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21  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Idena is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain on: November 04, 2019, 02:56:01 PM
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OK so I'm an official Idena newbie now, one epoch old  Cheesy
Must say that initial process is quite fun and not all that hard to grasp.
I have this one concern though; what happens if some douchebag starts to create completely nonsensical captchas, on purpose of course? Is there any fail safe against this? Would be a shame if someone was surprised by impossible captcha from the day one.

The correct answers are not predefined. There is no concensus in solving such senseless captchas, they are not qualified and thus excluded from the validation score. https://idena.io/?view=faq#faq-flip-creation-4


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Actually, that is one major problem that I am seeing here. Along the way, users will get tired of validating themselves and waiting for the exact time of this session. They might forgot later on that they have this app running and check for the next validating session. Sorry, but I think this is not a sustainable approach to retain your users. Let us see how many users  will continue to support this after 6 months of using this app.

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It also seems to me that such verification will bother users. Moreover, there is a human fact where you can forget about the verification or not be near the computer in time.But I’m still interested in what will come of it and I will participate.

The time between validations is a function of the network size. The bigger the network the less frequent validations. Will a validation once in three months be too much? Some people will be always more motivated than others to spend their time validating themselves and mining. Participants' motivation will also grow with the growth of the Idena coin valuation.
22  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Idena is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain on: October 29, 2019, 01:58:53 PM
So you mine coins by watching ads and solving captchas?
No, you don't have to watch ads to mine the coins.
Watching ads is the possible way to bring demand for the coin into the Sybil protected network.

And why would you democratize earnings by burning coins from advertisers rather than paying them to consumers of ads?

Unfortunately it might not work. There is no way to prove the ads consumtion without establishing a trust. People may click ads without intention to consume it. Advertizer may also decline to pay for the ads consumption.
23  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: IDENA.IO - Anonymous Blockchain Identity - Solutions for data protection. on: October 28, 2019, 08:52:38 PM
Very nice project, I will try it.

Let me know if invitation code is needed
24  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Idena is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain on: October 28, 2019, 05:35:09 PM
-snip-
2. Learn how to create flips. Don't forget to create three fips  before the next validation in advance. Schedule your next validation.
There's an error in the OP, I guess it should be flips  Roll Eyes just saying.
Looks quite interesting, I think I will try this out, can have my invite code PM'ed here?
Are those invite codes, the only method for keeping nodes unique or the system is also looking at IP addresses, stuff like that?

Invitation code sent. Please check your PM.
Invitation code itself doesn’t make your node unique. It allows you to take part in the online validation party.
If you manage to solve flips in time your node becomes validated as unique.



i am proud that i finally found the time to make it three times in a row to the validation time window without beeing terminated Wink 
Congrats!!

Sounds good, but... - how can you be sure that those new PoP-Accounts dont concentrate all in the same fabric halls in china again?  Or - more likely when it comes to cost of human work - this time in nigeria or other countries known for their strong "airdrop mafia", monopolizing multiple accounts which are keeped alive by random third world workers from the street?
Those kind of bad actors allready seem to have killed mannabase.com (a centralized so called cryptoubi-project of 2016/2017, lacking sybil restistance) with thousands of fake-accounts, even while mannabase was worth nearly nothing on fiat exchange.

Bitcoin has a strong economic incentive to concentrate mining in the areas with cheap electricity. This makes other players leave.
Essentially there is no equal access to mining. The fact is the mining is the closed club both for PoW and PoS.

In contrast PoP allows for the equal access to minining.
Nothing else is needed to prove your humanness and uniqness.

You're right, there is no way to fight against fabric halls in China. But good news is the bad actors can only grow extensively. They have to coordinate more and more workers at the same place at the same time. Coordination costs might grow nonlineral.

Ubic.network has different interesting approach to avoid sybil attacks, using proof of e-passport and thereby proof of nationality - maybe you could distribute your idena-PoP more globaly, using something like UBIC as an optional second layer?

Crypto UBI is one of the possible use cases for Idena since the list of validated participants is shared on the blockchain.
Any centralized service can use it for its purposes.




Is there anything the mined coins can be used for? What's the economy behind the coin? Why should anyone actually *use* Idena?

Idena democritizes mining: any person on the planet (who able to solve flips) can mine the coins.

But what is the economy behind the coin?

Consider the use case of Sybil-protected maketing on the blockchain
1. Assume that Idena participants voluntarily agree to consume ads published on the blockchain by an advertiser.
2. However such an advertiser has to burn coins in order to reach a certain group of users attention.
3. Burnt coins are removed from the total supply. Thus multiple advertisers competing with each others will always have a shortage of coins.
4. Due to that assumption the newly minted coins which are equaly distributed amoung the people and can be sold to advertisers.
25  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Idena is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain on: October 28, 2019, 04:37:55 AM
i been trying to get validated for a week+, never seems to work and just eats way too much bandwidth sitting open fully synced
im just gonna uninstall this,

Did you try to use lowpower parameter to run the node? This should help for you:
https://idena.io/?view=guide#guide-issues-1

i cant just sit and watch a wallet 24 hours a day for a captcha to pop up

You can close the wallet if you don't want to mine the coins all the time.
You need to appear online at the certain time and solve 5 flips in less than 2 minutes to validate yourself.
Just make sure your node is fully synchronized right before the validation.

someone sent me an invite code, why is that not enough?
you guys really should have thought this through...

No, unfortunately that's not enough. The invitation itself can not guarantee that one person has only one address.
If someone can send you multiple invitations then you can have multiple accounts. Then you can issue more invitations for yourself and thus grow millions of fake accounts.

Just look at the facebook struggling with billions of fake accounts:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2019/05/24/facebook-deleted-more-than-2-billion-fake-accounts-in-the-first-quarter-of-the-year-infographic/#7efd1f767e30


 






USE CASE is necessary. You are at the point of a truly fair distribution IF this ends up working, but even if successful at distribution of coins, and keeping the network running, what is it all for?

What am I missing here??

Idena blockchain formalizes people so there might be use cases that we can not anticipate yet. But there are some issues that hopefully POP may address:
1. Fair voting and the governance. The hardest issue in the blockchain space is how to establish democratic decision making.
2. Concentration issue. There are 3 mining pools conrtol 51% of the Bitcoin hashrate. Bitcoin mining is concentrated in one area. 80% of the hashrate is located in China. Ethereum PoS will not change the game. The initial wealth of is in few hands. 70% of ETH was premined. 53% of ETH owned by 400 wallets.
3. Blockchain scalability issue. Running multiple shard-chains is not safe when the stake is concentrated.






Validation is starting. Get ready!



Validation report is available

85 identities are validated: https://scan.idena.io/validation?epoch=16

192 flips where created before the validation: https://scan.idena.io/validation?epoch=16#flips
- 180 flips are qualified
- 7 flips did not reach consensus about the right answer and were disqualified
- 5 flips reached a weak consensus about the right answer

Validation rewards paid to participants: https://scan.idena.io/rewards?epoch=16
26  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Idena is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain on: October 27, 2019, 09:55:38 PM
Can you release a deb package for your Linux client? Looks like I have to compile it myself which I have to go all the stuff again that i completely forgotten how to find its dependencies but  I am interested to run a node with my old machine, maybe I can make this run the whole time while it still lives.

Sorry, we don't release builds of Idena Client for the Linux yet.
In order to build the client from source code you'd need the following:
1. install npm
2. get the source code from the github release
3. npm install
4. npm run start

How much coins can we mine a day being a node?

There are 51,840 DNA coins are minted per day maximum. 50% is mined while producing the blocks. The rest of the coins are minted during validation sessions. The coins are distributed between all validated participants.
https://idena.io/?view=faq#faq-economy-2



It is also possible that thousands/millions of sophisticated AI will be used to solve captcha?

Hopefully this will answer the question:
https://medium.com/idena/ai-resistant-captchas-are-they-really-possible-760ac5065bae



Announcement
Please doublecheck the time of next validation in Idena app
If you had the clocks change to the winter time this weekend in your country then the validation time for you will be shifted for 1 hour

The validation time is always fixed at 13:30 UTC
Idena app displays the proper validation time for your local time zone


Idena Node version 0.13.2 is available
Changes:
- Validation session critical bug fix (false late submission)
The update is highly recommended for the successful validation:
https://idena.io/?view=download

27  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Idena is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain on: October 25, 2019, 02:53:10 PM
Don't you think that single individual could run multiple idena nodes in order to cheat or something? This is a potential problem... you think it doesn't matter or has it been solve?

Will download the node later and see how the whole thing works. I already bookmarked your site.
This looks very interesting.

Individual must validate themself in order to mine coins.

The uniqueness of participants is proven by the fact that they must solve and provide the answers for flip-puzzles synchronously. A single person is not able to validate herself multiple times because of the very limited timeframe for the submission of the answers.

https://idena.io/?view=faq#faq-pop-1




Yes, I have downloaded it but I did not see the progress bar on the client. It is normal? my network speed is 10 Mbps.
I am currently at blocks 405121 and it stopped. What should I do next?
do you have a video tutorial or something like that to help us run the node?

Please check PM
28  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Idena is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain on: October 24, 2019, 04:06:34 PM

You should have told us in the first place, I thought something wrong happened with my computer. How long it will take?
I have waited for 15 minutes and it kept showing 90%+

It depends on your computer and the network speed. You can see the synchronization progress in the Idena Client user interface. Did you downloaded it?


Can I download the blockchain locally and then move the data to VPS and using it?

Yes you can move the full copy of the /datadir/ folder which is created in the same directory where the node is located.
29  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Idena is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain on: October 24, 2019, 02:03:53 PM
If I may ask, does the mining require an actively powered laptop? What if I put bit off, will hit continue to mine?
The reason I asked this is that, that is the major problem I have in my location.

Once you're successfully validated you can activate the mining mode for your address. Then your node has to stay online synchronized in order to mine coins.
Otherwise if your node comes offline for more than 1 hour penalties are charged. You can deactivate the mining mode at anytime and enjoy the validation rewards only.



The validation session is finished.

Total 75 identities are validated. The validation report:
https://scan.idena.io/validation?epoch=15

Validation rewards paid:
https://scan.idena.io/rewards?epoch=15
30  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: IDENA.IO - Anonymous Blockchain Identity - Solutions for data protection. on: October 24, 2019, 12:55:30 PM
Validation starts in 35 minutes
31  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Idena is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain on: October 24, 2019, 11:08:20 AM
I have downloaded the wallet and running it on my computer.
this is not fine at all, my disk is running for 90%-95% when I am running the node. It makes my computer very slow, and hard to use.

The slow disks might be loaded if you run the node for first time. It takes some to to synrchonize the blockchain data at the beginning.
You can see the if the node is synrchonized in the Idena Client user interface.

I do not think it is possible to run the node on VPS too because my account will be suspended if I am running it on my VPS, it requires 90% of the disk to run the node.

Many Idena participants are running their nodes on VPS. There were no issues with VPS performance until now.




A very original way to protect the network from fraudsters. If I understand correctly, the scammers will have to have one laptop for each account at the time of verification and several pairs of hands, depending on how many accounts they have registered. To organize such a very problematic, which makes your solution in the fight against multi-accounts very workable, I'm delighted. 
Yes, that's correct.



The next validation party starts in one hour and a half.
Invitations can be requested here.



Get ready! Validation starts in 30 minutes



Staring now!
32  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: IDENA.IO - Anonymous Blockchain Identity - Solutions for data protection. on: October 24, 2019, 09:49:22 AM
Validation starts in less than 4 hours

Make sure you have 'Wait for validation' status displayed in app.
Otherwise please submit 3 flips or activate the invitation code.
33  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Idena is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain on: October 24, 2019, 09:26:18 AM

Do you have any idea how many nodes are currently running right now?


There are 58 mining nodes running at the moment out of the total 75 validated addresses:
https://scan.idena.io/#miners


and what is the basic hardware requirement running the node?
I have a PC right now with 8 Gb ram and I am using this computer for 12 hours/day, I would like to run one of the nodes if it is possible using my personal computer.



That's fine for running the Idena node.

34  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Idena is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain on: October 24, 2019, 08:39:34 AM
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I just feel curious what should be the main role of your token if you are not using your own consensus that puts human verification at the top of the things?

These days so many projects are forgetting to put the token as the main role of platforms. In POS, the owner of the token gets more benefits because it can use its token to earn even more.

When i have minted your coin and passed the validation session and i have proven if im a unique human and then after that i owned some coins and have you planned something good with your coin?

The utility should be on the top of the feature that must available on your token. Your consensus doesn't mean a lot if you are not putting utility usage for your token, right? 


Idena blockchain formalizes people so there might be use cases that we can not anticipate yet. E.g. onchain marketing: Idena participants voluntarily agree to consume ads published by a valid address which burns coins. Then advertisers have to compete for burning more coins in order to reach a certain group of users attention. Burnt coins are removed from the total supply. This  means that all newly mined coins equaly distributed amoung the variety of people can be sold to advertisers who will have shortage of coins.



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See I was not wrong before, we need to work as a captcha solver in order to get validated, you should have made a full post of explanation about this project.
I am interested in becoming a node but the process confuses me, there is no clear minimum required hardware needed to run the node and there is no clear information about validation time.
You can not just say, you only need a laptop to work with it. There should be a requirement needed like, x Gb of ram or VGA or etc.

I have edited the initial post, now it should be clearer. The next validation time is a function of the network size, it is determined by the algorithm when the validation process is over and the number of valdated participants are known. The next validation time is always displayed on the main website and app page. By the way, today is the validation day.
35  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Idena is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain on: October 23, 2019, 09:31:26 PM
I feel stupid for not getting this but i have to ask. Does this mean that every user needs to be online solving the test at the same time in order to participate? It's the only semi-reasonable answer i am getting from this, even though it doesn't sound plausible or even reasonable. Please tell be i have been mistaken.

It’s correct though might seem weird. Every Idena user on a planet needs to appear online at the same time and solve 5 flips in less than 2 minutes in order to prove their uniqueness. Consider it as a global online party.
36  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Idena is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain on: October 23, 2019, 04:24:50 PM
What does it mean in general? For POS coins you need to hold an amount of tokens to be eligible for rewards, for POW coins, you need to have a mining software and what do you mean by human mining from your laptop?

In order to mine, you have to prove you are a unique human during the validation session. Once your address is validated as a unique human, you can mine coins during the subsequent epoch. Mining requres neither stake nor mining hardware. It's based on the BFT consensus.



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ITs said above that person can be a node by solving captcha. Interesting concept actually but then the decentralization is going to be questioned. It doesn't really matter if a person has multiple accounts as long as this other account can be a node still. When someone has the right to exclude you, its not going to look good.

Identity validation means KYC?

No KYC. No personal data. No trusted verifiers. Proof of person is based on the Turing test running at the same time for all participants in the network.

Invitations are needed to minimize the probability of a Sybil attack.
https://idena.io/?view=invitation#

37  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Idena is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain on: October 23, 2019, 03:49:06 PM
There is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain. No money for stake or equipment needed, just an average laptop.
You can easily join mining of the first human-centric cryptocurrency at idena.io and share your opinion.

It seems like a very unique idea. But what's the utility of this blockchain in real world?

Also I understand a turing code needs to be solved to work as a node in idena network and I also understand that the frequency of solving turing code will reduce as the network grows. What's the current frequency?

Also i see that it is not completely decentralized. Because if I am inviting someone, I will retain the full right to expel that person from the network. Any specific reason for that?

Idena is a strong bot protection: one person can not have multiple accounts, because the validation session starts at the same time globally. Useful for many projects that cannot be realized otherwise: true anonymous authentication, privacy-preserving Sybil-protected governance and fair voting for online communities and DAOs, global universal basic income initiatives, Sybil-protected marketing.

The current validation frequency is once in 4 days.

The person who invites you can terminate your identity only before your status is "Verfied", after the third validation it is no longer possible. This is done to prevent participants from buying and selling invitations and to encourage healthy network growth. When you are invited by your friend you will not be expelled.



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Well, you did not mention it on the website that was why I said solving the puzzle or captcha is tedious work.
You should have at least said about validating once every 3 months on the website, and I still do not understand the function of the laptop in the minting process.

We mention that in the FAQ section:
https://idena.io/?view=faq#faq-validation-1

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did not explain the process of minting using the hardware.

You need to run the node on your computer or laptop in order to produce blocks and vote for the block proposals.
https://idena.io/?view=technology
38  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Idena is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain on: October 23, 2019, 02:36:55 PM
There is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain. No money for stake or equipment needed, just an average laptop.
You can easily join mining of the first human-centric cryptocurrency at idena.io and share your opinion.

Are you part of the team? seeing your username ends with idena. what makes it better for proof-of-person than the current pow and pos? please share more details and your own experience about your proof-of-person blockchain.

Yes, I contribute to the project.
Why not pow and pos? They both are based on capital. Larger players enjoy economy of scale and adopt anti-competitive practices. Smaller players vanish.

Is there any alternative basis that is not as concentrated as capital? It seems that human personhood is the most evenly distributed and scarce resource on Earth.



I have read this new proof of person on https://idena.io/, to put it simply we need to do a puzzle or captcha if we want to work as a node.
every single node is equivalent to one person, but this is tedious work for human to keep solving the puzzle. I do not think this new consensus will work out, this is not effective and efficient.

The validations will be less often as the network grows. Will validating once in 3 month be too much work?
39  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Idena is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain on: October 22, 2019, 05:07:25 AM
There is the first Proof-of-Person Blockchain. No money for stake or equipment needed, just an average laptop.
You can easily join mining of the first human-centric cryptocurrency at idena.io and share your opinion.

Where to start?
1. Visit the website idena.io to learn more about Idena.
2. Download and install the Idena Node and Idena Client executable files at  https://idena.io/?view=download or build them from source at https://github.com/idena-network.
3. Subscribe to the Idena Announcements channel at https://t.me/IdenaAnnouncements to follow updates.
4. Join the Idena Telegram chat https://t.me/IdenaNetworkPublic and follow the instructions in the pinned message.
5. Make sure your node is synchronized, and activate the invitation code. Check your identity status; it should be "Candidate". The invitation can not be activated in last 5 minutes before the validation.
6. Learn how to solve flips: read the article in our blog  https://medium.com/idena/how-to-prove-your-identity-anonymously-919bdfe5249a and test yourself https://flips.idena.io/?pass=idena.io

How to get validated?
1. Check the next validation time in the Idena app or at the website.
2. Your node must be fully synchronized before the session starts.
3. Your computer time must be synchronized with the internet time.
4. Solve the flips during the validation session. Be agile. The first 6 flips must be submitted in less than 2 minutes.

What's next?
1. Once your identity is validated, keep your node up and running in order to mine coins.
2. Learn how to create flips. Don't forget to create three fips  before the next validation in advance. Schedule your next validation.
40  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: IDENA.IO - Anonymous Blockchain Identity - Solutions for data protection. on: October 21, 2019, 08:05:15 PM
Plans on making it possible to take part in a validation on mobile?

We're exploring possibilities of running the node on a mobile
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