There's so much difference in price for BTC between Kraken & other platforms now.. Kraken lists it 200eur lower.

Proof that it has to do with their engine being broken: I placed a buy order at 6060eur (by miracle, no error), while there was clearly enough at 6060 in the order book. Yet it took over a minute to pass. The price goes down artificially because people can't buy.

..but were they, really?

The BTC dropped by around the (release, since now it's worth nothing) value of the BTG after the fork. Who really made money from the BTG?
The very few who managed to sell at the top when the BTC dropped, and who sold their BTG first. But the rest?
How did that not serve a lesson?
Maybe this time most people were really going to sell before the B2X fork, that is, everyone was thinking that everyone else would "want their free coin", while in fact no one ever did.

That doesn't mean it didn't rise artificially, of course. But I don't really imagine many willing to sell their BTC below 7000USD, while they can just hold it a bit. You know you'll buy again at 7000.

You obviously won't sell, that would be crazy.

You will just forever live with the idea that you just missed (not lost), by a couple of hours, 40x400 (unless BTC dips even more) =16000 USD
Yeah I'm rubbing it in, but I too bought a couple at 7500 (but on the rise after the large fall)...  Not 40 but 5, but it still blows.
The worst is that I was ready for this dip, and I handled it completely wrong.

It looks like it has stabilized at 7200, meanwhile ALTs seem to stagnate after their predicted 10-20% rise, maybe that will convince everyone that it's time to go back to BTC. But many say it will go down further. I don't think it has a chance to pass 7000, but maybe I'm wrong. Hell I still have some money left to buy more at 7000.

It's normal that the dip isn't as big as if the fork had happened. Any large dip after the fork would have been compensated by the value of the B2X. So there is no reason to dip further. We all end up with the same money as if the fork had happened (except for those who think they would have successfully sold their BTCs within the first seconds after the fork. Yeah -some- of you would have had that chance).

So from what I understood: those who just got their ETH frozen in their wallet..

1. it's not fixable without a fork? That is serious

2. it apparently has to do with hacked code (through a prob with its smart contract) on the blockchain

So yeah, think twice. You are not fully in control either because you own a hardware wallet.

I don't think this applies to BTC wallets, but I'm not sure I'd feel safe with these either. All the wallet does is cryptography. But handling it is done through software. Said support software can't be hacked to steal your stuff, but if you've stored your BTC's in a hardware wallet for 10 years, will all the software still be there to operate it in 10 years? Very likely that it will still be findable, but also very likely that the companies will have stopped their support for years. Maybe it'll still be safe, but it will be a pain in the ass.
I have old code on backup tapes somewhere.. it's "safe", it's (probably, but maybe not) still on those tapes.. and to access it I'd have to ebay for an old reader, and possibly an old PC because it was all DOS & old partition systems back then. Well it's "backed up", but for me it's practically lost.

With online wallets you trust people, like you trust your bank. And banks have proven to be fragile as well (but generally they're backed up by countries).

So yeah both suck. Just consider that you're never really in control of your money, unless you have a bar of solid gold (and a gun to protect it) under your bed.
What's ironic is that with this cryptocurrency you're trusting EVERYONE, you give your trust to the mass. In theory it's better, "everyone" can't go wrong (but in practice this "everyone" right now is many large farms, it's not "the people" anymore). But still, with BTC you're trusting strangers more than ever. And they are way more strangers than your national bank, if something happens to your money, it's gone, no one is gonna help you, no one cares. Your bank would, because the money there has your name on it. Different worlds, but they both have advantages. If you like to trust people with guns to protect your gold, instead of owning a gun yourself, a bank or a *reputed, well-funded, regulated & backed up* online wallet isn't a bad idea IMHO.

I don't see a problem in selling low, really..

1. you bought a shitcoin, it has nearly reached the bottom, if the coin is now already forgotten, why not sell before it fully dies?
How many of all these currencies will die... nearly ALL OF THEM, no?
Of course that doesn't apply to BTC.

2. sell low before a predicted fall, buy back lower. Like, right now. Alts rised, we all know they will go down again after the fork dump. Doesn't matter if you bought them higher than they now are, sell & buy back in a week.
If you predicted wrong, you lose, but it's all this game is about.
Of course that means low for you, not for the market. Is ETC high right now? It's low for me. Bought China's favorite coin right before they left... and it's probably rising again because the Chinese came back from backdoor - which means ETC can drop at any time again.

Dude, it's not new, it has been like that for 2 months. I've warned their support that it was 101% sure that this would happen to every new user. Once you know, you adapt and you cancel (& you rage when it fails to cancel & processes the order).

-always verify your order list after an order-

Those who still had many BTC's on Kraken (I only have 1.5 left), you've missed the rise up to 6800. But down to 6100 now. Have a nice day!

Btw this kind of >10% fluctuation in just 2 hours may be an indicator of how big the post-fork dive could be. (even though it will probably get back quickly)
Edit: ah, I hadn't read the news. So THAT was the big fall!

8 hours later and STILL DOWN??? wow


If you KNOW it's broken for everyone, the least is to disable everything but withdraw (I hope THAT doesn't clog your servers), so that we can at least trade somewhere else. I'm glad I sold back nearly everything at night. Those who realized the rise back and haven't been able to sell back must be pretty pissed, imagine goes down 500 again.

Meanwhile on you official news places? NOTHING. Let's hope they're not running with our money.

What amazes me the more with ponzi schemes, is that you all know it's one, but you wanna profit from it knowing that eventually the last ones entering will lose all their money.
To all those Youtubers spamming with ads for Bitconnect just for their viewers to sponsor them, ask yourselves if you won't be legally seen as being active members of an illegal thing.

I wonder why exchanges don't communicate with each other, instead of leaving arbitraging to users.

Btw I've noticed that price differences seem quite logical. For ex, BTC's price is currently a little higher on Bitstamp than on Kraken, possibly to compensate for the higher fees on Bitstamp, and it's 100eur higher on GDAX, possibly because of Coinbase's high 1.5% fees? Can't be because people are ready to pay more there because they will get their B2X, because price is normal on Bitfinex.

And also on Kraken the prices must be bs & freezing a lot, considering no one can trade at all. (like, RIGHT NOW)

Here's why Kraken can't deny it's not working on the issues: fixing up errors/upgrading servers is one thing, and it's already unbeliavable that it takes months.
But when you KNOW you're gonna get such errors for months, you
1. warn users
2. change your error codes to MEANINGFUL ones

These 2 things take 10min to change. A detail explanation of what doesn't work & how to avoid double or triple orders after 5 errors. And updating error codes to meaningful & helpful messages.

Kraken hasn't done this and the reason is probably that it generates more money in fees to place twice the same order behind your back. 3 times more money actually for each double order, since you have to quickly get rid of your unwanted tokens in the case the unwanted order passed.
Worse, having to repeat orders over & over, we make mistakes. Several times I placed a buy instead of a sell (on other trading platforms buy is green, sell is red. Of course on Kraken both are fuckin blue), and we mix up numbers. And is there any safety net/confirmation screen when you place a buy at a price so much higher than market, or a sell so much lower? Of course not.

Oh, and the irony is that all the new unwanted orders we have to delete, & all the retries, are probably clogging your servers even more.
AND what sucks even more is that you have removed automated order types. Without a stop loss order, we have to be in front of our screen & react fast. Reacting fast, when it takes 3 minutes repeating orders until one passes.....

Right now I would like to transfer my BTC's to Bitstamp to continue trading there, and I can't because absolutely nothing works at the moment.

Can anyone explain how this works? How is it that you can trade BT1 for BTC, if BT1 is converted to BTC?

At the moment a BT1 trades for 0.8 BTC or something - how?

GDAX if you manage to register, Bitstamp (high fees, not many currencies). I'm switching to Bitfinex and I'll just have to "think USD".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LefOI4bGRMc

EDIT: I don't understand why you can trade BT1 to BTC, so I'm probably totally wrong in my explanation. Well I'd like to understand how it works too.


Here's how I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong:

1. if you do nothing, you will get "free" B2X's for each BTC, at the time of the fork, like for other platforms that support it


2. you can convert, right now, your 1 BTC into 1 BT1 & 1 BT2. Let's call BT1 "BTC, post-fork" and BT2 "B2x, post-fork".

You can now trade each.

It apprently allows for nice strategies, like:

1. you don't wanna lose money in the process. You can pre-sell right now your BTCs for 6000USD (of course it has already decreased), and your B2X for 940. Which means the same as selling right now, pretty much, but if you had pre-sold each separately at different times, you could have made a nice profit.

2. you don't care for B2X, you wanna convert it to BTC's after the fork, you can already do that. Right now each will grant you 0.13BTC, well it's not bad (edit: actually that doesn't sound too good).

3. you can pre-buy post-fork BTC's at 6000usd

etc..

It's pretty much allowing every choice you can make after the fork, but you can do it now & speculate, instead of waiting & rushing at the second of the fork, knowing the uncertainity of all this.
Which also means that the BTC is already speculated to lose 13%.
If someone has pre-sold his post-fork B2X and BTC's at different time, he might have made a nice profit.
If you think the BTC will go down more than 13%, you can pre-sell your post-fork BTCs for a good price.
If you think the BTC will go down less than 13%, you can pre-buy post-fork BTCs for a good price.

So yeah, you basically bet on the BTC dip and the value of the B2X.


NOW here's why I'm not quite sure of what I'm saying. This speculation has been going on for over a month, and I see trades made when the BTC was around 3000USD. There's not much volume, like up to 10, but yeah, that means that some lucky guy (well not really, he could already have bought BTC's at that price at that time) is gonna get post-fork BTC's for 3000USD, and some unlucky guy is gonna bargain his (that sucks for him).  

ALSO, where I have doubts, it's where their contract says it runs up to end of December. I don't think that means that BTC's or USD's will be credited end of December (which would make it a bad deal), because in another place it also states that the accounts will be credited at the moment of the split. But I'm not sure.

Quite ironic:

https://techcrunch.com/2017/11/07/a-major-vulnerability-has-frozen-hundreds-of-millions-of-dollars-of-ethereum/?ncid=mobilenavtrend


Trusting an online service, or trusting hardware.. really I'm not sure what's worst. It depends on the size & reputation of the service. I trust my bank probably more than I should, but I wouldn't wanna have all my money in gold bars under by bed. Or even worse, as a magic code in my memory, which I don't trust at all.

I have a serious question about this. For someone like me who only enjoyed half of the ride of last week, and who will lose big money if BTC gets back to 5000eur, and thus has to sell, I hope before (sucks when you bought some BTC's at highest price), but possibly after the fork... we all know it happens within the first seconds after the fork, it did for BTG.

So my question is: do market orders really have priority?

Say, more people than expected sell, and there aren't enough buy orders to compensate (espcially on smaller platforms), it can go pretty low pretty quickly, and a market sell could end up selling very very low.
So the best would be a limit order with a sane limit. However, if market orders have priority, then limit orders will all happen after all market orders have been processed, & thus at the bottom.

So what's best in this sad case of predicted dip? Market or limit sell? Do market sells have priority on all platforms?

I've only used Kraken & Bitstamp so far, and I plan to do the next moves on Bitfinex. While it's obvious that Kraken will be frozen at the time of the fork, I hope that Bitfinex doesn't have the same problem. Now, while Kraken simply breaks in those cases, I can understand a platform accepting all orders without complaining, but still processing them with high lag.

Yeah then you of course should leave it on the platform.

Cashing out your losses at the end of the day isn't necessarily the best idea, though.
I don't even think it's safer, especially with altcoins, where you can double but also half your bet within a few hours.

It means it's more safe to hold your currency locally, in a hardware wallet, than trusting an online service to do it for you. One that can be hacked or go out of business, or be a scam. They're not as reliable as large banks (which themselves proved not to be so reliable either)

So it means when you're not actively trading but holding it for years/months.
Of course you can also screw up holding your bitcoins yourself, but then it's your own fault.

I can imagine the B2X getting way different values at the time of release, on different platforms.
I mean, arbitraging will take time (assuming some people will be doing that), while many will probably sell it as soon as they can.

Anyone thinks one specific platform will end up trading it higher, and why?
Or anyone sees a good reason to hold it, for how long, if not forever?


Additionnally, when selling during a fall, whether it'll be BTC or B2X, do you use limit or market orders? I'm a bit scared that a market order will end up selling for very low, in the case everyone does it at the very same time (like for the BTG) and buyers haven't adjusted yet, is it best to use a limit order there? (& what do you estimate to be a sane limit for this predicted dip?)

Because I prefer to play things safe, I had sold mine way before the BTG. Watched the dip realtime, it was fun to watch as it happened within seconds. Then I bought back when it was safe enough. Wasn't interested in the BTG.

And I wanted to do this again. Problem, again because I prefer to play things safe, I sold BTC's many times during the rise, thinking it would fall anytime. A day before this fall of 400 I hardly had any BTC left, and then I screwed up thinking "hey looks like it's still safe".
So I didn't fully enjoy the rise, which is why I'm scared by fully enjoying the fall, taking me into the red if it falls back to where it was 2 weeks ago. And it must be worse for those who bought their first BTC's above 7000usd.
So I don't like having to be part of a predicted massive sell, but I'm afraid I will have to.

Oh boy, don't use Kraken if you wanna trade. If you wanna buy once & forget, yeah you will find times when it works.
If you wanna trade during hot moments of a rise or dip, you can pretty much forget Kraken.