Can someone keep updating this thread? Some of us don't use Facebook. Opperman was Doxxed. Oh? |
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rofls... 0.00%
BT is definitely going to be getting a lot of 'cashouts' when the servers come up....assuming they eventually do.
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Many Ponzi schemes share common characteristics. Look for these warning signs:
- High investment returns with little or no risk. Every investment carries some degree of risk, and investments yielding higher returns typically involve more risk. Be highly suspicious of any "guaranteed" investment opportunity.
Check
- Overly consistent returns. Investment values tend to go up and down over time, especially those offering potentially high returns. Be suspect of an investment that continues to generate regular, positive returns regardless of overall market conditions.
Check
- Unregistered investments. Ponzi schemes typically involve investments that have not been registered with the SEC or with state regulators. Registration is important because it provides investors with access to key information about the company's management, products, services, and finances.
Check
- Unlicensed sellers. Federal and state securities laws require investment professionals and their firms to be licensed or registered. Most Ponzi schemes involve unlicensed individuals or unregistered firms.
Check
- Secretive and/or complex strategies. Avoiding investments you do not understand, or for which you cannot get complete information, is a good rule of thumb.
Check
- Issues with paperwork. Do not accept excuses regarding why you cannot review information about an investment in writing. Also, account statement errors and inconsistencies may be signs that funds are not being invested as promised.
Check
- Difficulty receiving payments. Be suspicious if you do not receive a payment or have difficulty cashing out your investment. Keep in mind that Ponzi scheme promoters routinely encourage participants to "roll over" investments and sometimes promise returns offering even higher returns on the amount rolled over.
Check
http://www.sec.gov/answers/ponzi.htmsounds a lot like the US Government too  |
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Seems they are now scrubbing the FB Group Page...  Either that or Facebook can't tell which is older...a post made 15hrs ago or a post made 2hrs ago. ....why do people still use that PoS social media site... |
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nooo, in 21 days my second to last Share Block expires....hold on for another month please |
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I damn near fell out of my chair after reading that FB post. (from laughter; I figured something would "come up" and delay the audit.)
It's even better that another posted a screen shot of them saying they would release the Audit regardless of it being "good" or "bad".
I also like them threatening Group Members with bans for calling them liars.
Oh well, few more weeks and I'm out.
...though, I might toss a few hundred back in for "lulz".
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Because the Bitcoin Foundation has been 'above board'  |
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Oh, you like how the article doesn't actually link to their Government (read: Official) registration? This is a sponsored story by Cryptco Miner LTD. Links to: http://www.companieshouse.gov.uk/That's it...no direct link to the actual registration. |
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Counting your chickens before they hatch |
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Oh, I know that BT's payout is... above average ...does seem odd that a scheme wouldn't mimic 'realistic' outputs. I think if the payout was roughly 1% per week the demand for 'Proof of Legitimacy' would have been delayed for several years. |
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Why not, if "random people on the internet" investments help them to earn even more ? I don't see anything wrong in it.
Their method of raising capital is illogical and does not increase their profit. See below quote from another thread. I don't have any investment in bitcoin-trader.biz. Still I'm amazed at how little creativity detractors show. For example, it is easy to have revolving lines of credit for fiat. There are also multiple ways of moving fait and you can even move by using other cryto currencies. There are fees and spreads that cut into the profit, but that isn't as much an issue if you can trade a multiple of your funds in a day. It is also possible for prices between exchanges to narrow or reverse in a day.
On creativity: What about the myriad ways a hypothetical arbitrageur could leverage his or her trading? *Reinvesting some of their steady, fabulous profit until arbitrage opportunity has diminishing returns (no cost!) *Bank loan, home loan refinance, etc. (~5%) *Equity investors/partners (could be quite low and risk-free to arbitrageur) *Credit card cash advance (~20%) *Loan shark (~40%) *Payday loan (~200%) *Paying dozens of people 0.5-3% everyday and updating their balances appropriately (~620-3000%)
Not only is the last option the most expensive, it's the most labor-intensive. Literally the only reason someone would do that is if they want the ability to take the money and run.Indeed. And also: If you walk up to any venture capitalist or other investment firm and can prove to them that you have a way to make 0.5-3% per day risk-free (which is what BT claims), they'll be falling over eachother to give you their money. You wouldn't need to bother with making a website with account-management, keep an entire support team on payroll and bother with questions and complaints from people with $50 investments. Furthermore, you could definitely negotiate better terms when it comes to your own cut of the profits and the lock-in time of the investment. If BTs activities are real, then their way of collecting money is incredibly inefficient and simply wasting a ton of potential profit for them. Technically speaking then. Any stock that pays out Dividends is doing the same operation as BT. Just to note: I treat BTC as stock. Because stock's value changes and is used as monetary compensation; aka Stock Options (during hiring or during company mergers). In this case BT's business is to buy and sell BTC, hopefully at a profit at the end of the day (literally). Just as a company's business is to sell its services and at the end of the day (yearly/quarterly) make a profit. From those profits a percentage is designated to be paid out to investors; Dividends. |
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I'd have to keep a record to even hope to show the pattern. But this is the first time looking at it
You can get the numbers from Bitcoin Charts by using load raw data on the charts page. Meant I'd have to keep a record, in this case per month, of the 'Time Period: Daily' filter. But that's a bit too much work some a casual like myself. |
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It's not much of a change, but it is a noticeably predictable cycle. I emphasis cycle because the change is so small, that I usually see it go back up above the point I had initially looked at in the morning on CoinWarz.
Unless you can prove it with numbers you are probably just seeing what you want to see. The mind is great at seeing patterns that aren't really there. This is just the kind of speculation that Pirateat40 encouraged among his followers. No need to explain what you're doing if they already think they know. True, but the charted activity per week does substantiate the 'noticed pattern'. 10 days: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg10zigDailyztgSzm1g10zm2g25I'd have to keep a record to even hope to show the pattern. But this is the first time looking at it 1 mo: http://bitcoincharts.com/charts/bitstampUSD#rg30zigDailyztgSzm1g10zm2g25August has actually been a pretty good month to show this pattern. There hasn't been any "oh shit" news other than BitLicense. It's still a game of Russian Roulette. But this pattern metaphorically adds 2 extra rounds in addition to the one round EDIT: And no. I am not offering a "get rich-er" thing. Use your brains people. Check the news pertaining to BTC. You could still lose out and the price continue to drop the following week. |
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If you notice the BTC price drops on the weekends. This may be why they don't use bots, and only trade on weekdays; excluding holidays. They use the weekend to drop the price of BTC. So they can pump it up throughout the following week.
...On average, the price drops about $20 USD during the weekend; only to begin rising around Tuesday-ish.
I like the idea of a noticeable pattern, and I'm sure that everyone trading coin would love to take advantage of cyclical events, but looking at the last 3 months of bitstamp prices, I don't see what you see as far as a pattern goes. Please correct me if I am wrong. NB: I modified, in Kolour, a chart I copied from bitcoincharts.com, to highlight the weekends vs weekdays. [snipping photo so the Post Wall of Doom doesn't manifest!] I was just going by what I notice using CoinWarz, defaults to Coinbase's price. Which I believe is Bitstamp's price. Because Coinbase is more like a PayPal with BTC service than an actual trading exchange. But with your chart. You can see that at the start of the Weekend there's typically a sell off (red candle) and a rally starting around Tuesday into Wednesday (green candle). This is, of course, not true if there was a selloff during the Friday-ish day on this planet, meaning it can start as early as Thursday for 'negative' GMT countries (I'm 6hrs behind, myself). It's not much of a change, but it is a noticeably predictable cycle. I emphasis cycle because the change is so small, that I usually see it go back up above the point I had initially looked at in the morning on CoinWarz. Meaning: I get up, check. That becomes the 'high'. Refresh a few hours later and the new 'high' is ~15 - 25 USD below the previous. By the time I go to bed the 'high' is now above the high I remembered seeing when I first checked. However, this change doesn't seem to happen much during the Weekday, unless something panics the crowd (damn you China; stahp eet!); again with the same casual glances. NOTE: I do not chart watch. But I do casually refresh every few hours to check the prices on alt coins and just curiosity of what's going on in BTC Land (ie: Large drop, "oh shit, what happened; let's check the news tab of Google for 'Bitcoin'"). So far I've done...6 cashouts; 4 of those were not reinvestment payments. However, all were requested on Saturday (on purpose). And I believe all by one resulted in my BTC deposit being worth more than when it had been requested. Believe the one happened on the coat-tail of the New York BitLicense thing being announced. FYI: I'm in no way suggesting BT has the ability to do this (and not be in the middle of a collapse; a la MtGox style). But they may have seen the pattern that people tend to sell off their earnings on the weekends. So it's hard to justify running any trades when the overall trend of BTC Pricing is downwards....instead you'd want to be buying and waiting till about mid-week to sell off. This might also explain why the rates are so consistent. What's the difference between being paid 1% per day and 7% per week? ...just the psychological mind game that you think you're being paid more. So, you do the massive trading (per week) during the cyclical cycle of 'up' and 'down' per week and minor trading. Then, per day, use the massive trading (per week) to smooth over the per day trading results. ** It's an interesting theory. That could work. Really, ~1% per day isn't that hard to achieve if you're watching what you do and do get greedy. It's even easier if you have a buffer created at the start of each week, when you bought up a bunch of cheap BTC from the weekend. It also would sort of explain the reluctance to be audited as that would likely show the weekly in/out of money (in this case money being BTC). --Remember, Google doesn't want to disclose how much power their Search Engine farms use because it would give insight into how their 'secret sauce' code indexes searches.** |
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I have a really hard time believing that they have found this incredibly profitable business plan and then want to share the profits with random people on the internet who do nothing but collect the payments. Yes, these people have "invested" capital for BT to use, but for reasons explained earlier in this thread (and others) it is a completely illogical way to fund their business.
If you read their small print they could have a negative performance any number of days, so they could actually drive to zero gradually the locked capital of all investors without even breaching their contract. I don't think that any big investor could accept that, not to speak of giving his money to anons. If it is not a Ponzi, an explanation of their business model could be that they ask for others' money to externalize risk on investors and gain more working money, so leverage to possibly try to manipulate the markets in their favor. Not to say that they earn more by their operations than what they pay to shareholders or so they said. If you notice the BTC price drops on the weekends. This may be why they don't use bots, and only trade on weekdays; excluding holidays. They use the weekend to drop the price of BTC. So they can pump it up throughout the following week. ...On average, the price drops about $20 USD during the weekend; only to begin rising around Tuesday-ish. |
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I'd also like to reach out and say that an audit would only prove the business and funds they have. It does nothing in the case that they get so much money they decide to run. A business that is making $100k a month in profit may still take off when they get $100m in deposits. That's enough to account for 1000 months, or 80+ years of pure profit and not have to do the work.
So the push for audits is irrelevant I think.
A proper audit from a reputable firm could show they are a legitimate business and have all client deposits on hand or in exchange accounts. Sure they could still take the money are run, with little recourse for depositors, but it would be proof they are not a ponzi. Of course, if they are legitimate, they are raising capital in the most inefficient way possible. It does not seem logical that they have an extremely profitable, legitimate business, but are paying insane rates for capital. I really only see two outcomes for this "audit". Either they give an excuse and stall indefinitely, or release useless audit findings. Actually, what would likely happen is there would be a "delay" while the Audit Results are "compiled". ....and that could "take a month or more" --- Hope they stick around for my August share block to mature. |
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Registration Date: 08/04/2014 Status: IN FORCE
No. Writing: Writing 20566 Date: 07/30/2014
Notary: 43
NOTARIA TENTH CIRCUIT
Notary Province: PANAMA
Duration: PERPETUAL Address: PANAMA
Status of the Garment (DEF-FINAL PRE-PRELIMINARY)
Data 1a. Flat Rate
Ballot: 1400130525 Payment Date: 07/31/2014
Those seem to be US formatted dates, given the 7/31/2014 date. So, they just registered 8 days ago? It appears their agent in charge of handling their Panama registration didn't properly communicate [with the registration office???] so there were unanswered questions. (( https://www.facebook.com/groups/bitcointrader/ --sorry, Facebook is retarded and doesn't appear to allow direct linking to Group posts in at least a 'read-only' format)) Yes the reason for it laying around for months was some open questions in regard to our business activities and the previous agent not communicating properly. Now we are allowed to undertake different activities under Panamanian law, I will post an excerpt by tomorrow or Monday. --Main post was made August 9th, 2014 @ 12:01 PM [EST] They also appear to be looking into signing up for a BitLicense (that New York thing)....I asked, so I can't confirm yet. |
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A "New York's BitLicense" -like license would go a long way to proving legitimacy, too.
Technically speaking, BT is a money exchange.
...from my understanding of the guidelines. Any company engaging in converting virtual currency to "real-world" currency is designated a 'Money Exchange Service'.
I'm pretty sure the UK, which is where I recall them being HQ-ed in (but incorporated in Panama), has similar Anti-money Laundering laws.
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Well, it looks like in August we'll know.
Either the proof will be delivered
-or-
The site will 404
sigh would be sweet if it turned out to be legit.
....So tired of wearing 'money' as a leash.
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It's is ironic (believe I'm using it correctly). We get into BTC because we want to avoid Government 'Red Tape'. Yet any service, whether it be retail or service, we are so skeptical of it. That the only way we'll be satisfied is if said business brandishes a Government seal (FDIC, FTC, Exchange Commission, or other Government-level consumer protection agency). Admit it...you'd all love to see a BTC trading company fully certified by the US's SEC or the EU's equivalent. |
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