Yeah I mean if crypto makes me a millionaire I'd be sure to talk to tax lawyers if I wanted to stay in the US. There is no point right now as I'm probably at a huge loss. However, from the sounds of it, it sounds like the gov is literally out to try to get you even if you do that. Like face the risk of hiring a lawyer and getting charged and possibly convicted of something anyways so is it really even worth it? Moving to another country would suck but at least you'd be free from unfair tax laws from a literally evil government that tries to punish you for doing the "right" thing and being law abiding. Since having private bitcoin isn't illegal, nor is not saving receipts of purchase.   

And I was under the impression a lot of bitcoin out there is still in the unknown. As in there are holders of it who have not revealed they own it. Is that really all a thing of the past? I heard that some years back that a lot of bitcoin addresses are held by unknown entities and have been holding from 2013? or something like that. Ancient whales or something. So like some of it is probably people who could have mined it on a laptop or something, or maybe bought and literally forgot about it until recently ish or something idk. I was under the assumption it's still a thing. Idk if most of them revealed themselves when it went up to 60 70k? Idk. Like I feel like there are tons of people who didn't cash out because it didn't make them rich, just like bought a small amount or just a few bitcoins when it was cheap or something long ago, and are just waiting till it reaches a mil. Idk. What metric can we use to measure that?

I've also been wondering, how do they look at these millionaires who cash out from before KYC was a thing? Back when you didn't need KYC, surely there are some anonymous whales right now who will eventually cash out. The gov going to arrest them because they cant prove how they bought them? Clearly, you'd see the bitcoin, just sitting for a long time somewhere. I guess maybe they forgive that since there were no KYC requirements for the longest time. I mean hell, there are still anonymous ways to buy it, or ways to anonymize it. They going to go after everyone after a certain date or what?

It's probably somewhat easy to hide the paper trail. I just hate the fact that wanting privacy is treated like a criminal offense even though it's not at all illegal. If bitcoin goes to the tens of millions I'll prob be forced to play it safe and revoke my citizenship and move to a more crypto friendly nation, of which, idk atm. Maybe declare my millions, pay whatever tax on it, then reapply for US citizenship if I want to come back. Such a fucking hassle to merely cash out. Well, I guess the US gov will miss out on the taxes I'd pay on cashing out. Dumb fucks, their loss.

I keep hearing about how if you're not using Tor or or VPN you can be identified as a bitcoin user by your IP address. How is that a thing?

If I have bitcoin on a wallet, what about my IP could identify me? Does it matter if you use Tor to look at transactions but just didn't have all internet traffic through Tor when you activate your wallet on your phone or computer?

Yeah they hate privacy for sure... but there is no law against making your coins private. Say swapping to xmr and back. So I dont get what they can do from a criminal law standpoint, they need evidence you did something wrong right? If they have nothing because it's just bitcoin that showed up some time ago from an xmr swap, it's just a new fresh bitcoin, and if it sat for years and suddenly goes to an exchange. Like they can suspect maybe you did something wrong but what can they do about it unless they crack xmr itself?

The only thing i can think of is maybe them wondering if you paid taxes on the swap when you swapped from xmr to bitcoin but guess what, you only have to report anything if you made a profit. no cap gains taxes on losses. So just convert during a bear market.

Are there any known cases of anyone getting in legal issues from crypto because they kept their coins private?

That's crazy they wont take "I bought bitcoin back when it was around 20k and held onto it for years" approach! What are the probably many other people who still have bitcoin from 2013 and so on when it was only a few thousand but they bought from one of the plentiful non KYC exchanges?

So is it if you just show up with 1 mil out of no where? Or is it so long as they can see that the bitcoin has sat in a wallet for a long time but is just not connected to a paper trail, would that matter?

Either way, something tells me the totalitarian states of America is not the place to be when you want to cash out.

I guess at most it would be a minor to major inconvenience depending on how long it takes for their funds to be unfrozen.

So you know how some exchanges will freeze or reject "tainted" bitcoin?

Bitcoin from coinjoins, or bitcoin known to be associated with silk road 'type' places?

What if someone fed up with not being able to offload their tainted bitcoins send small amounts of theirs to public addresses that have lots of bitcoin.

Would doing that, taint those larger addresses if those whales then sent their bitcoin to an exchange like Coinbase?

How does it work, do these exchanges treat every wallet connected with a tainted wallet as also tainted or do they treat them as separate individuals?

Meaning a tainted bitcoin wallet could just open a new fresh bitcoin wallet and transfer their tainted bitcoins to that new fresh wallet as like a new identity... since you know it could very well be a new totally different person. You wouldn't know.

Thanks, yeah how about like 1 entire bitcoin? Lets say someone bought bitcoin every couple weeks over time and has 1 bitcoin. Bought via exchange, and ATMs that don't require ID and just converted to XMR, sent to another address and converted out to bitcoin. So there aren't many records.

And lets say the individual is not going to spend or sell the bitcoin until it reaches 1 million dollars... which could be in the far far future, 20 30 maybe 40 or 50 years from now. Something that makes it possible that records held by the ATM and exchanges could be gone if those exchanges go out of business.



And, if someone had 10 anonymous bitcoins.... I'm thinking they should wait till it goes up past 70k again and move to a more tax forgiving country, or a country that will not be afraid to tell the US to go F-off... And honestly there are few nations that will do that, maybe Russia? Although being prepared to follow all the laws of this new country you have moved to because you've burned your bridges.

What percentage does it take in fees though? The issue I've had with either coinjoins or mixers cant remember which is the fees are high.

The site lists which ones ask for KYC and which do not. So far it hasn't been inaccurate as to which ask for KYC.  Although this can change. Some of these exchanges might in the future ask for KYC. I dont think it accounts for that but yeah.

I think they've been around longer than this month. I've seen ads from them from January but yes they are kind of new which makes me worried and why I've only used small amounts. But as for what it does it's obvious. You can exchange BTC for XMR and then back again through Tor. It kills the trail. You can then have it sent to a fresh /new BTC address you created.

I hear coin mixers can taint your bitcoin whenever you want to cash it out on a KYC exchange and/or are not fool proof. So far there is nothing more anonymous than using XMR. Until further notice, they have not been cracked yet.

If he's talking about the one case I'm thinking about, the Russian dude and his girlfriend it's because they were pretty dumb. They used KYC exchanges. They knew about the concept of monero but didn't wash everything through it.

It's just easy, don't use a KYC exchange to do anything with. Use Tor so the exchange doesn't have your IP address. If an "anonymous" exchange doesn't allow Tor usage then it's clearly Fed operated and should stick out like a glow stick.

just as an update, I used Majestic Bank. So far it's been smooth no probs. I've used small amounts transferring a couple hundred worth, they seem to have fair fees.

Just putting this here for anyone who may be looking for or needs this info.

This site has good recommendations for anonymous crypto exchanges and lists which ones allow XMR.

https://kycnot.me/

The easiest way I found is just buy bitcoin, swap it to xmr then send xmr to another exchange to swap back to btc and just like that, the public KYC/paper trail is broken.

I haven't tried all of it yet. I've have Bisq which is decent but for a beginner it's challenging. It connects via Tor which is awesome.

 I'll give updates as I try some of these other apps/sights and post on them.

Other notable examples not listed on that site are the Ingcognito wallet/exchange. However larger amounts over a few hundred USD worth of crypto will be hit hard with trading fees. Cons is it's only for smartphones. It's relatively easy to use, just get two phones. Swap btc for xmr, send xmr to either an address you own outside of the app (best method for max privacy) then send from there to your other incognito wallet on your other phone and swap xmr back to btc. I'm bad at math but seems like the fees for this all is around 10% possibly?

Atomic Swap is also a thing. But I haven't calculated what percent of fees it are.

I haven't used it yet but Majestic Bank claims to have an Exchange fee  of only 0.5% which would be very good. Also the most convenient.

I hear that either Trezor, or Ledger, have a built in swap feature and allow Monero transactions. Which will be great if they do.   

 I think privacy is a human right so idk if this is the right place for this topic but I wanna spread the word on how to remove the all seeing eye of Sauron and its 3 letter alphabet mafia gang friends from seeing your crypto transactions.

It is if you play the long game. People who bought btc at 1000 dollars a decade ago watched in horror as the first major bull market turned bear. imagine putting 1000s of dollars just to watch it turn into 100s. No doubt many people sold and lost out. But the ones who held are now legends among men. They are millionaires now.

I heard it does but idk?

Oh well that's awesome to hear. I need alt trading with XMR in particular lol. I'm really trying to figure out the cheapest way to trade BTC to XMR and vice versa. Atomic swap takes a bit out percentage. Last time I used it, 100 bucks of bitcoin took out 10 or more dollars worth of crypto so I was left with about maybe 80 something to 90 dollars of xmr. There is another private trading app called the incognito wallet but it's only for very small amounts, anything larger than a couple hundred dollars is going to kill you in trading fees which are very misleading. but for less than a few hundred dollars its only a few bucks per trade. But that adds up if you're sending in btc to get xmr, to send somewhere just to convert it back it's nearly the same amount taken using the atomic swaps. And most non KYC exchanges dont support XMR trading.

But yeah thanks, I'm gonna download it and hopefully the fees will be in the less than a dollar range per swap/trade. All I really want is to easily buy anonymous bitcoin. Damned I really miss not seeing the value in buying it back when I first heard of it. I was like an NPC back then mentally speaking.

Wonder if anyone could open up a purely anonymous crypto exchange like ran on the tor network or something? Idk.

Does Bisq have a good selection of alt coin trading?

And okay, I can see how they could enforce banning the from operating in the US. But.. how could they force them not to serve US citizens? I dont get that part. Like Krakken apparently doesn't serve US citizens but why does it matter if they do or dont if they're not even operating in the US?

what would happen if an exchange opened in a super crypto friendly nation decided to ignore the US demanding it have KYC?

which nations have the best crypto laws of lack-thereof

but which countries are the best for here?

also what true dex's are there? Binance used to have a Dex but apparently that was a lie as they started implementing kyc.

which ones are tor friendly? Kucoin seems to not like me using tor to use their exchange.

Kraken seems to work but i need to select my country of residence. which country has the best/most lax laws?