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21  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: April 15, 2014, 07:57:06 AM
Cross post from my reply at the official forums https://forums.counterparty.co/index.php/topic,150.msg1387.html#msg1387 regarding a hierarchy for utility and for controlling asset issuance costs:

[...]


Did this great idea ever gain traction?

I seem to remember it was suggested around the time that the OP_RETURN saga kicked off.

I think that we agreed that such a scheme would be better handled at the UI level.

[...]

b) Tiered pricing based upon the long description cannot be performed as the protocol is agnostic to the description.


Thanks led_lcd - pity, tiered pricing would make some interesting possibilities economical. Maybe the devs would we willing to revisit this in the future.
22  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: April 14, 2014, 01:49:08 PM
Cross post from my reply at the official forums https://forums.counterparty.co/index.php/topic,150.msg1387.html#msg1387 regarding a hierarchy for utility and for controlling asset issuance costs:

When I suggested the hierarchy, I didn't give any thought about implementation. It seems people like the idea and I think there is a utility to this idea so here's an implementation idea which is pretty simple but enables pretty much what people are talking about.

Indeed by itself it would be too much of a code change. The asset names are coded as they are in many different tables and having long asset names would cause problems with the limited space we are working with a Bitcoin transaction.

So here is what I suggest to be a simple solution which is backwards compatible and forwards compatible with more adaptations to the price for issuing assets:

There are only two levels of assets distinguished at the protocol level. More than the second level is merely a client side visualization.

1) Add an additional column to the 'issuances' table called 'assetLongName'
2) Add an optional parameter to issuance --asset-long-name
3) A 'top level' is an asset which must have the asset name = asset long name (this can default if no asset-long-name is entered)
4) A 'top level' asset must conform to existing naming conventions
5) An 'lower level' asset is an asset which is only readily distinguishable by the asset-long-name. The asset name (ie the value being used now and passed around in the messages in transactions) cannot be user specified. The asset short name is generated at #6
6) When issuing a 'lower level' asset, the issuer cannot specify the asset name. The short asset name is generated from a hash of the asset-long-name (something like this http://stackoverflow.com/questions/548158/fixed-length-numeric-hash-code-from-variable-length-string-in-c-sharp)
7) When issuing a 'lower level' asset, in the asset-long-name a 'top level' asset name must already exist before the first period '.' in the string (left to right) .

Notes:
* Top level assets are premium priced - for example 5 XCP
* Lower level assets are priced enough to stop spamming of the network - for example 0.1 XCP
* Pricing can be replaced with proof of stake or whatever later
* By default clients can filter top level assets by only getting assets where the short name = long name
* In the long name for lower level assets, after the first period '.' most characters plus a few special characters like GLaDOS mentioned goes. It is up to the clients to fold up the names in a tree structure and organise it nicely. Clients can use lazy loading of tree structures to reduce overhead.
* All internal counterpartyd code continues to stay referencing the existing short name so it will limit recode
* It would then require some rework to allow commands such as 'order' 'send' to be able to reference the asset long name. However, this is not a #1 priority as the short asset name could be used in the interim.
* There is a limited space available for unique (short) asset names  so there will be some collisions with the hashing of the long name. If the hash is already taken, too bad you will need to vary the long name a little bit. That's the consequence of buying a lower level asset name
* Including a unique index on the asset-long-name column of the issuances table should be sufficient to maintain performance on this table

EDIT:
Some examples to show what I'm talking about.

Code:
Asset Short name    Long name                    
BITT                BITT                         
KEOdAi3q            BITT.spanish.dubloon         
OIu3waqn            BITT.spanish.dubloon#1       
RPGGAME             RPGGAME
LPJhiowG            RPGGAME.ruby.cracked
jrOyehHG            RPGGAME.ruby.perfect
BANK                BANK
OIJFE7ig            BANK.I can type whatever I like


Client visualization
Code:
BITT
 +-spanish
         +-dubloon
         +-dubloon#1
RPGGAME
 +-ruby
      +-cracked
      +-perfect
BANK
 +-I can type whatever I like
     
Client visualization alternative - reflects the reality that there is only 2 levels
Code:
BITT
 +-spanish.dubloon
 +-spanish.dubloon#1

RPGGAME
 +-ruby.cracked
 +-ruby.perfect

BANK
 +-I can type whatever I like

Did this great idea ever gain traction?

I seem to remember it was suggested around the time that the OP_RETURN saga kicked off.
23  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN] Cloud mine Bitcoin from your Counterparty wallet! on: April 14, 2014, 06:16:07 AM
Crossposted from https://forums.counterparty.co/index.php?topic=249

I'm proud to announce the immediate launch of the Spolcyc Mining Experiment for Gigahashes (SMEG). SMEG is demonstration of the super awesome-ness of Counterparty and what can be set up over a cup of orange juice. My friends and I had a few spare ASICs lying around. I decided I might as well do something interesting with them and here it is.


We at BitcoinTangibleTrust vouch for led_lcd he supported us with our initial launch and has shown that he is willing to help Counterparty applications and features succeed.

We look forward to supporting this experiment because he not only supported our launch, but he is ridiculously smart and is a Counterparty member to watch carefully.

Go led_lcd!
Make it rain GIGAHASHES!

I'd like to echo this. led_lcd has been extremely generous, both with his time and expertise, in helping me to refine my ideas for building a ratings agency on top of Counterparty. Brilliant guy.
24  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: April 11, 2014, 11:47:41 AM
This is interesting!

"To address the dearth of nodes in the Bitcoin network, the Counterparty Team will be launching the Nodeshares initiative. Nodeshares is a
non-profit that collects donations for the setup and maintenance of full bitcoin nodes."


<snip>

"To kick-start the Nodeshares initiative, Counterparty will be donating 100 full nodes to Nodeshares, which is approximately 1.1% of the total nodes in the Bitcoin network. For comparison, Counterparty data currently makes up approximately 0.03% of the data in the blockchain."

https://www.counterparty.co/full-bitcoin-nodes

... and ...

http://nodeshares.com
25  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: April 09, 2014, 12:55:45 PM
So the above says that trading a user defined and user issued asset involves counter party risk (the issuer not keeping his promise to redeem the asset if desired) but the counterparty website claims: "Trade, BTC, XCP and user-created assets with no counterparty risk"  Huh

I think they mean that there's no counterparty risk in the trade itself, as opposed to the issuer risk of holding an asset token that (you hope) is backed by real property.

I have a proposal for a service that might go some way toward mitigating the issuer risk part. I'd love some feedback from you guys if you have a moment.  


 
26  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: April 08, 2014, 09:07:30 AM

Is that the biggest dex order yet ? Man thats promising.

Cool. A big chunk of these are asset issuances too, I think people are taking advantage of the lower fees.
27  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: April 01, 2014, 06:34:39 PM
I feel like that is narrowminded.

You asked for a benefit, I gave you one. I didn't say it was the only consideration.

I think the best way you'll advance this argument is if you can weight the risks and opportunities side by side.
28  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: April 01, 2014, 06:15:32 PM
What possible benefit does it have other than security?

Well, one thing is that it keeps us native to a $6B marketcap currency, enabling people to trade directly with that currency and settle using BTCPay. If we move away, people will need to use BTC tokens backed by an issuer instead, which adds a layer of counterparty risk.
29  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: March 28, 2014, 11:07:18 AM

Congrats on the mention!
30  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: March 27, 2014, 06:13:26 PM
For anyone who is interested in making such a peg, I have come up with a few examples which would show how you do it.

Quote

It's still a good service! And indeed I think that if a trusted exchange (or even a trusted community member) were to implement something like this on Counterparty, it would gain adoption.


Great, maybe you could drop us a link / point us to your examples? Smiley
31  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: March 27, 2014, 05:54:36 PM
Does any sort of collateralization requirement denominated in XCP limit the total amount of assets that can be traded on the exchange to the market cap of XCP? How do you work out the margin requirement? Or is the idea that any asset in one's possession can be used as collateral, but represented as an XCP equivalent?

In a world with XCP backed assets, one way I could imagine this working would be that the current market price of the asset (based on a price feed) would be locked away when the asset was created, and the issuer would place a bet to cover future variations in the price, up to a disclosed bet size, and future date.

An issuer could choose the amount of margin they want to put up, and when they run out, the asset would be automatically liquidated. This would have the side effect of dumpling an asset holder back into XCP if a market got volatile, but I think it could dramatically reduce counterparty risk, and everyone would know were they stood.

When issuing, an issuer would lock away $1 worth of XCP to create the asset, and might choose to commit, say, another 25% to cover variation. So $1.25 worth of XCP might be locked away per USD token. They could sell the token to get $1 of XCP back, so they'd basically be net a long XCP bet.

I can imagine that this kind of usage would increase the scarcity of XCP and push the price up (so in the next round a unit of XCP could back a larger dollar value of assets, and so on).

You cannot eliminate counterparty risk from an asset-backed currency peg, as there is no mechanism at the protocol level to stop the issuer (i.e. the user with the private key of the address with the XCP backing) from withdrawing funds. I still think though that is a really good use-case.

A currency peg that actually requires no trust is making a CFD on the price of an asset to which you would like to peg your holdings in XCP. The effectiveness of the peg, however, depends on one's leverage, which in turn increases one's risk. For anyone who is interested in making such a peg, I have come up with a few examples which would show how you do it.

Thanks cityglut, pity, something like this would have been very cool  Cool
32  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: March 27, 2014, 05:32:39 PM
Does any sort of collateralization requirement denominated in XCP limit the total amount of assets that can be traded on the exchange to the market cap of XCP? How do you work out the margin requirement? Or is the idea that any asset in one's possession can be used as collateral, but represented as an XCP equivalent?

In a world with XCP backed assets, one way I could imagine this working would be that the current market price of the asset (based on a price feed) would be locked away when the asset was created, and the issuer would place a bet to cover future variations in the price, up to a disclosed bet size, and future date.

An issuer could choose the amount of margin they want to put up, and when they run out, the asset would be automatically liquidated. This would have the side effect of dumpling an asset holder back into XCP if a market got volatile, but I think it could dramatically reduce counterparty risk (and everyone would know were they stood).

When issuing a $1 USD token, an issuer would lock away $1 worth of XCP to create the asset, and might choose to commit, say, another 25% to cover variation. So $1.25 worth of XCP might be locked away per USD token. They could sell the token to get $1 of XCP back, so they'd basically be net a long XCP bet.

I can imagine that this kind of usage would increase the scarcity of XCP and push the price up (so in the next round a unit of XCP could back a larger dollar value of assets, and so on).

Something like this could work in parallel with unbacked assets, and I could also imagine having fractionally backed assets, so users would have greater choice.

EDIT: Clarity
33  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: March 27, 2014, 03:49:32 PM
Great stuff - upvoted.
34  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: March 27, 2014, 03:33:25 PM
There is nothing to stop people from issuing LTC (or whatever) trading derivatives, similar to how XBTC has been created on Counterparty as essentially a proxy for BTC. We encourage folks in the community to come up with and enact these kinds of use-cases (in a thoughtful, responsible manner, not unlike how XBTC was created and is operated).

XBTC is cool, but it still leaves us with Counterparty risk. If there were additional ways to help mitigate that risk, either with XCP backed assets, or say, with OT style voting pools, I think it'd make the Counterparty ecosystem even more attractive.
35  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: March 27, 2014, 01:52:49 PM
What about requiring the issuer to put collateral (xcp) into the system. For example: I issue LTC within Counterparty and have to put up xcp worth the amount of LTC that is bought from me. This would make the system more safe/reliable and boost the demand for xcp. 

Funnily enough, I just posted a similar idea in the main Counterparty forums.
36  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: March 24, 2014, 12:19:12 PM
@LED_LCD, @CityGlut @Community

Video Update: Things are going well!


Looking very professional!
37  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: March 23, 2014, 07:46:27 PM
FWIW, if there are any developers interested in keeping Counterparty going once multisig abuse filters are in place, there is no reason the recommended plan cannot work with a fork of Counterparty instead of the original developers.

This is quite horrifying. Correct me if I'm wrong, Luke. But it sounds like you'd be quite happy to see the death of Counterparty at this point. Are the lines of communication now closed between yourself and the Counterparty developers? Is there even a part of you that sees value in what we're trying to achieve here?

A fork can always happen, but my hunch is that the vast majority of us will stick with PP, CG and the original project.

We're very fond of our devs around here.
38  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][XCP] Counterparty Protocol, Client and Coin (built on Bitcoin) - Official on: March 23, 2014, 06:51:57 PM
On a sidenote, the counterparty video is coming along ! Get excited ! Trailer is coming tomorrow or Tuesday Smiley

Great stuff, looking forward to seeing what you've created!
39  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / [XCP] Counterparty Protocol - Assets / Issuers Thread on: March 23, 2014, 10:42:09 AM
I'll be maintaining this as a quick reference to the most important assets / issuers on the Counterparty Protocol.

If you can see any important ones that are missing, please post them below.

XBTC

Using this gateway service you can swap BTC for XBTC tokens (which are native to Counterparty) and, using these, you can trade on the distributed exchange against any native Counterparty asset without considering fees, troll orders or needing to wait for the other side of the trade to trigger a BTCPay (see here, under "Exchanging BTC for other assets" for an explanation of BTCPay).

XBTC is a native Counterparty asset and can be held in full escrow by Counterparty.

LTBCoin

Coming Soon. This is the internal currency of the Let's Talk Bitcoin content network. LTBCoin is positioned as the first "Network Coin" and aims to give content creators working on the Let's Talk Bitcoin show a stake in its success, to enable others to speculate on the success of the project, and as a means of buying sponsorship on the show itself. The currency is currently preparing for its initial disbursement.

Bitcoin Tangible Trust

Bitcoin Tangible Trust have published their intention to offer gold coins via the Counterparty Protocol in order to allow customers to bet on gold prices and to avoid volatility risk. Bitcoin Tangible Trust are aiming to be a physical gold custodian and digital gold asset issuer.
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