The problem is, enslaved humanity is more efficient than any proposed free society. We have to face this fact (which is actually adverted in the video possibly unintentionally) head on. You can focus the whole power of an enslaved group to a single purpose. That's what enslavement is useful for. The "slave owners" don't accumulate the money and convert it to endless happiness in heaven. They are also ordinary agents with arbitrary purposes. I especially dislike the notion of "selfishness" or "greed" being used to explain motivations of the people on the top (or anyone else for that matter). There are no mystical facts about the agents themselves. The main problem threatening freedom in its most abstract form is not what the purpose is, but that very powerful foci are possible. You can even solve a problem of science by throwing educated people at it. So, how does a free group, which has vectors pointing all over the place, compete with a group with one single vector? To me, the answer is, at least at this point, "they can't". What we can do is to live among those people, try to push the system to a point we're comfortable with (free speech, cheap computers, etc.). We can't expect the bulk of the population to ever "wake up". We might inspire people to become like us, but we can't expect to get noticed by the system and not get destroyed. Am I being too pessimistic? You hit the argument to the video head on. The libertarian/anarchistic moral structure is that it is better to solve problems with nonviolence, yet it is sometimes beneficial and more efficient to solve problems with violence. The strong try to conquer the weak. If people can get away with it, they will lie, cheat, and steal. The weak can assemble to become strong, but then they conquer the new weak players. This is how the world works. |
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A wise man once said.
"What is the mark of liberation? No longer being ashamed in front of oneself."
Nietzche also said Morality is herd instinct in the individual. |
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I have a scientific background, I just don't want to wave it around.
Waving it around or not, you should at least try and seem like you have a scientific background if you're going to pontificate so clumsily on scientific matters. The result of our conversation went like this: Pollutant: A substance or condition that contaminates air, water, or soil. Pollutants can be artificial substances, such as pesticides and PCBs, or naturally occurring substances, such as oil or carbon dioxide, that occur in harmful concentrations in a given environment. Heat transmitted to natural waterways through warm-water discharge from power plants and uncontained radioactivity from nuclear wastes are also considered pollutants.
I don't recognize the free dictionary as an authoritative source. However, your statements are still logically disconnected. We pollute -> AGW is real does not follow. It's irrelevant what you recognize as an authoritative source if you can't identify accurate definitions. Try the publication known as Nature. Not Atlas Shrugs, Richard Lindzen, or other such libertarian sources whose agenda is suspect with regard to scientific study. Anything with an -ism is cult-like. This is what happens to cult followers, they blind themselves to anything that might invalidate their belief system. |
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Why can't they be taught the truth? reminds me of the stupid program I did in grade school that they taught us about drugs. All they pretty much said over and over is drugs are bad and they will kill you.
Well. You try weed.. It's not so bad. Maybe they lied about all the drugs?
They should have taught you logic in school instead of about drugs. "They say killing is bad, I ate a hamburger which is from a killed cow, so maybe what they taught me about killing is wrong." What is the truth about sex and drugs? Is it really a professional teacher's job to do teach a child something that any other human being (like a parent) could teach a child? |
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No this is incorrect, there is another group of people besides those that have received double payments or those that have not submitted a claim to GLBSE that are not in the asset list provided by Nefario. These are people, like me, who have submitted a claim and not received a double payment, yet are still not listed in the asset lists. Do your homework before acting like Nefario's parrot. |
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Before busting out the champaign, everyone that thinks they should be on the asset list needs to ask the issuers to check that they are actually on the list.
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Why don't you start your own thread and close it yourself?
Hm, you may be right. I've just thought there was no point in keeping "Possible claims process..." open while Nefario had started to send asset data to issuers. Yes, I should have asked you, the OP, to close the thread. So, do as you wish. [/quote I would hold off on your wide-eyed support for Nefario and his ability to do claims process. There has been reports or problems with the assets. On the GLBSE blog it claims: GIGAMINING
BITBOND
YABMC
FPGAMINING
PUREMINING
YARR
COGNITIVE
BTC-MINING
ZETA-MINING
IBB
These lists are not 100% complete, users who have not claimed their GLBSE account, and users who have not returned the double payment of bitcoin have not been included. These lists are not 100% complete, but not for the reason Nefario states. There are people that did not receive a double payment and have claimed their GLBSE accounts. In fact my name is not on any issuer's list although I received my bitcoins still in th eaccount and I did not receive double payments. |
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School is for learning how to read, write and do math. Anything else should be learned in the real world by experience or by family or friends.
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For those not wanting to go through this process, why not hire a proxy to make the claims. All GLBSE gave giga was email and bitcoin address and the total number of units held.
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KEEP IN MIND AT ALL TIMES -- shares purchased on this stock exchange simulation do not entitle you to legal real-world rights to a listed virtual company as you would expect from a real company. Deal breaker for me. Buy imaginary companies with imaginary tokens from an imaginary currency. This means anyone can scam a user and not have to face consequences. I think it would be best to wait for the JOBS act to be implemented and go from there. Most of the "companies" on glbse were imaginary and in fact so was glbse itself. Tell me one actual listing that was a real registered company in any jurisdiction in the world ? A company does not have to be registered to be 'real'. All someone has to do is conduct business under a name and that is a company. It might be breaking the law by soliciting investments from the public, but that does not make it any less real. When I started to use GLBSE I treated it as a game that if lost it is no big deal, but many people treated it as real exchange. It can't be both ways, a bitcoin is either something that has value or it doesn't. As for exchanges that will use imaginary chips/bits, there are many illegal casinos in America that will not exchange their USD for chips. Instead they go next door and exchange their money for chips, then walk into the 'fantasy casino'. If the player wins, they can take their chips out of the casino and go next door and exchange their chips for their money. It doesn't make it any less illegal and the police is fine with shutting down both operations. |
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(To moderators: I'm sorry for crossposting this, but it is of great interest for many people. I think this thread should be closed with an indication of "GLBSE Payment Claims (Announce your payment here)" thread.)
Why don't you start your own thread and close it yourself? |
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KEEP IN MIND AT ALL TIMES -- shares purchased on this stock exchange simulation do not entitle you to legal real-world rights to a listed virtual company as you would expect from a real company. Deal breaker for me. Buy imaginary companies with imaginary tokens from an imaginary currency. This means anyone can scam a user and not have to face consequences. I think it would be best to wait for the JOBS act to be implemented and go from there. |
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I wonder why Nef pulled that feature.
He wouldn't even have needed to code up anything new if he'd just left that in. =/
It is very likely that Nefario is trying to modify the share number balance and steal some shares and funds from the users. Or he had already decided not to return the asset info and money at the very beginning. I've met Nefario and he came across as being very honest and trustworthy. Not at any time did I think this guy was dodgy or even grey-area. I have nothing to gain and everything to loose for commenting on his character as such. I am glad you trust Nefario but he has lost a lot of trust with other people. I don't think oversight is uncalled for in this situation. |
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Isn't 2550 of the 10420 up for sale with no buyer?
I was not on GLBSE for the last few days before the shutdown, so I do not know how many were still for sale. If you have this information it'd be most helpful. This is a great thing to hear.
Also, is there any plans to make Cognitive a legitimate company and avoid the current security exchanges until the crowdfunding laws are up and running?
Optimally, that is what I want to happen. I have no absolute plan as of now (I don't believe any of the assets do), and I will be researching and presenting a plan in the coming weeks. Anyone who wants to help with this process is more than welcome to! Cheers, Garrett I can help out. You have my email address, so whatever you need let me know. |
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I did not realize someone could get a scammer tag even if they attempted to scam someone else. I always thought the scam had to be committed and someone lost bitcoins or some other valuable resource.
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This morning I received a partial list of shareholders! As of now only 4378 of the 10420 shares issues are accounted for, which is great, but we still have a ways to go. I will be sending a mass email asking shareholders to make an exchange account (likely at http://BTCT.co ) once we get more shares accounted for. I'll be updating you as I am updated... Best, Garrett This is a great thing to hear. Also, is there any plans to make Cognitive a legitimate company and avoid the current security exchanges until the crowdfunding laws are up and running? |
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For the time being lets assume James McCarthy will never send the asset information.
Does anyone else have any ideas for a claims process?
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Getting the popcorn ready for the spectacular failure of attempts to distribute shares by "claims" which can't in any way be proven. That should provide sufficient drama supplies to last us at the very least through the winter.
Hey everyone, I am also becoming more skeptical of Nefarious (get the pun?) activities by the minute... so, as always, I'm open to all suggestions. Stochastic, your plan would work well if all humans were genuine, honest people, but unfortunately that is not so. If we can find a way to link GLBSE history with blockchain data, this would be a good solution only for people who have a recent backup. I'm going to make the fair assumption that most people do not. Regardless, we may as well start gathering data; it can't hurt. So please send everything you have to claims@cognitivemining.com whether it be a highly modifiable spreadsheet or a highly modifiable screenshot. Please include your GLBSE username, email associated with GLBSE, (estimated) number of shares owned, and a bitcoin address. Please don't consider my attitude on the matter pessimistic, I'm trying to be a realist. We simply will not be able to recover all shareholder data via the mentioned methods, which will probably be legally unfair. Sure you could argue that you performed your due diligence and others did not, but others will always try to combat this. I'll be asking around for information regarding this. I want to solve this problem in the best interest of everyone involved, obviously. Sorry if this post is pretty scrambled, I'm thinking about quite a few things right now... Best, Garrett We can't punish everyone because some people may be dishonest. The recover process has to happens sometime and somehow. Is there a PGP key we can encrypt our data with so the information is for your eyes only? |
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Something has to be done.. Personally I have several csv exports for my orders and a screenshot of my portfolio page just after the site was shut down. The problem is that we must convince the share issuers to accept such claims, since now gigavps does not. Another point will be maybe a warning for future scams that if/when Nefario release that information any account with scam attempt will be closed or something like this. Only the open buy/sell orders will be a issue.
I am sure the large asset issuers are only concerned with the process as this process for claims may take a very long time to process in their case. I image the initial check could be automated. 1. import the account history csv 2. check that the funds are in balance (i.e. there is no negative btc balance in the account history). 3. confirm the bitcoin address in the account history files I don't think it is unnecessary to wait 3 months from the time GLBSE shut down to expect to have the asset information, but there is not a reason that asset issuers might start collecting the claim information. Then after that 3 months give up on Nefario and do this process. |
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I recall someone mentioning they were still able to retrieve their account history .csv from GLBSE. Does someone remember the link to do so?
+1 Can someone who downloaded the CSV please go through their browser history and provide the link? If nefario somehow left this functionality up and working, then we may have a way to pull down claims and verify them for people willing to give up their GLBSE login/password info to a trusted 3rd party. Grab one of the people that are trusted to do escrow and have them download and validate the CSV's... This is a great idea, but I have not heard of it being up. I know a lot of people wanted to get their history but could not. |
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