There will be a drop in hashrate when all the asic erupters become uneconomic in about 6 weeks.
The problem is, by that time, they will account for such a small percentage of the system, the drop will not be noticed.
I can see that being a gradual fade out. I can also see many of them continue to run, making money for the electric company rather than the owners. |
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the main idea seems to be stop people who have amassed vast sums of wealth from converting all of that into BTC where the authorities cannot get at it, and then fleeing the country...
The significant part of that is fleeing the country. I pretty sure China requires its citizens to get an exit visa. Having all that wealth is worthless if you can't leave the country and spend it. |
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Just curious, for those that pay attention to the pool stats,
Does the pool hashrate ever drop during a significant price drop in btc? I've seen it drop after a few long rounds, but nothing related to price.
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The trading volume in Chinese exchanges so large is because they provided FREE TRADE. actually, it is not so many trades. And in my view, 99% Chinese "investors" is speculating in short-term trades. And in China, it is no use of bitcoin except speculating. Of course, it is caused by gov banned business to accept btc.
I'm just trying to understand the Chinese situation, for instance, are mainland Chinese citizens allowed to visit Hong Kong and participate in that economy as a tourist? Do the same restrictions apply in the Shanghai trade zone? When you trade on a Chinese exchange for speculation, are you actually allowed to withdrawal in BTC? Are there underground street-level bitcoin/Yaun traders? Also, what is feel for if/when the Chinese government will ease up on currency restrictions? |
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If the IRS is suspicious, they might ask who did you buy it from. If you don't know, but you can show that when you bought the $500 btc earlier in the year, that was the going rate for 1 btc, then later about $1200 was the going rate for 1 btc, they will probably accept that. I doubt they will ever care about a 'blockchain' or anything like that.
It will take cases brought to court to answer the question, but I think IRS auditors will accept a record of a transaction on the block chain as a valid receipt. Paper receipts are easily counterfeited. A knowledgeable IRS auditor will realize that a confirmed blockchain transaction is a much harder receipt than a paper receipt. They may want confirmation from the receiving party before fully validating it, but they definitely won't be asking the coffee shop. |
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Don't sell to anyone who mentions anything illegal they would be doing with the coins and you are fine.
If the buyer is like, "Yeah, I'm gunna head over to the darknet and buy some stolen CC numbers as soon as I get my hands on these coins," Don't sell. Duh.
I just don't get why these Florida defendants would even go through with the deals, when someone started talking like that. The entrapment deals did involve unusually high amounts of money though. If I were a face-to-face bitcoin dealer, I'd probably stick with a self-imposed rule of $500/day per person, for my own personal safety, as well as being below the reporting requirements for a federal Suspicious Activities Report. |
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Didnt even need to read all that
Here is a simple solution for you, cops are supposed to say yes when you ask "are you a cop"?
Just ask everytime you meet a local trader.
(sigh) You really need to educate yourself on that issue. Completely wrong. |
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...to live in this society, you must obey laws that you may not agree with to keep from going to jail. Raise your hand if you've downloaded any music, movies, or TV shows lately. *raises hand* If you have, you've been breaking the law. Have you gone to jail for it? I haven't. If I did, would I admit to it on an open forum? Probably not. If I did participate in that activity, would I use a VPN located in another country to protect myself? Probably. Would I admit to sending some spare satoshis to the donation btc address on piratebay.se which resolves to ip address 194.71.107.15? Probably not. |
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There are some things that I believe in that are not libertarian, for instance, I believe there should be subsidies to get broadband internet service to every rural household in America, just as there was for telephone service and electricity. I'm against subsidies not because I don't support the end sought (broadband for rural folks), but because subsidies distort markets and are fundamentally anti-competitive. The sentiment is just as wrong as "Every person should own a home" or "Every person should have their college loans paid for" both of which have had disastrous results. Personally, I, as an urban dweller, see broadband internet as means for rural dweller to not remain backwards and ignorant, and get exposed to other views. Instead, they are led by the nose by two of the richest oligarch brothers in America through shadowy "grass roots" organizations that they fund from their Upper West Side penthouse in Manhattan, and they get them to vote against their own self-interests. They have an extreme hatred for heathcare.gov, even though they've never seen the website and objectively made up their minds. But that's just me. Without a subsidy to jump start the investment needed in infra-structure, rural dwellers are going to wait a long, long time until the free market solution finally allows them access. Meanwhile, the urban dwellers have the advantage of the information economy, and they don't and society stratifies. I believe that people and corporations should be made to account for degrading the environment without paying for it (socializing a cost), while making a profit. Libertarians are pro-property rights, so dumping waste onto others' property or the commons is a big no-no. The argument is about the solution: whether it be central control, or whether it be by privatizing the commons (like has been done with fish stocks) or pigouvian taxes. Libertarians generally prefer the latter because it avoids creating another tragedy of the commons: ensuring the regulatory apparatus is not captured. I strongly believe in Pigouvian taxes on the dirty energy industry, as it would quickly provide a free market solution to develop the clean energy industry (and get America ahead of the rest of the world in this regard). But I thought the word "tax" was a dirty word with libertarians. |
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A study examining Somalia’s performance relative to other African countries both when Somalia had a government and during its extended period of anarchy found that Somalia, when subjected to an honest comparison between Somalia when it had a functioning government, and Somalia now is less poor, has higher life expectancy, and has experienced a drastic increase in telephone lines.
Perhaps the influx of income from ransom and piracy had something to do with it? |
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The Somali argument is such complete nonsense. It's in sub-saharan Africa. Pretty much every country in that region is poor and violent. Heck, Zimbabwe is an even worse basketcase and it's a socialist country. What does that really prove?
So if you don't want the libertarian utopia that is Somalia because somehow they are not worthy due to being located in sub-saharan Africa, what type of government would you impose on these poor and violent people? Is not the libertarian ideal the perfect system to generate wealth? Do or do not large amounts of guns create a polite society and lower the crime rate? That's a real stretch... My point exactly. - The Libertarian system does not generate wealth by itself in the same manner that an aqueduct won't hydrate a farm without first connecting to a water supply.
Then, what is the system of government needed to create the water supply if libertarianism is going to cut it? You are a hypothetical benign dictator, you choose. - The amount of guns is not the primary determining factor for "politeness" or crime rate. The distribution of those guns within society is certainly a major factor. When you decentralize gun ownership you decrease crime. A Bitcoiner should grasp that concept because the rule equally applies to the creation of money.
So, "socialize" the distribution of guns? Anybody that has the money or submits to service to one of the many warlords there can get a gun. There's no government there saying you can't get a gun. I'm just not getting your point. |
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The Somali argument is such complete nonsense. It's in sub-saharan Africa. Pretty much every country in that region is poor and violent. Heck, Zimbabwe is an even worse basketcase and it's a socialist country. What does that really prove?
So if you don't want the libertarian utopia that is Somalia because somehow they are not worthy due to being located in sub-saharan Africa, what type of government would you impose on these poor and violent people? Is not the libertarian ideal the perfect system to generate wealth? Do or do not large amounts of guns create a polite society and lower the crime rate? |
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Daytrading has wasted my last 3 years, its amazing how much time we spend on 'hope' when we could just be doing something, producing something of value, offering a service, learning something new,etc. Trying to make money I didnt earn has been a wakeup,. Not bashing anyone,but this is worse than gambling, because families lose out when you cash in, not a casino. Every extra piece of pie is on that came off someone elses plate.
I feel for you on your losses today, but seriously when did you think day trading wasn't gambling? Some people are good at it, some people aren't. I like gambling as well, but I know enough not to "invest" the rent or grocery money on gambling. I really like bitcoin, but I still keep 2/3rd of my fungible assets as cash. I saw about a grand worth of USD evaporate today on my bitcoin holdings, but I've seen it go up as fast as it goes down. If I really couldn't do without that grand, I wouldn't have bought bitcoin with it. Bitcoin is going to be very volatile until the tipping point where commerce is greater than speculation. I think American companies like Coinbase and Bitpay are going to make this happen in the USA. Americans are much too libertarian to allow a government crackdown on bitcoin. For example, there's horrific mass shootings in the news, yet it is impossible to institute regulations that the attempt to prohibit the mentally ill and criminals from buying guns. Do really think they can outlaw bitcoin just to keep some kid from buying drugs online? Im done. The only way I've broke even is rapid selling at dishonestly high increases for payment methods that scream "Minor buying drugs on Silk Road" (would else would pay 25% over?), now that fed has btc on the books, turns out theres a good chance they created it (Yes Dorian is the creator, care to acknowledge who he was working for at the time??) to create financial criminals out of average citizens, to play a role in the destruction of the dollar and help bring about new currency laws [which will make owning untrackable currency illegal], I dont need the IRS knocking on my door 10 years from now over some legal-financial technicality no current legal team would understand, but thats exactly what I see coming out of the whole ordeal. The United States government has shown us all that they criminalize income more than anything.
The US government had a hand in designing Tor as well. The purpose was to protect and enable political dissidents in countries that we feel morally superior to. There's nothing about bitcoin that makes it inherently criminal. If you are a US citizen, by law you have to pay your taxes. You have to pay your taxes on making money trading gold, silver, bitcoin, or some bullshit stock. You should know the rules when you leave a W2 job. Even criminals (the smart ones, at least) know how to at least look like they are playing by the rules ever since Al Capone went down on tax evasion. BTW, you should know if you make an honest mistake in your tax return, the statute of limitations is only 7 years (the amount of time you need to store your records). There's a longer limitation if you did something criminal (willfully made a fraudulent statement on your tax return) that requires a criminal conviction (proved beyond a reasonable doubt). |
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Sure, I see a lot more posts in here by clueless people who worship at the alter of big government. More as it has gone more mainstream.
Respectfully, I realize that you and many people here are libertarians, and you believe that your particular philosophy is the only correct one for the world. I am sympathetic to many libertarian ideas, but there are things that just do not work when taken to the extreme. I think bitcoin is a great idea, because it removes control of a currency or a currency-like system away from the control of a central government. However, I am a pragmatist, and to live in this society, you must obey laws that you may not agree with to keep from going to jail. There are some things that I believe in that are not libertarian, for instance, I believe there should be subsidies to get broadband internet service to every rural household in America, just as there was for telephone service and electricity. I believe in the right of a group of people to band together and bargain for higher wages and safety standards with a large company or corporation. I believe that people and corporations should be made to account for degrading the environment without paying for it (socializing a cost), while making a profit. An extreme libertarian utopia does exist at present: It is called Somalia. A nearly non-existent central government, no regulations, no taxes, and lots and lots of guns. I personally have no desire to live there. |
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It's not just "on paper" when a coffee shop needs to spend a few thousand dollars on accounting every year just to be able to accept Bitcoin.
I'd like that job. A few thousand for maybe 15-30 minutes of work? (to generate an income/capital gains report) |
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So every time I spend bitcoin, I need to:
1) Keep track of how much fiat I used to buy the bitcoins originally
2) How much the item costs in fiat
3) Figure out when I bought what bitcoins and when
4) Calculate the capital gain based on the difference between the item and the purchase price of the coins
5) Repeat steps 1-4 every time I spend Bitcoin
6) Calculate my total gained / lost from every transaction at the end of the year.
7) Report this amount on my tax form, including proof of every transaction in the event of an audit
Sounds like a computer program to me, and something a computer could do for you automatically. Do you have one? Dear IRS, I have a computer that can transact funds using this new-fangled cryptocurrency technology, but I am unable to make it keep track of those transactions for tax purposes. There's no public record of those transactions anywhere in cyberspace. |
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Im not anti-government, nor am i trying to dodge paying my dues, but i dont like to trade on an exchange, you know how much money i lost on mt-gox? $0. Do you know how much i will lose on bitstamp when it gets hacked? $0. Now the IRS is in effect saying, you had better use those services or else we will hit you with a full-taxable amount, that is not fair, nor is it reasonable to presume a small time speculator like myself would have the ability to produce solid evidence of a p2p trade. In fact, its not reasonable to presume anyone has the ability to provide evidence of a p2p trade, this is no more possible than if you sold something on craigslist to a stranger for cash and then get audited and asked the details of the transaction, who was the buyer? prove that you sold the item in question and not illegal drugs or stolen property. This is no different, they arent taxing bitcoin, they are effective threatening the entire bitcoin community with fines and jailtime for doing anything that isnt registered with the government. This is what i mean when i say deanonymized, its not hiding, its having nothing to hide from.
The tax law never fundamentally changed, the IRS has laid claimed a portion of your income since before you were born. You accepted that responsibility by choosing to be born here. The invention of bitcoin never changed those laws. If you had engaged in another type of economic activity, such as trading pink sheet stocks or some other niche commodity, you would be legally obligated to report your capital gains from that activity. The IRS would still require you to document your trades, if you wished to defend yourself in an audit. Dealing with bitcoin isn't fundamentally different from that. It may seem like a onerous requirement to calculate capital gains on all your bitcoin transactions, but they are going to have apps for that that combine your wallet data with historical market data. It will probably print you a form showing your short term and long term capital gains, and you keep the wallet data for your records, in case of audit. It's not that much different than having an interest-bearing money market account and reporting the gains via the form that the institution administering the account sends you at tax time. Same thing for an "interest-bearing" bitcoin account, except there's no bank or institution administering it for you -- that's become your responsibility. |
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No one pointed out the big purple elephant thats staring down its big trunk at bitcoin taxation, how can any of us including the IRS prove one way or another that the owner of an address that transacted years ago for a sum of bitcoin was in fact you? Perhaps if you were on an exchange in which you identified yourself, they would report this and it would be tied to you, but for all the other exchange methods that do not require or have no way of proving ones identity, what proof could any of us offer?
Now lets say instead of wanting to be taxed at the 25%-40% short-term capital gains rates you wanted to be taxed at the 15% long-term capital gains rates, instead of pointing to the addresses holding the coins you bought 6 months ago you could point way back in the blockchain (provided the purported gains did not offset the tax savings) and claim those were your bitcoins you bought from a guy on a forum. They demand proof, what proof? There is no proof, no way of proving that those coins were owned by you, does that mean they will then tax you at whatever rate they wish because there is no way to prove something? I dont know, do we all face maximum taxation unless we register our identities on an exchange?
I really don't think the IRS is going to care about the addresses where you store your bitcoins. What they will be looking at is large reported purchases made with bitcoin, or large amounts of cash coming into your bank account (a bank following KYC/AML laws) from an exchange. If you can't prove the source, then it will all get taxed. There's no innocent til proven guilty in tax court. Think of it like cash. If you have sizable unexplained deposits to your bank account, or you buy a house with a duffel bag full of cash, the tax man will want to know what is going on. |
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Bitcoin makes taxes more... consentual. Are they going to freeze your BTC if you don't pay? They may imprison you, but they still won't get your precious cyber coins!
I think that depends on where you store your bitcoins. I'm still scratching my head wondering why Silk Road mastermind Ross Ulbricht would keep his personal wallet of $80 million USD worth of btc on the same same laptop on which he used to administer silk road, only a password dictionary attack away from seizure. |
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