Hey. I'm just wondering if anyone has written a proof of concept program which attempts to trick the network into allowing double spending. I think it would be good to get something like this out in the open soon so it can be tested thoroughly before the network get any bigger.

It would also be nice to see how the default client reacts when a malicious attempt is detected.

Looks like the offers are drying up. I'll probably put the trade through tomorrow.

I don't have a personal preference for semantics, I just think that it can be problematic to use a term that is usually associated with something vastly different from what you are trying to describe. Technically you could use the word 'paedophile' to describe someone who likes children. However I don't think someone who likes children would be likely to describe themselves as such.

You're right though that it isn't that important.


Well I understand the way that property rights could be enforced within a stateless society. I just disagree that the NAP and natural rights are complete justifications because they're both meant to be objective concepts but depend on arbitrary property agreements. It can be good, though, to appeal to the fact that most people don't like being aggressed against and show them how the state does this. Other than that I prefer to focus on practical issues which nobody on this forum seems to have talked about (I may at some point).

update added. Good to see there is interest.

I have a Minecraft gift code which it turns out I don't need. The gift code can be applied to any minecraft.net account to allow access to the payed beta, as well as future updates. I am willing to take offers if anyone wants it. The game currently costs €14.95.

update:

Good to see there is some interest!

I'd love to use proper means for this transaction. I've looked into OTC, and will be verifying with it later today.

update:

Verified as sharperguy. Added my fingerprint to my signature.

update:

Ok the bidding will be ending 12 hours after the last bid. This will be at 3AM GMT, unless another bid is made.

update:

Ok, I guess there are no more bids. Message me on #bitcoin-otc and I will create and complete the trade.

Winner: cdhowie
Price: 18 BTC

This is not the purpose of the Austrian definition of value. The purpose is to provide a definition which is internally consistent, and robust enough to build a theory of economics on. I cannot tell you whether "all value exists solely in terms of immediate human preference" because you still haven't given a consistent definition of the term as you are using it.

I'm just trying to say that there are many mutually exclusive things that the term 'value' can be used mean, and to use it without stating what definition you are using only leads to confusion - as demonstrated by this thread.

I think you've both missed the point of the video. The point wasn't to tell people what this 'value' thing they've been taking about was, but rather to give a useful and consistent definition of value which can be used in logical reasoning. The reason I linked to it is because everyone seems to have different definitions of terms which lead to unnecessary arguments.

Value can mean, for example, the physical properties of an object which give it characteristics to be used for a certain purpose. For example, two logs on a fire can provide more heat when burned than one. There is clearly nothing subjective about this definition of value. Austrians economists choose, however, to use the word 'utility' to describe this phenomenon.

Value, as used in the video, essentially refers to how much a person values a particular means of achieving of a particular end. In this case, two logs on a fire may be less valuable than one, because I personally find the resulting temperature to be too high. However, for other uses, such as boiling water, two logs may be preferable.

No matter what definitions we use, we can see that there are two mutually exclusive concepts at play here. So saying 'value can both be subjective and objective' is nonsensical.

The term value is also commonly used as a synonym for price. Of course, people may use whatever definitions of terms they like, but in general it is best when having a debate to have consistent definitions for terms, and have different terms for different meanings.

If I may, I'd like to suggest that everyone in this thread take the time to watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h36Dni1ZPX0

It explains the meaning of the terms 'value', 'utility' and 'price' as used by Austrian economics. I think it is very relevant to this thread, and should hopefully get everyone on the same baseline.

Format RS addict here. Lvl 95 with 40M gold...

Actually considering selling my account but I have a lot of freinds who I'd have to explain it to without tipping off jagex and getting banned.

I see this as the only problem with Voluntarism. The non-aggression principle assumes that violation of a persons property is an aggression. However, property rights are not objective, as they are determined by the interactions and agreements between the parties involved.

By the way, I believe it was Rothbard who coined the term 'anarcho-capitalism', but also later regretted it and acknowledged that it is misleading. The meaning of words are essentially defined by how most people understand them, and most people don't associate anything compatible with capitalism with anarchy.

Some good libertarian works which focus more on the economic issues:

Economics in One Lesson - Henry Hazlitt. An introduction to economics to show how many policies and situations can have vastly different effects than what most people expect.

Defending the Undefendable - Walter Block. Goes through chapter by chapter defending the practices of many people who are shunned and outlawed who, he argues, actually have a good effect on society, or at least don't hurt anyone. Some examples include prostitutes, drug-dealers and employers of child labour.

Human Action - Ludwig Von Mises. Perhaps the most important book ever written on Austrian economics. Presents Mises' full theory of human action and decisions from the ground up, and detailed explanations of implications. Very technical but doesn't depend on prior knowledge to understand it. Highly recommended if you have the time to invest.