Would something like this works?

Coin is 100% premined (AND distributed, not like ripple) by some method (but new coins can be created check later).

Crypto has 5 variables.
1-Coin
2-Pre Burn
3-Pre Temporary Burn
4-Temporary Burn
5-Burn.

You can send coins at your coin variable to your pre burn variable, your pre temporary burn variable or other wallets coin variable.
You can send coins at your pre burn variable to your coin variable, or your pre temporary burn variable or someone else coin variable.
You can send coins at your pre temporary burn variable to your coin variable, or your pre burn variable or someone else coin variable.
You can send coins at your pre burn variable to your coin variable or someone else coin variable.
You can send coins at your temporary burn variable to your burn variable.
You can send coins at your burn variable to your temporary burn variable.

Every X blocks (some amount that is 14 days, or 2 weeks), the amount of coins at your temporary burn variable go back to your coin variable. THEN, the amount of coins at pre burn variable goes to to  burn variable and then the amount of coins at pre temporary burn variable goes to your temporary burn variable.

Mining is made based at the amount of coins you have at your temporary burn variable and burn variable.

After Y blocks (Z months) since the start of the coin, when new coins will move to temporary burn and burn variables, it calculate the percentage of market cap those coins are, lets say they are W% of total coins.

After it, when moving coins from temporary burn variable to coin variable, and then pre burn/ pre temporary burn to burn and temporary burn, it first calculate the % of total amount of coins the pre burn and pre temporary burn and burn variable coins are. If that value is smaller than W%, it destroy some % of coins at temporary burn and burn variable first, before sending temporary burn variable coins back to coin variable and then adding pre burn or pre temporary burn coins to burn and temporary burn coin variables. The amount it will be destroyed is some amount that will make those coins be w% of all coins.
If before moving those coins, it discover that the % at pre burn, burn and pre temporary burn variable is bigger than W%, it creates more coins to be mined during those X blocks period (that is 14 days at average), to make the coins at the pre burn, burn and pre temporary burn variables become W% of all coins.

So you make the coin stable by increasing or decreasing the coin amount to make the amount people are ok with burning during a 14 days perior be always, the same percentage of all coins.

Yes, as I said before, I forgot about that part while typing the text, and then post an example at one post of 8 ideas that deal with giving rewards to be mined without creating new coins.

"HOME OWNERSHIP A THING OF THE PAST
    Privately owned housing would become a thing of the past. The cost of housing and financing housing would gradually be made so high that most people couldn't afford it. People who already owned their houses would be allowed to keep them but as years go by it would be more and more difficult for young people to buy a house. Young people would more and more become renters, particularly in apartments or condominiums. More and more unsold houses would stand vacant. People just couldn't buy them. But the cost of housing would not come down. You'd right away think, well the vacant house, the price would come down, the people would buy it. But there was some statement to the effect that the price would be held high even though there were many available so that free market places would not operate. People would not be able to buy these and gradually more and more of the population would be forced into small apartments. Small apartments which would not accommodate very many children. Then as the number of real home-owners diminished they would become a minority. There would be no sympathy for them from the majority who dwelled in the apartments and then these homes could be taken by increased taxes or other regulations that would be detrimental to home ownership and would be acceptable to the majority. Ultimately, people would be assigned where they would live and it would be common to have non-family members living with you. This by way of your not knowing just how far you could trust anybody. This would all be under the control of a central housing authority. Have this in mind in 1990 when they ask, "How many bedrooms in your house? How many bathrooms in your house? Do you have a finished game room?." This information is personal and is of no national interest to government under our existing Constitution. But you'll be asked those questions and decide how you want to respond to them."

https://pastebin.com/cFa6x8M8

Yes, I forgot about that obvious part. It would require changing the system.

Some examples of those changes would be:
A=
1-Has frozen transaction fee going back to you after 1 year.
2-You can also send coin to some place.
3-Money sent to this place back as reward after X months.
4-Amount of money sent to this place is your stake used to decide the mining.

B=
1-Has frozen transaction fee going back to you after 1 year.
2-You can also send coin to some place.
3-Money sent to this place back as reward after X months.
4-Amount of money at this place is your stake used to decide the mining.

C=
1-Has frozen transaction fee going back to you after 1 year.
2-You can also send coin to some place.
3-Money sent to this place back as reward after X months.
4-Amount of money sent send as reward from this place is your stake used to decide the mining.

D=
1-Like A but instead of X months, the money go back as miner reward at next block.

E, F, G, H =
1-Like previous 4, but instead of sending coins to some place that will go back as reward after X months (or next block at the case of D), while making a transaction you can choose between making a normal transaction fee that will go back to you after 1 year, or sending it to some place where the fee will stay there and will go back to as reward to miners and also be used to do the staking related things.

There is some one change that wouldn't have the freezing method.
I=
1-All transactions fees go to the reward pot, there is no freezing.
2-What is used to decide the miner is the amount of coins send as transactions fees.
At idea I you will lose your transaction fees like happens right now, but they will have an extra use.

We have transactions fees, to avoid creating tons of transactions and increase the blockchain size to a extreme amount.

Those transactions fees are sent to the next user who is the miner.

How would the economy of a coin would change if instead of sending the transaction fee to be mined, the transaction fee was frozen and 1 year after it it would be sent back to the wallet. The user wont lose that money, but still can't keep making tons and tons of transactions to spam the blockchain.

First  bitcoin rewards will stop at 21000000

This is not a rule, but part of the rules that make bitcoin, the fact that halving exist and the fact that minimum amount of bitcoin is 0.00000001 lead to that 21000000 coins.

Someone could say its not finite (or its not finite in a way that matters) because the coin will only reach the limit at the future, and they would be PARTIALLY right.

While the coin will only only reach its limit at far future, when people talk about bitcoin limit they are comparing with state inflation methods.

Talking about the state, they believe at doing enought monetary inflation to make sure they can be 100% sure price inflation will occur.
With bitcoin you can't be sure about that since its decided by a program at a fixed rate (not based at transaction fees, harsh rate or anything that could be used to try to maybe calculate price inflation), more after the first 4 years half of the coins were already mined, and then after more 4 years, 75% of the coins were mined..... This inflation amount is low enough and wont cause by itself, price inflation.

One can say that while it wont cause bit itself price inflation it will help to make it happen. The thing is, its obviously possible to have price inflation without monetary inflation, nxt dont have monetary inflation (and because of lost coins will even have monetary deflation), yet price deflation exist, so dont think you will evade price inflation by making the coin premined after X years.
PS:If you want a monetary inflation smaller then 2% per year (the amount of price inflation per year the state want), instead of halving you would need to EACH YEAR divide the block reward by 50, instead of dividing it by 2 every 4th years, or divide it by 12.5 every 4 years (but the less than 2% monetary inflation will happen only after start of year 6).

Also even if bitcoin is changed to allow a value smaller than 0.00000001 bitcoins, those small amount of bitcoins would be small compared to the rest of it and wouldnt matter for those who hate price inflation.

Thanks odolvlobo, thats the kind of info I was searching for.

Is there any site that show what % transaction is the current transactions fees?

Lets imagine at an block of the coin ExampleCoin 200 coins at total were sent from wallets to other wallets. And the amount ExampleCoins used as transaction fees to make all those transactions of those blocks were 1.

The value I want to find is X where X is (100/200) * 1, so 0.5


Is there any site that show the value of X overtime of a coin.

NOPE thats not what I want.

I will try to explain with analogy.

Imagine that at january first 2020 I was 2 times faster than my brother. PS: IMPORTANT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I didnt said what was my speed or my brother speed just how fast I was compared with him AT THAT DATE.
Now imagine that at january first 2021 I was 4 times faster than my brother. Again I said, I didnt said my brother speed or my speed at that date, just how fast I am compared with him at that date.

Can we conclude that at january first 2021 I was 2 times faster than I was at than I was at january first 2020? NOPE, because the january first 2021 information is comparing it with my brother speed at january first 2021, not with my brother speed at january first 2020 (or my speed at january first 2020).

As some example, if at january first 2021 my brother became 10 times faster than he was at january first 2020, this means  I became 20 times faster [ (4 * (10*1)) / (2/1) = 20 ].

So the information I neeed at january first 2021, is not compare how fast I am compared to my brother current speed, by compared to my brother old speed , and so I will be able to find how fast I became compared to my past self.

There is also claimcoin that if you had at least more than 0 bitcoins at a wallet, or LTC at a wallet or a doge at day May 12th 2014, you can get 4.6 claim coins (per wallet that fit this condition), the idea here is to equally spread coins to everyone.

The problem is that one new coin is generated each block to be mined (average of 1 minute), so you get around 21.74% of the original everyone get, after mining just one block.

It would be better if it was 100% premined and it mined the transaction fees.

What I want is basically:

The value of coin/money change over time, so when talking about the value of money you MUST talk about the specific day you are talking about.

When you search at a site the value of bitcoin at day X, it will show: 1 bitcoin (its value at day X) is  1000 dollars (its value at day X too, remember dollars value change over time, so you MUST say its value, the site dont say the date but its implicit).

Then if you search the value of bitcoin at day Y it will show 1 bitcoin (its value at day Y) is 1200 dollars (the value at day Y too).


The problem is that since not only bitcoin value changed over time, but dollar value too, you CAN'T know how much the value of bitcoin changed compared to its past, you are just comparing the value of bitcoin at day Y with the value of dollar at day Y, not the value of bitcoin at day Y to the value of bitcoin at day X or the value of the dollar at day X.


Imagine you just know I was, at the date of january first 2020, 2 times faster than my brother is at this date. And then  you just know that at january first 2021 I was 3 times faster than my brother is at january first 2021. You can't just say that at january first 2021, I am 1.5 times faster than myself at january first 2020, because like me maybe my brother became faster or slower than he was at january first 2020.
If my brother as some example became 2 times faster than his january first 2020 version of himself, I would become not just 1.5 faster than I was but 3 times faster than I was.

The solution to this, is so to compare my january first 2021 speed not to his january first 2021 speed, but to his january first 2020 speed. To be able to see how fast I am compared to myself at the past.



What the site would do is something like that.

1-The user pick an specific date W, or the site select by itself an date W.
2-At date W the site will show the value of day W bitcoin in day W dollars.
3-At other days, lets say day N, the site will show the value of (day N) bitcoin  not in day N dollars, but in day W dollars.

There was some occupy wall street coin that had a 25% demurrage over 30 days, and the coins were distributed between all users.

This means you lost 25% of the coins at your wallet each 30 days. Dont remember if they removed some coins each block that over 30 days would be 25%, of if each X blocks (enought to be 30 days) they removed 25% coins of everyone wallet.

Whats make this idea more stupid is that demurrage and monetary inflation creates subsistance economy, they reduce people power of influencing the market. With only very rich people being able to do it by saving and getting money, because they have companies that if the money value decrease by X they can just increase their price by X, they also have stocks that they can just also increase the price they will sell the stocks for by X and the same with gold and etc...

Thats is sort of what I am talking about (my post had a pretty big typo), people that say that covid is fake believe those behind it would be afraid of killing tons of people.
Covid dont need to be fake, it only needs to be fake if you are afraid of killing people to archieve your goals.
As some example cops use rubber bullets because they want to stop people without killing them, if they are ok with killing protestors then, the rubber bullets are not needed.

Now if you believe bill gates is behind all that, why you believe he is not ok with killing tons of people and need to use a fake covid propaganda instead of a real virus?

By saying the virus is fake, you assume those you believe to be behind the virus would not be ok with killing people to further their own goals or that people dying is not also part of their goals.

Also by the virus being real, it change nothing about what we are allowed to force people to do or stop doing, you dont act illogically when a situation arrives. What I mean with that? Imagine you are against death penalty, you discussed alot at internet to see other people point of views, think alot about it, and all situations related to death penalty and after all that you said to yourself "death penalty is bad. I am against it." If someone kill one of your family members or friend it would be wrong to change your opinion about death penalty at that situation, you already thought alot about it before, discussed this subject with alot of people and made up your mind about the thing and found what is suposedly the right choice when talking about death penalty.

The same can be said about the virus, the virus being real (instead of fake) change nothing about what we should be ok with allowing or not allowing people to do. So you lose nothing by believing at the truth that the virus is real.

Is there any site that instead of showing how much the value of bitcoin at day X+N is compared to the dollar at the same day X+N, so, how much the price of bitcoin is at the day X+N compared to dollar at the specific day X?

At all sites I could find, if you look at the price of bitcoin at january first 2020, it will how much of january first 2020 dollars, this january first 2020 bitcoin is worth. So it will show as some example 1 BTC = 1000 Dollars, but its implied that it is saying 1 BTC (january first 2020 value of the currency) = 1000 dollar (january first 2020 value of the currency).

Lets call bitcoin B and dollar D, the site will sort of show this formula: 1 B = 1000 D.

The problem is that the value of coins, like btc, dollars, euro, or anything else.... changes over time.
At another date, lets say december 1 2020 the site will show 1 BTC = 1200 D, being implied that its saying 1 BTC (december 1 2020 value of the currency) = 1200 D (december 1 2020 value of the currency). The thing is, if the january first 2020 formula was 1 * B = 1000 * D, the formula for an another date will be ((1 * Y) * B) /Y = (( 1000 * Z) * D) /Y where Y is how much the value of BTC increased or decreased and Z how much the value of the dollar increased or decreased.
If at december 1 2020, it shows 1 B = 1200 D, we can't solve the equation ((1 * Y) * B) /Y = (( 1000 * Z) * D) /Y to find the value of Y, first because at 1 B = ((1 * Y) * B) /Y , the value of Y can be anything that is not 0, and at 1200 * B = (( 1000 * Z) * D) /Y is also not solvable, only being able to know that Y is not 0 and Z is 1200 * Y.

So, is there any site that allow me to compare the value of bitcoin over time, with the value of dollar at some very specific day X? At the previous formulas it would be finding the value of Y

Thanks for explanation skaro.


If you think inflation and demurrage sucks, then you will hate demurrage even more.

With monetary inflation (printing more money), because of the way economy works the paper money or digital will be worth less and people will ask for more money when trying to exchange something for this money.
At the end of all this you will have the same amount of money but the things will cost more money than before because of inflation, so you actually lost money.


With demurrage is even worse.
People will lose actual paper notes or digital coins because of demurrage. But not only that, because of the fact that companies are also losing papernotes and digital coins, they will need to increase the price of their products because demurrage will be basically a new tax that the companies have to pay.
So not only you will have less money but the products will cost more than before.

But at least with demurrage, most of the value lost by people (the one lost by losing coins) is seen by them, people (state economists) talk about making people losing value (inflation or demurrage) is good because it make them spend, with inflation many guys dont even know of such inflation and think its natural thing (I assumed as a kid and teenager price increase was a natural thing). So inflation will not make them spend (assuming this is what is wanted and not just some excuse to have state style inflation), because they dont even know they need to because inflation WILL, WITH 100% CERTAINTY, HAPPEN.

Freicoin is even worse because it has both inflation (until all coins are distributed by mining) and demurrage.


Obviously, you are not forced to use freicoin (I hate demurrage and inflation) and so I wont use it. But I find the coin interesting that a least is not just another coin with ALL those 3 features 1-Pow Mining. 2-Coin is not premined (XRP style primine dont count as premine), and the market cap will only be reached at far future. 3-Coin dont have an extreme amount of unique coins (marketcap /minimum amount of coins you can have)




As skaro explained, arent lost due to demurrage, they go back to be mined like the mining fees.

Also this avoid the problem of lost wallet because they will eventually lose all their money to demurrage, sending the coins back to be mined. But the problem wont be solved if a wallet with the minimum amount of freicoin you can have keeps rounding demurage tax down to 0 coins. If that happens you will eventually have tons of lost wallets with the minimum amount of freicoin possible that wont lose this coin due to demurage.

This problem could be solved by creating an extremely small demurrage fee. The problem is that even if that demurrage fee is only 1 satochi per block (one satochi from each wallet go back to be mined each block), this become 0.0005256 bitcoins per year, a value that is not low enough.

If thats can happen whats the point of 21 million coins limit, halving and etc...?

I think 100% premining would be better, since deflation sucks.

Also people here are doing a mistake, the coin will end because of 21000000.00000000 limit not the halving, you could have deflation without halving, and the coin would be fully distributed at the moment of the second halving (because from the first halving to second one, all the reamaining half of the coins would be distributed because there is no halving).


Also halving could be done with other ways, instead of reducing the reward, at the second halving, the blockchain would generate an random number between 1 and 2 and only give the 50 bitcoins rewards if the number generated was 1, at the second halving the number would be a number between 1 and 4 and this goes on.....

I just started to read about this coin and have one question, what stops someone from setting his reward multiplier really really low to make sure he has a extreme amount of chance to be the winner and so is able to mess with the blockchain?