Re: old beaten topic of buying things with bitcoins (even though I do, even when I don't need to) - it is still a for-fun thing mostly, and maybe in some illegal cases it is the only way so it makes sense there, but until there are more unique things you can only buy with bitcoins, it will be an asset used for hoarding. Why? Because you can not buy anything with bitcoins yet. Bitpay and other converters just help you hide the fact of actually buying with fiat; you are using BTC as the transport (which is an intended method) but you as a merchant are stocking up using fiat and your buyers get BTC using fiat, so the coins are only a transport, you stil buy things with fiat.
And this will be slowly changing, over many years ahead. Don't expect everyone to suddenly start buying everything with bitcoins - because there's currently no need to, only if you don't have access to standard fiat transport methods or you want to anonymize them. Later, when we get more products which are produced and marketed using only bitcoins, which will have prices nominated in Bitcoins (not changing with USD exchange rate), that would be the real BTC market where people would have no choice but to buy with coins, and where salaries would be paid in coins, but it is, again, years from fruition.
The fiats saved in the transportation of my fiat purchases=bitcoin's intrinsic value. That is not what intrinsic value means tho... Take away the monetary uses of bitcoin and what you're left with is its intrinsic value. It is all the other ways you can use bitcoin in when it cannot be used as a trade instrument. Someone mentioned bitcoins could make a neat random number generator. OK, how do we define the value of its possible application in intermediary-less escrow service? Sounds a bit tricky to me. Nah, its simple. Does this valuing have anything to do with the bitcoin being used as a currency? Yes? Then it is not intrinsic. Yea, I guess so, I was just randomly pulling things out of my brain. Anyway, my point was something along the line of "cryptocurrency is as uniquely useful to people as PMs are", in fact you can even count it as something with "industrial applications". |
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Hmmm, a good vehicle to leave Adam in the dust, much better than that train.  |
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Re: old beaten topic of buying things with bitcoins (even though I do, even when I don't need to) - it is still a for-fun thing mostly, and maybe in some illegal cases it is the only way so it makes sense there, but until there are more unique things you can only buy with bitcoins, it will be an asset used for hoarding. Why? Because you can not buy anything with bitcoins yet. Bitpay and other converters just help you hide the fact of actually buying with fiat; you are using BTC as the transport (which is an intended method) but you as a merchant are stocking up using fiat and your buyers get BTC using fiat, so the coins are only a transport, you stil buy things with fiat.
And this will be slowly changing, over many years ahead. Don't expect everyone to suddenly start buying everything with bitcoins - because there's currently no need to, only if you don't have access to standard fiat transport methods or you want to anonymize them. Later, when we get more products which are produced and marketed using only bitcoins, which will have prices nominated in Bitcoins (not changing with USD exchange rate), that would be the real BTC market where people would have no choice but to buy with coins, and where salaries would be paid in coins, but it is, again, years from fruition.
The fiats saved in the transportation of my fiat purchases=bitcoin's intrinsic value. That is not what intrinsic value means tho... Take away the monetary uses of bitcoin and what you're left with is its intrinsic value. It is all the other ways you can use bitcoin in when it cannot be used as a trade instrument. Someone mentioned bitcoins could make a neat random number generator. OK, how do we define the value of its possible application in intermediary-less escrow service? Sounds a bit tricky to me. |
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The fiats saved in the transportation of my fiat purchases=bitcoin's intrinsic value.
I agree, bitcoin is an excellent transport. However until prices are set in BTC the double conversion process equals out the transportation efficiency.
Not for Chinese whose credit cards are usually not even accepted by American online stores.  Also, there's a hanging shadow of having to completely trust the business, especially for large purchases, which tips the scales in fiat's favor now. I would never buy an MBP using bitcoins, for example.
With multisigs implemented, everyone can conduct a third-party less escrow transaction, I suspect this maybe tempting for those merchants who do not want to pay paypal fees. |
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Re: old beaten topic of buying things with bitcoins (even though I do, even when I don't need to) - it is still a for-fun thing mostly, and maybe in some illegal cases it is the only way so it makes sense there, but until there are more unique things you can only buy with bitcoins, it will be an asset used for hoarding. Why? Because you can not buy anything with bitcoins yet. Bitpay and other converters just help you hide the fact of actually buying with fiat; you are using BTC as the transport (which is an intended method) but you as a merchant are stocking up using fiat and your buyers get BTC using fiat, so the coins are only a transport, you stil buy things with fiat.
And this will be slowly changing, over many years ahead. Don't expect everyone to suddenly start buying everything with bitcoins - because there's currently no need to, only if you don't have access to standard fiat transport methods or you want to anonymize them. Later, when we get more products which are produced and marketed using only bitcoins, which will have prices nominated in Bitcoins (not changing with USD exchange rate), that would be the real BTC market where people would have no choice but to buy with coins, and where salaries would be paid in coins, but it is, again, years from fruition.
The fiats saved in the transportation of my fiat purchases=bitcoin's intrinsic value. |
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If you, like me, switch to the bear side for a while and sell a small part of your coins, you will notice how incredible the buying pressure is, and how difficult it's for bears to acheive any sizable progress.
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There are 40k times as many ounces of silver above ground now as there will ever be bitcoins. BTC is much easier to move up and harder to naked short sell since delivery is so easy to demand.
Silver has no chance.
Like it, very persuasive argument.. Yeah but I can't just discover/make up a new atom with a limited supply and call it "Blyther". But there could one day be 40k crypto-coins, each originally inspired by Bitcoin. This is one thing that is bound to keep deterring sceptics... until Bitcoin users start getting it and presenting the FOSS idea properly. Although I still see this as positive, in the next few years there could be 10 new "in-game coins" inspired by Bitcoin, 50 large corporations using private versions of Bitcoin for their supply chain, 100 different company stock schemes that are impossible to "naked short" thanks to Bitcoin technology... And if they're each as big as Bitcoin itself, that's utterly massive growth of 160 times, yet actual Bitcoin users see no increase in price! Given that most Bitcoin users seem to be speculating that they'll get rich easily due to seigniorage because everyone will want to buy-in... I'll have no sympathy if it doesn't work out that way. The question is that physical silver is too difficult to move around to where it's useful, and paper silver can be created at a faster rate than bitcoin. Corporations don't need to use bitcoin for bookkeeping, it's for transactions between different legal entities, and it will win the competition because it already gets the greatest support. |
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Next week or so will be exciting. Possibly have a new client.
He is probably the only remaining useful indicator.  |
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I would like to remind everyone here to really dive into the technical aspect of bitcoin and learn to secure it if you haven't yet, you may have already become richer and a more attractive target for the thieves than you have realized.
Good point. I could imagine it would not be a good idea to forget your charger at home and give your Android phone with $600 in bitcoins to some random waiters to charge it while you are cycling around the town for two hours. This would be particularly stupid if you were an Android developer with a rooted phone with debugging enabled as this makes the private keys readable plain text for both Spinner and Schildbach clients. Glad I don't know such stupid people In fact, I doubt if many people here and out there really spend a bit of time to look at the technicalities of bitcoin, they will not still consider it useless, or a pyramid scheme.I have seen quite a few in this thread who don't even know they can sign a message to prove their holdings, let alone advanced uses of it, bulls or bears. I am confident that once bitcoin grows to a formidable market size, it will immediately become a ridiculously useful financial tool to a lot of people, doing things that could not even be imagined before. |
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I didn't buy since $13.5. I've made a deposit on cavirtex and now I'm wondering what should I do?   Be happy with what you have now, we can't all be exceedingly rich, as there are only 21M coins out there, so the price must move in a least expected way. |
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BTC326 to get to 60.01
We're there. This is a bearish signal though. You know what? Every indicator is on the bears' side, except the price. So, who wins in the end?  Was that /sarc? If not, what indicators do you mean? Maybe 40% sarcasm, 20% frustration, 40% amazement. I can name numerous indicators: the price is already way above the hourly SMA 200, ease of movement is at all-time high(what comes up too fast must come down), ADX is not looking good, not to say the bloody red daily RSI that stays overbought for 2 months and has already performed multiple failure swings, but fucking bitcoin just defies EVERYTHING. |
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BTC326 to get to 60.01
We're there. This is a bearish signal though. You know what? Every indicator is on the bears' side, except the price. So, who wins in the end? |
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This is exactly why Armory uses a scrypt-like algorithm for its wallet encryption. It does the 100,000 hashes of the passphrase, but requires them to all be stored in RAM at once, so you can do 100,000 table-lookups on it to get the final result. This makes GPU-acceleration pretty useless for an attacker (GPU threads usually only have a tiny amount of fast memory, not megabytes). That's why the Armory website advertises "GPU-resistant wallet encryption". (for reference, it's called the ROMix algorithm -- found in the same paper as scrypt, it's just that ROMix is much simpler despite being much less flexible about compute-memory tradeoff)
On the other hand, if you forget your password, you likely remember enough of it that you may only require a few weeks of single-threaded processing to find it.
Sorry, but on the Armory UI it says the wallet is encrypted with AES256, why is that? |
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Very moving and inspirational story, Hal. You know what? I somehow envy you, many of us working in academia have the dream of seeing our pet projects go big and become something truly beneficial to the human race, you have such privileges.
Best of luck and may the force of cryptography and bitcoin be with you.
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Umm.. sorry to disturb, but:
why was it gold, that you are denominating bitcoin in? Why not silver, or stocks, or RE?
cypherdoc, the creator of this thread sold most of his metal (correct me if I'm wrong) in 2011 swapping it for bitcoins. He has been "propagandizing" that bitcoin would outperform gold and has substantial (in my mind) arguments. Some of them are contained in this article: http://web.archive.org/web/20120403154846/http://bitcoinmedia.com/bitcoin-vs-metalsI think cyperhdoc had mostly gold and less other metals. That probably answers the question? Besides, there was this guy called silverbox trying to ridicule his decision, thus the never-ending retailation. |
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I redistributed 3 coins last night at $55, to whomever scoop it up at the bottom, good luck with your new wealth. |
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Who wants more?
Hi Loaded, were you just like" You do not want to give me your coins at $56? No worries I am just gonna destroy you all."? |
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Maybe we should create a new phrase: the "Cyprus effect".
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Wow, someone just set up a 12,000 BTC buy wall at $56... any bears want it?
Edit: Aaaaaaaaaaaaaand it's gone. Typo maybe?
The guy decided:" WTH I will just buy at the market price." |
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