I read a while ago that the revnue of miners has already increased significantly due to the price rise in the beginning of the year.
If mining was profitable at 200-300 usd with older hardware, it definately is still profitable at 600+ usd, with newer hardware even if the rewards are halved.
Small miners may not run anymore, but big ones in low power cost areas will still run quite profitably.
No offense, but you guys have no idea what you are talking about because you ignore the DIFFICULTY modifier. Difficulty has gone up 4x in the past year! - PLUS now the halving! So you get 1/8th the BTC now than you got 1 year ago for the same hashrate. So when we say "miners were mining when it was half the price", YES, but they also made 8x more coins! |
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Only idiots are buying, so it's a good way to designate idiots from the rest.
You have to know when to hold them, and know when to fold them. Yeah it kinda sucks when Bitmain holds all the cards. I mean I should have learned my lesson after my Avalon Original Batch 3 box made a 100BTC investment 50BTC. Even the early Antminer S1 batches were hit/miss on profitability. I skipped the S3 (undervolted my S1s instead though the S3 was solid) and the only ASIC gear that was really profitable was the S5/SP20 due to the long-depressed bitcoin price that kept difficulty in check and the high resale value. Basically luck! S7 I bit on Batch 2/4 knowing it was overpriced and a gamble but I wanted the power efficiency. In hindsight that wasn't a great idea. Remember S7s started out in the 3-4 BTC range and dropped like a rock because 28nm was easy for Bitmain to shove out the door. In fact I really do believe Bitmain knows exactly how they can control difficulty, and they are doing that right now to maximize profits and keep selling miners at an inflated cost. Eventually they will do the math and find out they can drop the S9 down to 1.5BTC or something and sell a ton of them but for now they are fine with raking in the profits and by keeping the difficulty low on their hashnet to squeeze the last bit of profitability from their S7s until they are ready to flood the market with cheap S9s. I just see the S9 following the same curve as the S7. When Bitmain decides to start pricing them better and move volume, that will determine how much of a LOSS the current S9 owners get to enjoy! |
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Yep. Sellem!
Only profitable with free power.
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Ok, now I feel stupid. I had to take a magnifying lense to see that. I thought they all said 12v, I didnt spot the rail ID untill you pointed that out.
CTRL+mousewheel will zoom in/out without having to use a lens! So the issue with 12v1 & 12v2 is the lack of connectors, only 4 wires for 20A? FIRE! |
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Unless price of BTC doubles in short order after halving ( http://www.bitcoinblockhalf.com/ ) of Block rewards early adopters are screwing themselves paying these initial asking prices for S9. Curious to see what the S9 will be selling for in August. No technically everyone who buys this is screwing themselves, even if BTC price doubles. I think the doubling will happen (well 400>800) but the point is you'd be better off buying 3.4BTC and HODL rather than spend 3.4BTC to make 2.9BTC back in the future! |
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I wonder what the price would be?
You'll get it 2wk (essentially) before halving. Interestingly, this pretty much follows what happened w/ B1 and B2 for S7.
B2 for S7 was also slightly underpowered and less in price. I am curious as to what power they will be using as well.
My calculation shows 1355W at the wall if efficiency is the same as B1 (with 93% efficiency for PSU).
Incidentally, S7 is also available for the same $440+40-50 shipping=$480-490.
I don't know who would sell their S7 for less than $400 in this situation (right now), especially that it is earning at the peak level for the next month or so.
Everyone was soo concerned with the S7 Batch 1 being 4.86GH and Batch 2 being 4.66Ghz. I actually liked the lower hashrate because I figured it would be easier on my 120V PSUs. So my "4.66Gh" Batch 2/4 S7s ended up doing 4.6Gh and 4.9Gh respectively AND I got them ASAP after ordering while people who "held out" for the 4.86Gh models (Batch 1/3) actually ended up waiting longer. Still run completely fine today, never upgraded/touched anything, just reboot them every 3 months when I clean out the fans! TL;DR: Buy even batches, better value! (and on my S7s it was 50/50 if they would run the faster speed anyway!) |
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Will these be any good after the halving?
S9 will be the only miner that will be any good after halving if you are paying $.10/kWh or more for electricity. This is most likely the correct answer. to further explain it todays network has : 400ph of older then the s-7 900 ph of s-f or avalon 6 500 ph of newer then the s-7 ie the s-9 when the ½ ing comes the older gear then the s-7 will be pretty dead. so 200-400 ph of useless gear. the s-7 will be hurting so 600-900 ph of okay gear the s-9 will be king say 500ph right now. I would guess 200 to 400 ph will drop off the network very quickly in July Wow philipma1957 this is the first time I have seen anyone put numbers to the current hashrate. Just curious where you came up with those? Was it discussed on another thread? I'm thinking those numbers are pretty realistic! I think you also have to consider the price into the numbers. As far as paying for power to run the miners, if Bitcoin is $450/coin, $600/coin, or $900/coin also plays a part in how much gear gets taken offline. |
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I have a 8 AntMiner S1s that are underclocked/volted to 140Gh 180W draw with the pencil mod. Makes them nice and quiet also. And they still make $0.17/day each! (LOL)
Don't have PSUs for them, but the S1s were built like tanks and very fun/easy to work with. I would part with them for just the cost of shipping if I knew they were going to a good cause!
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Is there a good way to measure PFC for the layman?
I've always ran my PSUs hard (100+ degree garage, 70% load) and while I've only had a couple outright fail I've always wondered if their PFC degrades over time.
I'm sure there is lots of noise in general. For example my garage door transmitter barely functions anymore when the miners are running!
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There is no use in using a battery backup for loads like miners.
According to APC.com you would need:
APC Smart-UPS SRT 5000VA 208V + (4)SRT192BP Battery Unit (calculated runtime @ 2800W is 126min)
So you would need $4,000 + 4x($1,000) or basically $8,000 worth of APC UPS gear to "do it right".
Also, with that many regular power outages plan on replacing batteries often!
You can "homegrow" your own solution, but batteries will need constant replacement and the reality is UPS is just not worth it!
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Lol
This is gold, as in comedy. I love Bitmain ineptitude and indifference to customer care, to them you are nothing more than a source of dollars, not people, they think they can just step on you, squeeze you till your blood runs dry. Vampires, man, vampires, stay away people!
And this is different from any other company how? Its pretty simple. Don't use China RMA. Use any other option! Denver for me! |
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This is really easy pupok:
Don't buy anything now. Wait until the reward halving occurs.
When that happens, gear will be CHEAP! Miners always go down in price!
If you want to try mining get ONE S7 or ONE S5 and try it out!
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Yep I think about the same but they will sell it right before the halving to maximize the price they can get for them.
Well, I'm not even contemplating purchasing new equipment until after the halving. Mainly because we have no idea what the price of BTC will be and what the difficulty will be. Anyone else who wants to pay what may possibly be a premium just before halving based on the current difficulty and price of BTC at that time can do so if they want to gamble. Buying the batch 1 S7 when I did at $0.10 power costs did not break even until I sold them on eBay. It wasn't worth my while with my power costs. That's why I'm waiting to see what the price of the S9 will be and only purchase if it is a fair price to justify moving to an area of the country with $0.03 per kWh. This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ My Batch 2/4 S7s are still going strong on their original firmwares @ 575 and 606mhz (higher chip count version), though I wonder if I end up rebooting them if I would have to put in the DNS ping fix to get them hashing again! I can't believe the S7 is now on Batch 17. So many people have lost money on the S7, I simply don't understand who buys em. The only thing I'm sure about is they will generate half the BTC they do today very soon! |
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I ran about 7KW of gear in my garage last summer. Temps hit 115 degrees or so regularly in the peak of the summer. I did have to downclock the couple S5s I had to around 275-300mhz if I remember right to keep them cool enough with the fan at full fan speed (stock fan). Afterwards when it got cold again one S5 was never able to OC very well without going xxx on one blade. Oh well!
S1/S3 were never as temp sensitive, and the SP20 could be downvolted/downclocked to survive just fine.
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I don't see point buying S7, when after halving they are not profitable, if you don't have very cheap electricity.
by very cheap you mean less then 3c a kwh.. :/ the price on batch 11 is insane.. it will cost more then you will get out of it, even if you are lucky and there are no more 20% diff increases.. But still people are buying these new S7s so I guess Bitmain will continue on flooding us and the difficulty increase will continue. Cmon guys. Do you really think its S7s or even Avalons increasing the hashrate? We know Bitfury had that working "demo" chip quite a while ago now. My bet is the first batch just got deployed in the past few weeks. BW has their chip also, but I'm thinking its not them as they are probably a little more behind. What really happened here is someone got their new 14/16nm chip up and running in a big way, and just hasn't publicly stated such. |
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How do I run one of these bad boys in Canada with only 120 Volts?
I run mine off 120V, just use regular ATX PSUs that are single rail. However you do need a dedicated 20A circuit to be safe! I use a 1000W PSU (2 boards) + 650W PSU (1 board). Or get an EVGA 1600. I used a 1300W for a while but it was just too close to the margin for comfort IMNSHO! |
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Personally I don't believe that we will see any of the miners on sell for the open market. Anyone with a half of brain will simply buy the chips and mine for themselves. Their latest announcement is pure PR bullshit and lies, but we will not see them in the wild as it should happen. Thanks Bitfury for the constant stream of lies! Whatever brings the money, right?
Meh "Whatever brings the money" is right - and that goes for all ASIC manufacturers! I'm not sure why everyone is bitchy about BitFury's stance on this, even BitMain proved with the S7 its all about the money! I don't think we need another "S7 launch"-priced ASIC. Ripoff the customers by severely overpricing in the beginning, then drop the price like a rock to move even more volume when you cause difficulty to skyrocket. Really its been this way since Avalon launched the first ASIC. Even with jumping through all the manufacturer/group buy hoops to obtain ASICs at the lowest possible price for the BCT forum members, actually obtaining ROI on an ASIC is a crapshoot even when you do the homework! What is this, fool me 37 times? You pretty much need to be in bed with the ASIC supplier to have any real chance! |
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