What part of they don't control the entire transfer process don't people understand? Mt.Gox must work with other banks to transfer fiat. The old legacy banking system is lethargic, inefficient, cumbersome and over regulated. That's a reason Bitcoin is so valuable.
Well, the fact that Mt. Gox is running a business and engaged in a large number of transfers with reasonable delays on withdrawing funds may form an implicit contract to do the same in the future. Particularly since they do not warn potential BTC sellers on their site that there will now be _much_ longer delays in withdrawals. That means Mt. Gox is responsible for the delay and damages due to the delay, regardless of the underlying cause. |
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I try to collect facts, and to help people do smart decisions based on the facts. Nothing else. I also have a considerable amount invested in Bitcoin, and I run a small Bitcoin business myself. And I do arbitrage between MtGox and other exchanges like most other people posting here.
Yes, and that is a big service in the present circumstances. Of course, Mt. Gox should post estimates on their website and these facts to warn potential sellers. Thanks for gathering this information. |
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Mt.Gox doesn't owe anyone the ability to sell BTC for fiat cash. If someone bought BTC then that's their decision to invest in that asset.
Well that is the business they purport to be in. They should be transparent about the actual withdrawals delays and provide estimates based on the current queue. A person who had traded with them before these problems and then sold BTC on Mt. Gox before these problems developed and are clearly stated on their website has a valid complaint against them. Based on all past experience one would expect that they would continue to withdraw in a reasonable timeframe, say, 2-3 business days. 8 weeks isn't even close to a "reasonable" timeframe. |
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But your last post...
Would you be kind engouh to explain me how can you defend that hard MtGox without having done any SEPA withdrawal before?
Yes, that is sort of incredible. But I guess the characteristics of the speaker don't logically have anything to do with the truth or falsity of their statements. |
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Next Phoenix Bitcoin meetup will be the meetup at Cafe Altura (in the food court of the Fiesta Mall, near US 60 and Alma School) on September 4th, 7-9 PM. Our speaker with be Drew Phillips who will will discuss BitcoinNotBombs.
Cafe Altura is accepting BTC for payments generally, and during this event a 20% discount to all members, as well as free brewed coffee. Please join us.
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It will get there. My guess would be within a few months.
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How the hell does anyone use it or know how to price things in it?! Why do people trust it when it's value can plummet like that at any time?  If you are going to hold BTC for any period, make sure it is based on a belief in the long term value of BTC as a currency that allows you to send any amount to anyone anywhere in the world in about 10 minutes. |
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Page 50 of this thread iirc..
I see a report of a USD withdrawal there, but no date given. Looks like people are reporting June 17th transfer still pending. What is that now, 8 or 9 weeks. A far cry from the 2 weeks which Gox support will claim in their initial response to inquiries about this matter. While I agree that ongoing withdrawals in other currencies argue against insolvency, this is not the behavior of a responsible business. |
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What are the latest dates people have received USD via wire transfer?
I have several confirmed for a few weeks now and assume it will be a while yet.
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It's sickening how unprofessional Gox is. When you have millions of people's dollars in limbo, you should be posting an update every single day, as well as a clear warning on their site of the current situation for new investors.
While it is true that Mt. Gox is trusted, and can't discuss ongoing litigation, there are at least 3 things they should be doing as a responsible business. 1. Being transparent about the situation. Tell the customers what the delays are and what the limitations are. 2. Paying interest on delays of withdrawals. It is not right to keep hundreds of thousands of other people's money, without their explicit consent, and not at least pay them interest. Why should Mt. Gox be able to keep interest they earn on other people's funds when that wasn't in their original service agreement or the implicit agreement that was formed by prior operations. 3. Openly offer priority withdrawals, for a fee, if they are available. The idea of having an NDA to find out what the fees are makes everyone wonder what sneaky thing is going on here. |
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Heard back from Patrick Murck, and he said the idea of holding a meet-n-greet sounds like a blast. Will work out a specific time when the event gets closer. Wahoo! =)
Would we actually want to hold an extra meetup that month at that hotel? |
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Yes I am also running into this with a localbitcoins address.
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the main difference between a legit business and a money launderer is if their morals are low enough to not care if the funds they deal with are 'dirty' proceeds of crime.
Or perhaps if their principles are high enough that they don't believe the government should be snooping in everyone's life and business. |
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CampBX if you can wait and the volume works for you. Localbitcoins if you need them pronto or a Satoshi Square if there is one in your area.
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If you can afford to wait 8 weeks, it is not a bad deal.
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No person with many millions to spent would invest in this unless they had a reason to believe the government would NOT shut them down. Only a foolish billionaire could afford to gamble as you propose. Only an insane person would start a business with the intent to sue the federal or state governments.
I think the point would be to start a small exchange cheaply. You are correct, one can't spend a lot on this, because it likely will end up in court, and the legal bills will be bad enough. Only an insane person would start a business with the intent to sue the federal or state governments.
The business wouldn't sue anyone. The federal or state government would have to come after it. I think the idea would be to get support from the community for doing precisely this as a challenge. |
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So who knows a lawyer in japan? I'm starting to get tired of this.
Has anyone received a withdrawal in the last two weeks? This is getting ridiculous. Another avenue might be to contact the equivalent of the secretary of state in Tokyo and the bank regulators in Japan. |
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I've been wondering lately what might be the best way to legally challenge regulation of BTC exchanges in the US. Clearly, a large operating business can ill afford to be shut down, and so those have been scrambling to figure out how to stay roughly in compliance with FinCEN guidance.
One idea seems like it could be setting up an exchange which will plan on presenting a challenge by only obeying what the law appears to be as written, interpreted in the most favorable light for the exchange. This process would seem to have a few implications.
1. It may need to be only a cash<->BTC exchange. Any interface with the banking system will likely collapse under the slightest regulatory pressure, unless an organization like the IAFCU would be willing to serve as the bank.
2. Legal venue seems like it should be in a state where either there is no MSB regulation, or alternately, where BTC would not be subject to such regulation based on the definition of currency and money used in that state.
3. It should have sufficient assets isolated from any seizable deposit accounts to be able to make any transactions whole in the event of a legal attack.
4. It should plan on a legal fight and having sufficient funds for such a fight as well as good legal representation.
5. It should be operated as a corporation to provide limited liability to the operators.
What are people's thoughts on the feasibility and method of setting up such an exchange.
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I have tried signing up with IAFCU and haven't received any response. Are they still in business? just swamped?
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