as long as they dont add ID verification into gavins QT program. the only ID bitcoin needs is the privkey to prove you own the specific public key in the bitcoin ledger.
Just an aside, but sometimes you need to prove you are the *only* owner of the priv key, which is tricky. all it proves is that you CONTROL things, it doesn't prove that you own them, that distinction is becoming ever so important. as for the opening post, I speculated that today's news of their arrival would result in a media-hype bump worth $50 (coinbase $625 start up to $675), sadly it seems the news only got about a $29 bump ($625 to $654). oh, and this was in addition to the news that a US judge ordered Gox funds frozen (well at lease some of them), that alone should have been worth $50. Seems like the media-hype button isn't working like it used to anymore. . |
|
|
|
|
sorry it didn't work for me as of yet, it said 10mins.
I'll try again later.
|
|
|
|
I just launched a microwallet.org faucet at http://coinomega.comGive it a shot and let me know if you have any suggestions. I'm going to make changes in the coming weeks to better differentiate it from the other faucets out there. I like the way it looks, I will try it |
|
|
|
Having read the entire thread and many other on this subject I have come to a single and irrefutable conclusion and that is I now want to eat some fruitcake.
hahahahaa ... dude, where have you been? I thought for sure you would be one of the main investigators Lol I have been trying to buy some mining hardware. Honestly have you been over there? Its like every company is manned by and army of cloned Marks its horrible. I have been dropping in and out of threads and keeping any eye on some wallet movements, posting what they are doing but honestly feel a bit out of my depth. I'm still learning the basics of block-chain forensics. In short seems like where ever you look if it had been near gox its just splitting all over the place into fresh wallets stopping then splitting again into more fresh wallets. Also been looking into lawyers etc but what I think is really important for all of us right now while we can do nothing but watch the chain is finding ways to protect ourselves from Identity theft. Lets face it gox is a mess and somewhere 0.5 mil of us have KYC docs and if mark cant set up cold storage for btc what kind of protection did he have in place for our docs?
Also trying to find a bridge to the right department out in Japan. I mean our boys here are great in number and picking apart any info they can get their hands on.. how do we get this data to them? As yet not heard of anyone that's got a bridge up...anyone know of one ? every little bit counts, whatever you can do, in whatever capacity, some are looking at this or that, some are taking to him, her, or them, just the analysis of info is also a contribution. Here is some good news for ya: http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/03/11/us-bitcoin-karpeles-idUSBREA2A1VM20140311?feedType=RSS(Reuters) - A U.S. federal judge on Tuesday temporarily froze the U.S. assets of Mt. Gox chief Mark Karpeles and allowed alleged victims of the shuttered bitcoin exchange to demand evidence of what they claim is a massive fraud. The market for the digital currency was rocked last month when Mt. Gox, once the world's largest bitcoin exchange, ceased operations, and soon after filed for bankruptcy. Mt. Gox said it may have lost 750,000 bitcoins, worth hundreds of millions of dollars, in a hacking attack. The freeze on Karpeles' assets, issued by Judge Gary Feinerman in Chicago, also applies to Mt. Gox's U.S. affiliate and the Japanese parent company, Tibanne, according to Christopher Dore, an Edelson attorney who represents U.S. customers of the bitcoin exchange. The judge's order did not apply to the Tokyo-based Mt. Gox KK, which was shielded from litigation after it filed for bankruptcy protection in Japan and the United States. Mt. Gox suspended withdrawals on February 7, leaving customers unable to recover their funds. In a bankruptcy hearing on Monday, parties suing Mt. Gox said there are growing concerns that Karpeles moved millions of dollars of bitcoins in recent days based on information gleaned from the Internet.Dore represents Gregory Greene, an Illinois resident, who brought a proposed class action over what he claims is a massive fraud. Mt. Gox blamed the loss of hundreds of millions of dollars in bitcoins on a flaw in the software algorithm that underlies the digital currency. "The main thing we hope to achieve is to finally see what the web of things that Karpeles has put together over the last few years and to start unwinding it as to where things are and what happened," said Dore. Bitcoin is bought and sold on a peer-to-peer network independent of central control. Its value soared last year, and the total worth of bitcoins minted is now about $7 billion. Investors were warned on Tuesday that the lure of a quick profit trading the volatile currency should not blind them to bitcoin's risk of theft, fraud and significant losses, according to an alert by the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority. Dore said the judge's order freezing Karpeles' assets will expire in 14 days, when the parties return to court to decide if it should be extended. John Murphy, a Baker McKenzie attorney for Mt. Gox KK, the bankrupt company, declined to comment. Dore said the U.S. affiliate, Karpeles and Tibanne were not represented at the hearing. The case is Gregory Greene v Mt. Gox Inc et al, U.S. District Court, Northern District of Illinois, No. 14-01437 (Reporting by Tom Hals in Wilmington, Delaware; editing by Andrew Hay) |
|
|
|
Let's say everyone removes their coins from exchanges, in fact let's remove exchanges from the example altogether, what is the up and down side?
1) all new crypto becomes forever unheard of.
Why? What prevents people from buying and selling without exchanges? localbitcoin.com is a wonderful example of a channel for exchange which is not an exchange, but a non-dealing broker.
Do people stop communicating when facebook goes down? No, they use email or phones or sms or face to face or skype or whatever. Speculators depend on exchanges. Users don't need them.
Speculators don't matter. Users matter.
They are not "prevented" from buying and selling, but the scale of the market in which buying and selling is vastly reduced without it.
Your facebook analogy is way off, a more appropriate one would be if there was no long-distance or regional calling or mail service, that would not stop communications would it, and the answer is no but you can clearly see that global business would take a real beating.
Speculators are users too, why would you break them out of the mix for exchanges but include them in the mix for localbitcoin, 99% of the sellers there are speculators.
2) all cryptocurrencies including btc no longer have 'common' market values, presently there is the bitstamp value, the coinbase value, the btc-e value, and you have various values on localbitcoin. without the exchanges then there are literally thousands of values (none right and none wrong)
That's no worse than today. If you can't arb without excessive friction and risk, there will always be variance in the local bbo. It's a business opportunity for those who do the arb, and thus make the market more efficient. Business opportunities are good for Bitcoin.
Trustworthy business opportunities are good for bitcoin, not untrustworthy businesses3) so now with all of the different values who will get into the business of dealing with btc? if it has no stability or reliability or standard how do you set your prices
There will never be "stability" in bitcoin until it stops growing. So give up on that right now. You set your prices in accordance with your interests under present market conditions. Typically prices will be set in local fiat, and a service provider will lock-in exchange rates for the buyer and seller. Pricing in BTC is relatively rare and usually very dynamic. That wouldn't change in any way.
You can't set your price under "present market conditions" because that implies major markets, not a 1000 unfederated minor markets.
Even worse, you choose to tie or set your btc to local fiat, so if my local fiat is stronger than your local fiat I could buy your local fiat for next to nothing, buy up your btc for next to nothing, then resell the btc for my (big) local fiat. Oh, then I'll tell others that I could do it for them too ... exchange is formed 4) why would you buy any more than you actually need for immediate use?
Because it's a good investment. You don't need an exchange to sell it.
If it can be purchased btc immediately P2P, if the prices are always vastly different one from another, and if I always have the option to use fiat, why INVEST in btc? That is not a "good investment" if anything the good investment is in the fiat that could buy the btc at anytime, that's the stable and reliable standard in the picture. 5) if you only buy what you immediately need, and the quantity of new btc is always increasing, it will result in oversupply of btc
No, because the volume of transactions in BTC is growing faster.
Get out the charts my friend, btc volume average have been going down across the board.
http://www.bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg360ztgSzm1g10zm2g25zvThe answer isn't "NO EXCHANGES", instead it's "MORE GOOD EXCHANGES".
Here we can agree. I am not claiming that exchanges are not useful. I don't think the lack of exchanges would much impact the value, the utility, and hence the price of bitcoin.
Each and every cryptocurrency that I know of wants to be on an exchange, in fact for most of them the more the better. I don't know of one that thinks their currency would fair better NOT being on an exchange. That validation is real and substantial, when it comes from a good exchange it is actually better. |
|
|
|
Having read the entire thread and many other on this subject I have come to a single and irrefutable conclusion and that is I now want to eat some fruitcake.
hahahahaa ... dude, where have you been? I thought for sure you would be one of the main investigators |
|
|
|
hahhahaaa, you do know we are in a thread titled "Down, down, down, down, down ..."? Yes, a troll thread started by an idiot who didn't even know the difficulty goes down when fewer people are mining. You don't need to be a btc genius to recognize a falling btc price, he got that right and that's the one that count. |
|
|
|
Mt.Gox is not the blockchain. It is good for Bitcoin if people remove their coins from exchanges. It is only bad for speculators. The counter-party risk inherent in current exchanges does not in any way detract from the value of Bitcoin or the Bitcoin blockchain, which is quite secure.
Let's say everyone removes their coins from exchanges, in fact let's remove exchanges from the example altogether, what is the up and down side? 1) all new crypto becomes forever unheard of. 2) all cryptocurrencies including btc no longer have 'common' market values, presently there is the bitstamp value, the coinbase value, the btc-e value, and you have various values on localbitcoin. without the exchanges then there are literally thousands of values (none right and none wrong) 3) so now with all of the different values who will get into the business of dealing with btc? if it has no stability or reliability or standard how do you set your prices 4) why would you buy any more than you actually need for immediate use? 5) if you only buy what you immediately need, and the quantity of new btc is always increasing, it will result in oversupply of btc The only reason btc scaled to where it is now is because of the exchanges, if they are removed or can't be trusted to operate properly, the whole btc community suffers. The answer isn't "NO EXCHANGES", instead it's "MORE GOOD EXCHANGES". |
|
|
|
btc will most likely be about 1000$ in the mid or end of April so hope for the best and fingers crossed !!
any reason why. I have a theory as to why all coins will spike mid april or possibly a little before or after. just like to hear your reason first. Then I can drop my wisdom and if correct maybe I can start another one of those {pay for advice} things  lol. you see that 'finger's crossed' thing, that's his reason it's called hope, wish, and/or prayer, it's obvious what's your reasoning, hopefully it has some foundation in logic Sorry mate you just seem to be another contrarian who has nothing better to do than to tell people they're wrong on an internet forum, otherwise it's hard for you to feel like the smartest person in the room. I've so far not seen any convincing evidence from your part. Speculation is speculation, whether you're hoping for btc prices to drop, or rise, it's not in the hands of you to decide. Time will tell, not some random guy on a forum. Peace. hahhahaaa, you do know we are in a thread titled "Down, down, down, down, down ..."? I support the OP with evidence and logical speculation for the future, and you call ME the contrarian? hahahahahahahaa Yes, speculation is speculation however guessing is not speculation, nor is hope speculation; An educated guess is not simply a guess, and critical thinking is not ordinary thinking, the vital difference with both is some logical consideration of relevant information. |
|
|
|
En esto tiene razón. Es un tema importante y ha hecho el esfuerzo de traducirlo. No nos pongamos tikis mikis.
¿Qué esfuerzo? ¿Copypastear de google translate? Eso no es ningún esfuerzo! Vamos, ni siquiera hizo el esfuerzo de escribir bien en primer lugar, ni de revisar el texto a continuación para cambiar, por ejemplo, "Monte" por "Mt". Bah. If you have lost money in the Mt Gox debacle we invite you to help find the money and the thieves, so that bitcoin could succeed. Many large thiefs have occurred and gone unresolved, we are investigating the mt gox issue with many resources, especially the blockchain to follow the money. we believe that the money trail will lead us to the thief and / or thieves. We need your help to collect information, share opinions, and exam the blockchain, those who can write code should write a program that could give us the ability to track payment addresses https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=492776.msg5628008I tried to use google translator, it translated poorly, but far better than I could have. Tens of thousands of people lost money, BTC and or fiat, bitcoin rates, and volumes are down because the btc system is no longer as trustworthy as most thought. If no one uses exchanges, and if everyone keeps their btc in cold storage it will be safe, however that won't stop the value of them from falling. The prices are falling because people can't trust the major systems (exchanges) to do what they promised to do. If you want bitcoin to survive we must either find the money, or fundamentally change the way exchanges operate, or both. Media hype only temporary increases rates, rates will go back down after the happy bounce, hype cannot replace 'good faith' real change and real accountability is necessary to restore the trust that is necessary to make btc work properly. If nothing happens you will certainly see the value of bitcoin to continue to reduce until there is nothing left. dserrano5 While the metaphorical Bitcoin house is burning down you want to make sure that each fireman has his hat on straight, get out of the way and allow those who want to help others to do so. This isn't a trivial matter over a half a billion dollars are gone, and over $4 billion worth of market capitalization has receded as a direct result of the Mt Gox madness, but you rather focus on "google translator", "copy / paste", and the spelling of the word "theif" ... how does that make sense to you? |
|
|
|
please take the time and space to elaborate |
|
|
|
Just by the evidence I see on this one thread so far I have already determined that it was EXTREMELY easy for Mt Gox to have GIVEN IN to the enormous temptation to steal the funds from himself. He saw so many scams, he saw it go uncorrected, and unpunished for years. He clearly wrestled with the good and bad thoughts for quite some time, but probably found himself siding with bad more often than good. It's very likely that this was his wacky retirement plan since the last time he screwed the community.
But here's the thing, now that a half billion is gone, the system is lined up for BTC-e to be next, and to take it to a higher level. But unless they do it within the next few months it will likely be no more btc because the market is shrinking down to nothing.
Who would think $800+ would be the high for 2014 when in 2013 projections were $50K+ btc for 2014?
The system simply cannot tolerate any more mass blunders or plunders, that's why the money must be found AND the exchanges must initiate massive change.
I agree with your salient analysis, but would also add this bit: BTC-e isn't the same because they have other crypto, I mean, I have very little BTC there but I do have a few LTC there. So your comparison does bear a bit more discussion, but I am not worried about btc-e because their product is and was far superior to Gox imo. I never used Gox but a tiny bit, never verified. But I do use BTC-e and I have no problem with them. But your point is valid, how much outright theft (even if by the holy FBI themslefes) can a blockchain bear? Oh well, even if BTC goes south I have divested into other blockchains as well, I believe in cryptocoin so really it is just a question of where the money flows. I wouldn't be surprised also, if the BTC blockchain is suddenly managed by better people. I suspect they might fight to bring back SR? I myself felt that BTC was synonymous with freedom but also there needs to be a self-policing factor, like what they tried to do by hahaha supposedly threatening some dude's life. Well, that's kinda okay if it was the dude who stole 800k coins from Gox, let that asshole be cut down slowly. But also the self policing is NOT transparent, so it is like SR = freedom = black market money ...And now that's not only over, but the gag orders and lawyer-feast is causing all coins to be snatched up or captured by law enforcement actors. I don't agree that this was his retirement plan, lol. He'd have to be as stupid as fuck to think that. I think he is acting like a captured pawn, totally unafraid so long as he obeys the cops who hold his nutsack. Just like Sabu who got turned right around and used like a little bitch and then what? I appreciate how you pointed out that he would have been able to watch the previous fiascos and think to himself, "Hmmm..." Haha, you really described that to a t. It is possible, but I just think he's being weak and cooperating with the strength and the strength is the FBI prosecuting what they call "The Holy Drug War of Earth 21st Century". They have the power to snatch up another 1 million bitcoins in a similar way. I bet in the end it might be tremendously profitable for some clever rogue agent or lawyer or gangster. Yes my friend, you make great points about how crime goes unpunished on this world. It sure does. My friend when btc catches a cold, litecoin get's pneumonia, most other coins are either dead or on life-support. Trust is what enables the protocol to scale, without the trust mechanism only a few tech-heads around the world will use the protocol, via P2P, OT, and the like. None of that is worth VC money, or attractive to associated service companies ... long story short, if the system wasn't created with built-in trust, isn't reinforced by trust, or trust cannot be guaranteed then it will never scale. The BTC community, and by extension the whole cryptocurrency industry must prove that trust reasonably exists within the btc system for it to survive. If done right, the cryptocurrency industry can produce TRILLIONAIRES not just millionaires, or billionaires. |
|
|
|
确实应该把受害者召集起来一起维权
do whatever you can to secure justice for the bitcoin community |
|
|
|
btc will most likely be about 1000$ in the mid or end of April so hope for the best and fingers crossed !!
any reason why. I have a theory as to why all coins will spike mid april or possibly a little before or after. just like to hear your reason first. Then I can drop my wisdom and if correct maybe I can start another one of those {pay for advice} things lol. you see that 'finger's crossed' thing, that's his reason it's called hope, wish, and/or prayer, it's obvious what's your reasoning, hopefully it has some foundation in logic |
|
|
|
coinjoin and or any other company that is found to be complicit in any activity to defraud the bitcoin community will be subject to both the community and or various authorities
in the case of mixers if you can determine that any such funds have entered such mixer it shall be sufficient evidence to hold such mixer up for public condemnation.
The fight against money laundering goes on on all fronts. Call it what you will, but there will always be tumblers and laundromats to wash the shit from people's undies haha. Washing out blood and shit from clothing actually has made fortunes. All laundries serve good purpose, because they do not ask where blood or shit comes from.  but you are right man, screw the coin thieves, they aren't like pizzarias and chinese restaurants laundering cash, this is way way worse. And yet, the fact that the FBI has locked up 10% of bitcoin without much ado, means coin tumbling will remain a viable defense for anyone who sees the FBI for what it is: A non Constitutional entity which has no business stealing the world's wallets. So, until the FBI stands up and become responsible for their thefts, and also the fraud of the drug war be repudiated, then maybe regular people can feel safe, but not today. So, tumblers are still good and I want them to work, not because I am a dogshit coinstealing thief, but because I would rather let the thief get away and protect the 100 innocents who he doesn't care about, and whose coins also get robbed/locked away. So, it is complicated but yes my coinbrother, speak your rage and solutions, the audience is listening. Just by the evidence I see on this one thread so far I have already determined that it was EXTREMELY easy for Mt Gox to have GIVEN IN to the enormous temptation to steal the funds from himself. He saw so many scams, he saw it go uncorrected, and unpunished for years. He clearly wrestled with the good and bad thoughts for quite some time, but probably found himself siding with bad more often than good. It's very likely that this was his wacky retirement plan since the last time he screwed the community. But here's the thing, now that a half billion is gone, the system is lined up for BTC-e to be next, and to take it to a higher level. But unless they do it within the next few months it will likely be no more btc because the market is shrinking down to nothing. Who would think $800+ would be the high for 2014 when in 2013 projections were $50K+ btc for 2014? The system simply cannot tolerate any more mass blunders or plunders, that's why the money must be found AND the exchanges must initiate massive change. |
|
|
|
There's a rumor that the remaining Gox coins are being anonymized, possibly using CoinJoin. Anyone can confirm this?
coinjoin and or any other company that is found to be complicit in any activity to defraud the bitcoin community will be subject to both the community and or various authorities in the case of mixers if you can determine that any such funds have entered such mixer it shall be sufficient evidence to hold such mixer up for public condemnation. coinjoin is not a company, but a type of bitcoin transfer. You can do that without any company cooperating https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279249.0thanks for the correction, given what I read about coinjoin at: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=279249.0 such action simply provides additional corroborating documentation |
|
|
|
没有安全的平台，去中心化交易是未来的方向
there is no future if the current road is erased |
|
|
|
There's a rumor that the remaining Gox coins are being anonymized, possibly using CoinJoin. Anyone can confirm this?
coinjoin and or any other company that is found to be complicit in any activity to defraud the bitcoin community will be subject to both the community and or various authorities in the case of mixers if you can determine that any such funds have entered such mixer it shall be sufficient evidence to hold such mixer up for public condemnation. |
|
|
|
If you have lost money in the Mt Gox debacle we invite you to help find the money and the thieves, so that bitcoin could succeed. Many large thiefs have occurred and gone unresolved, we are investigating the mt gox issue with many resources, especially the blockchain to follow the money. we believe that the money trail will lead us to the thief and / or thieves. We need your help to collect information, share opinions, and exam the blockchain, those who can write code should write a program that could give us the ability to track payment addresses https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=492776.msg5628008I tried to use google translator, it translated poorly, but far better than I could have. Tens of thousands of people lost money, BTC and or fiat, bitcoin rates, and volumes are down because the btc system is no longer as trustworthy as most thought. If no one uses exchanges, and if everyone keeps their btc in cold storage it will be safe, however that won't stop the value of them from falling. The prices are falling because people can't trust the major systems (exchanges) to do what they promised to do. If you want bitcoin to survive we must either find the money, or fundamentally change the way exchanges operate, or both. Media hype only temporary increases rates, rates will go back down after the happy bounce, hype cannot replace 'good faith' real change and real accountability is necessary to restore the trust that is necessary to make btc work properly. If nothing happens you will certainly see the value of bitcoin to continue to reduce until there is nothing left. |
|
|
|
If you have lost money in the Mt Gox debacle we invite you to help find the money and the thieves, so that bitcoin could succeed. Many large thiefs have occurred and gone unresolved, we are investigating the mt gox issue with many resources, especially the blockchain to follow the money. we believe that the money trail will lead us to the thief and / or thieves. We need your help to collect information, share opinions, and exam the blockchain, those who can write code should write a program that could give us the ability to track payment addresses https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=492776.msg5628008I tried to use google translator, it translated poorly, but far better than I could have. Tens of thousands of people lost money, BTC and or fiat, bitcoin rates, and volumes are down because the btc system is no longer as trustworthy as most thought. If no one uses exchanges, and if everyone keeps their btc in cold storage it will be safe, however that won't stop the value of them from falling. The prices are falling because people can't trust the major systems (exchanges) to do what they promised to do. If you want bitcoin to survive we must either find the money, or fundamentally change the way exchanges operate, or both. Media hype only temporary increases rates, rates will go back down after the happy bounce, hype cannot replace 'good faith' real change and real accountability is necessary to restore the trust that is necessary to make btc work properly. If nothing happens you will certainly see the value of bitcoin to continue to reduce until there is nothing left. |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
