, 2015, 01:17:56 PM
That is true but if the derivative market collapses, there it goes the whole economy. 1 ounce of gold bought you a nice suit 100 years ago, it does the same today. Regardless of how many 0 you put next to a printed toilet paper fiat.

But bitcoin on the other hand can raise in (real) value too. While gold is inflationary, with no new value added to it at all, it only preserves value.

On the other hand bitcoin gains value each day, independent of fiat. Why because bitcoin is actually used as a currency, gold is not.

1 bitcoin would buy you a suit now, but in 10 years it will buy you a yacht probably Cheesy

It is not true the part in blue and in bold. Bitcoin is not gains any value each day. The true value of currency (bitcoin) is value that currency (bitoin) has in market and the value of bitcoin in market has about ten months that is almost stable.

Actually bitcoin gains value each day, that's a fact.

The price may or may not reflect that, but the value of it is going up, look here:

https://blockchain.info/charts/n-transactions-excluding-popular

https://blockchain.info/charts/n-unique-addresses

https://blockchain.info/charts/estimated-transaction-volume

https://blockchain.info/charts/hash-rate

Both the mining is expanding, and the number of users / nr of bitcoins moved from 1 place to another. These are all giving value to bitcoin.

The fact that the price of bitcoin doesn't reflect this, that`s another thing, but you can't deny that the value is going up.


Can you tell me the amount of "your" value of bitcoin and explain me it why that amount of value is that amount? In economy if the value have no amount there is not value.

I can do this with "my" value.
1885  Economy / Economics / Re: Dollar coming to an end on: September 29, 2015, 12:56:53 PM
There are to many times and to many people that tell that thing. Us dollar is at its end. This story is not told only this year but even years ago. But here we are. Only the last months us dollar was evaluated about 25%. I think it is hard that dollar go at its end. First of all because this will create an big crisis because almost all the country of the world have in their Central Banks us dollar in big quantity as a reserve. The lost of these reserves will cause crisis in every country and no one can know what can happen if this become true. Second because United States have the best economists of the world and they, even if it will be signs of this end, will find the way to go out of this story with success. And third because I don't believe much in the financial figures when it is spoken about money. They have to much importance. But much count even the believe of currency in the people. Us dollar have the most faith in the world compared with the other currencies. Even compared with the local currency. This faith make it more much resistant from various crisis which can have.

Good argument, I am guessing english isn't your native language but I definitely agree with you.  I don't see the dollar going anywhere at all, and if it eventually does, it will not be in anyones life time here.  The dollar is pretty much the closest thing in the world to "world" currency.  

Thanks for the good words. No, English is not my native language and I know that this can be understood when I write. But I think that, even maybe I am not to much good in this language, I am able to express in some ways what i want to say. This conviction and the desire to participate in this forum which the home of bitcoin make me to post here my thoughts. I love bitcoin and talking about it or about the things connected with it make. This make me to being well.

And now since you liked my above post I wanted to introduce you another much more challenging than it and I will be happy if you will express your thoughts about what I had expressed there. You can find it here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1191118.0
1886  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin compare to fiat in future on: September 29, 2015, 12:38:16 PM
No I think you got the intepretation mixed up. If somehow fiat value goes down considerably, that is due to inflation. In other words the same value of fiat which can buy you a certain amount of goods, can now get you lesser amount or quantity of that items. It can be caused by a lot of factors like for example devaluation, uncontrolled money printing, political instability, economic woes, etc. Bitcoin mechanics is different. When you have 21 millions and even less out there, there is not enough coin supply so it works the other way round. This time more goods are needed to get the same unit of bitcoin.

Probably you didn't understand what I have explained. The fiat value goes down (can goes down) considerably even for only one other reason. The increase of value of bitcoin (and only for this). This is the case discussed above. And this is possible to happen in the future.

I don't want to comment your other thoughts.
1887  Economy / Services / Re: [BIT-X.com] OPEN SPOTS Earn Bitcoins by Posting | Signature Campaign on: September 29, 2015, 12:29:12 PM
Please post card related questions in the announcement thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1006153.0

Done. Thanks for the answer.  Smiley
1888  Economy / Service Announcements / Re: [ANN] Bitcoin Debit Card | BIT-X.com | Anonymous or Named | Low Fees! on: September 29, 2015, 12:28:21 PM
Can you please explain what kind of fee is this? What does it mean? I don't understand it:



Thanks!
1889  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin compare to fiat in future on: September 29, 2015, 12:12:32 PM
Hi everyone,
Many people believe that bitcoin will be worth 1000 or 10,000 or even 1 million one day...and i hope it will be but my question/though is
If fiat fails/collapses or the worlds economy goes to S**t and bitcoin price goes up...therefore even if bitcoin is worth 10,000 dollars you will only buy 1 gallon of milk with it. And if all that happens and bitcoin becomes the currency of the world all prices will adjust to bitcoin not to fiat/bitcoin.

Just a thought...


Your reasoning is not correct. If the price of bitcoin will arrive at that amounts (and I hope with all my hart that one day that can be true) there it will be no any change in world economy and in the supermarkets near your home. Everything will continue like before. It is not the increase of value of bitcoin that "command" the economy of one country or of all the world but other factors. That factors will not be affected if the price the bitcoin will increase. So, as I told before, everything will continue like before. The economy of your country will continue to act with the currency with which acted the day before. The bread will have the same price and the money of the country you live will have the same value regarding the bread. You will buy the bread with the same price and will spend the same money like before.

It is another thing if you have bitcoin. In that case you will be in heaven. Because you will change the bitcoin with currency of your country and you can buy the bread practically gratis. And not only the bread but much more things. If the bitcoin will worth 10 000 us dollar for you it is necessary to change only 0.1 bitcoin to have 1000 us dollar. With 1000 dollar in my country can live an entire family for one month. This is the meaning of the increase of the price of bitcoin.

As for your expression in bold this is not possible for thousand factors. But if you want to see one way in which this can be made possible I suggest to read this my thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1191118.0

Every your thought about what you will read there is welcomed.
1890  Economy / Services / Re: [BIT-X.com] OPEN SPOTS Earn Bitcoins by Posting | Signature Campaign on: September 29, 2015, 11:36:41 AM
Bit-X has introduced their new set of debit cards! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1006153.msg12548086#msg12548086

Improvements include: lower fees than ever before, a cashback reward program (10 satoshi per cent - 0.01 USD/EUR/GBP spent through the card) and anonymous options.

If you already have a card activated (and you've passed basic verification) before October 1, you're entitled to a free upgrade to a Named card!

https://bit-x.com/guide/bitx-cards

What is this fee Marko? I don't understand it:


You should ask this Via PM or in official Bit-x thread.
Edit: I see you keep deleting your post and keep making new one again are you testing something?

I don't see the image. I try different sites to create another one but yet I don't see it. You see it?
Oh about that use imgur, or something that uses .jpg or something like that in the end, if you are print-screening I'd advise you to use snag.gy

Thanks for the answer. I used even imgur and was the same here at my pc. My question was. Can you see it? Can you please answer to this answer?
1891  Economy / Services / Re: [BIT-X.com] OPEN SPOTS Earn Bitcoins by Posting | Signature Campaign on: September 29, 2015, 11:33:28 AM
Bit-X has introduced their new set of debit cards! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1006153.msg12548086#msg12548086

Improvements include: lower fees than ever before, a cashback reward program (10 satoshi per cent - 0.01 USD/EUR/GBP spent through the card) and anonymous options.

If you already have a card activated (and you've passed basic verification) before October 1, you're entitled to a free upgrade to a Named card!

https://bit-x.com/guide/bitx-cards

What is this fee Marko? I don't understand it:

1892  Economy / Services / Re: [BIT-X.com] OPEN SPOTS Earn Bitcoins by Posting | Signature Campaign on: September 29, 2015, 11:31:10 AM
Bit-X has introduced their new set of debit cards! https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1006153.msg12548086#msg12548086

Improvements include: lower fees than ever before, a cashback reward program (10 satoshi per cent - 0.01 USD/EUR/GBP spent through the card) and anonymous options.

If you already have a card activated (and you've passed basic verification) before October 1, you're entitled to a free upgrade to a Named card!

https://bit-x.com/guide/bitx-cards

What is this fee Marko? I don't understand it:


You should ask this Via PM or in official Bit-x thread.
Edit: I see you keep deleting your post and keep making new one again are you testing something?

I don't see the image. I try different sites to create another one but yet I don't see it. You see it?
1893  Economy / Economics / Re: Greece gets "Get out of jail free card" Bail out deal reached! on: September 29, 2015, 10:44:18 AM
This finality was inevitable. I never doubt about it. Maybe were questionable the conditions and the figures (and those depended from the political maneuvers) but that the Greeks will pay the debt this was non-negotiable. Not only Germany but even other countries cannot allow that their money goes in vain or be absolved. And in this way must be. Greeks must pay their debt. period. They must learn to work hard and to learn that the money can be won with perspiration. They must learn that an people cannot do "bella vita" with the money of the others. But first of all they must learn to get back the money to their owners. The results of their referendum are a shame. Their want the money of the others but don't want to return back those to they. This is unheard. For more when something like that is invited to be made from their Prime minister. There are no more words to tell about this question.
1894  Economy / Economics / Re: "Deflation" in Europe is actually Inflation in disguise on: September 29, 2015, 10:18:40 AM
As for me deflation is wonderful. And this way must be theoretically for everyone which think only a little. Everything will cost less and with my same amount of money I will have the possibility to do more things with those. To buy more, to have more fun, to live better. More the time goes on more I will better and more I will have and more I will be well. I will have as conclusion always more goods and money.

But the question it is not so easy. In a more complex meaning the economist tell that the deflation, in overall situation, is not good for the economy. They believe that "generally .... deflation is a problem in a modern economy because it increases the real value of debt, and may aggravate recessions and lead to a deflationary spiral." The deflationary spiral is "a situation where decreases in price lead to lower production, which in turn leads to lower wages and demand, which leads to further decreases in price." So it can be see that the overall situation in long term may (can, will) not be improved but deteriorates. For this reason the economists until now has chosen and propagated the inflationary model of economy.

The question is: It is everything right in the above reasoning? Are right the economist? Their thoughts are thoughts or are any case or event which prove those? Only the practice can verified those. And that's the point. There were moments or better periods or situations of deflation in some country of the world during its story. Those testify that the answer to the above questions is mainly yes. Everyone who want to learn more about those can go to Wikipedia (from which are taken even the sentences quoted above from me) following this link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation
1895  Economy / Economics / Re: slovenia and BTC ????? on: September 29, 2015, 09:46:52 AM
Your question is like asking "Why the Americans are so capable to have created the most powerful and developed economy of the world?". There are thousand thoughts and arguments that can be told. Some will be right and some others wrong. But one it will be for sure the right one. Simple because are the most capable people in the world. Are they who which their minds and their hands that have created such economy.

Same with the Slovenians. The research is more developed there because the Slovenians are the most interested people about bitcoin. There are to many people there that are attracted by bitcoin. Maybe not to many common people (I don't know this) but for sure researchers yes. And those people (those who made research) occupy their time and work around and about it. More simple than that cannot be.  Cheesy

If that will be not correct, in the article you have read or in some other place in internet or library must be mentioned the reasons which boost this people to be such friendly with bitcoin. If there are not such the above interpretation remain the most plausible.
1896  Economy / Economics / Re: What's your guess on the price of bitcoin for Jan 2016 and July 2016? on: September 29, 2015, 08:55:53 AM
Yes I agree, but if Apple launches the iCoin tomorrow Bitcoin is doomed. Well you get the idea, if an "official" currency is created by a powerful player and goes mainstream Bitcoin will be instantly the new Litecoin and eventually die or remain an alternative to pay for drugs...

I don't think so. Apple has its followers that are to many. Maybe from all over the world But I think that are not never more than the bitcoiners which are followers of this coin since its creations. There are 6 years that bitcoin exist. The iCoin of Apple need 6 years to arrive bitcoin.

But even without this thought, that might not be true, I don't think that the followers of Apple are more than the followers of bitcoin (which will not abandon it, I think). This is only a feeling and I have no data about this. If will happen we will see.
1897  Economy / Economics / Re: What's pushing up the price today ( Sept 24th ) on: September 29, 2015, 08:44:28 AM
Catalonia  independance soon maybe

So do you think Catalonia if it gets independent will adopt Bitcoin as a national currency? Smiley

No, he is telling that if Catalonia it gets independent will push up the price of bitcoin like the push up of 24th September. Then if will adopt or not bitcoin as a national currency this will be decided with referendum. It will be one like in Greece and then will be made the opposite of it that will be decided by referendum. If the people will tell yes will not be adopted. If will tell no will adopted. Just like in Greece. People voted 60% to not accept the agreement proposed by IMF, EU and ECB and Tsipras after two or three days (I don't remember the exact date) accepted another agreement which was with conditions more severe than the one which was not accepted by the Greeks. This mean intelligence and power.

I know what's was he trying to say, just was just joking. That's why I have put a smile at the end. Anyways, thanks for clarification! Smiley

No problem mate. Thank you too for the thanks. But I have a question. What do you think I made with my post? A clarification or something else?  Wink

Well you have definitely clarified that the person I quoted meant that the possible Catalonia independence might cause the turmoil in Europe once again and that this might cause the increase in Bitcoin price! There you go! Smiley

Finally. There we both go! As a conclusion I think that we must have very attention for Catalonia because from this "yet non country but maybe future country" depends the price of bitcoin. And this, for every bitcoiner, is to much important.  Cheesy
1898  Economy / Economics / Re: A bankster in the UK wants to ban big bills on: September 29, 2015, 08:39:28 AM
...

A bankster at the Bank of England (Charles Goodhart) wants to ban 500 Euro notes as well as 1000 Swiss Franc (that would be some $1050) notes as well.  That will get tongues wagging in the USA to ban our $100...

The War on Cash is ramping up.  Another terrible idea as part of the campaign to destroy our privacy.  Read all about it:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-09-25/goodbye-100-bill-ex-central-banker-demands-all-high-denomination-banknotes-should-be

There are factors that inhibit this request. Not only this. But request bigger banknotes while the time goes on. One of those factors is inflation. The inflation make that if today I buy the bread 1 dollar after ten years I will buy it 10 dollars. If we make comparisons with other goods which cost more and if we will accept the request of this banker to buy something which today cost 1 000 us dollar and after ten years 10 000 us dollars. in the day of shopping we must have a big sack with us full with banknotes with low value and two police man which must guard me from the thieves.

It is another think if it will be "invented" a deflationary economy. In that case the proposition is totally possible. I want to make a parenthesis here: This could be possible if every country in the world (or even one) adopt a currency similar with bitcoin. That economy could be (have the possibility) to be deflationary.

But with our situation I think that the future will deserve always banknotes with bigger value and not abolish they that actually have the biggest value.
1899  Economy / Economics / Re: The future of the paper money on: September 29, 2015, 08:15:07 AM
Andrew Haldane said one solution would be for the Bank of England to issue a state-backed digital currency based on bitcoin. Supporting this initiative would be a negative interest rate levied on paper currency relative to the digital currency, with these measures do you think there is more possibilities that sometime:

Paper money will be banned entirely?
How long do you think that happens?
would it work?
What security and privacy risks would it raise?
And how would public and privately issued monies interact?


I think it is totally possible. Nothing can happen if the paper money doesn't exist. They can be replaced totally with the credit and debit card. The credit and debit card can be connected with the state-backed digital currency based in bitcoin or the national currency digital coin. Every merchant can be prepared to accept those and that's all. Everything is done.

But realistically this thing can happen only and minimum after 100 years. Paper money is to strong as a mentality in everyone. So it is hard to change this mentality. Then we will have those again in our hands for more time to come.

As about the introduction of the new currency I can tell that economically speaking this would be an excellent choice. The qualities of this new choice are to many. The qualities of the new currency are even bigger. England will have the best currency in the world. It will be hard to work with it because have its independence but it will be again a new challenge for the England.
1900  Economy / Economics / Re: What's your guess on the price of bitcoin for Jan 2016 and July 2016? on: September 29, 2015, 08:00:31 AM
A long time ago I bought a house in Canada.  During the previous 12 month the average price was stable and had barely move a dollar. The sales agent told me tomorrow the price will go up $2000.

Hard for me to believe but anyway I signed the papers and bought the house.  One of the things that pushed me to make the purchase was that my girlfriend was at the time crying after I initially told her I don't believe the price will go up and let's wait another week.

 That week I saw in the papers some mention that the house prices had moved up.  People read the papers and started to buy.  In the weeks that followed there were more and more and more reports about price going up and guess what happened ... prices went up.

A year later the same house was being sold for TWICE the price by the builder.

What's my point here.  Well if people think prices will go up then you can bet they do go up !

So what do you "think" will happen to the price of bitcoin ?

By the way I had quite a few friends at that time who wanted to buy but they put in offers after me.  Those guys had the offers rejected so weeks later they tried again and rejected.  It's been a long time but I think the friends never did end up buying.  They were just too late.


I am ready to bet that this is not true. The people can realize other things with their hopes (for example political ones) but not the price of currencies. Who american don't want that us dollar go to the sky? Who of the people in my country don't want that our currency goes 1000 times more the value of us dollar? For the first question I have no answer (maybe I can guess) but I can assure you that every single person in my country wonder the yes of the second above question. Why this desire thought by the people is not realized? You tell me.  Wink

About the prices asked by you in the above days I can tell you the exact ones only if I had the magic crystal ball. Otherwise I am shooting two values only to give you an answer. In the first date the price will go 450 us dollar one bitcoin and at the second date 1 000 us dollar one bitcoin. Hope that all the people think equally with me and in this way, in July 2016 I can have ready at least the money for the university of my two daughters.  Cheesy
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