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2061  Economy / Securities / Re: Now seeking investors for BitCorp Mining Company on: September 26, 2011, 05:43:09 PM
If you buy 1 share of BitCO for 8 BTC, you will be entitled to .1 BTC per month in dividends, or 1.2 BTC per year.  That is a 15% yield per annum.  Any serious investor will tell you that type of yield is very high.  However, since this is a brand new concept, we are comfortable pricing the shares at 8 and offering such an attractive yield.  We feel it will be beneficial to the Bitcoin community.  

No, it is too low. SERIOUSLY too low.

This is a high risk investment with a high risk of loosing the value after half or one year of return. THis is not a guaranteed bond by someone with a balance sheet. This i not an investment into a significantly growing business. I wont touch that with my investment side, sorry. Not for a yearly 15% yield. Make that 150% and w can talk - then after half a year I recouped most of my investment.

Why would we give away the company like that?  If we are going to pay a 150% yield, we will keep the shares to ourselves. 

Strange people who come out to comment indeed. 
2062  Economy / Securities / Re: Now seeking investors for BitCorp Mining Company on: September 26, 2011, 04:09:13 PM


Our monthly production will exceed 150 BTC.

But the mining reward gets cut in half in ~1yr. I'm guessing the dividends will be cut in half as well..?

It is a concern, but we (like many people), are hoping that transaction fees will make up some of the shortfall.

Also, we hope to have expanded the operation enough to offset some of the 50% drop in rewards. 

2063  Economy / Securities / Re: Now seeking investors for BitCorp Mining Company on: September 26, 2011, 04:07:11 PM
Quote
The office buildings we are in have pooled utility expense, so our increase in cost is barely perceptible.

Welp, there's the sleaziness every bitcoin operation has to have.  Most miners have 50-75% of their revenue eaten up by their power bills, but you've managed to negate this problem by spreading the cost to others without their consent.  I'm sure the other businesses in your building(s) would love to know you're running a dozen computers at full power drain 24 hours a day.

Have you projected how long it will take you to get solvent? (remember, revenue =/= profit, common bitcoin mistake) How will you handle the price of bitcoins going down, and the difficulty going up?

How is it sleazy at all?  I have a 5 year lease agreement that very clearly lays out what is allowed.  We are absolutely in compliance with that agreement.
 
I love how people just assume to know everything. 

We are already solvent, so I am not sure what your question is.  Are you asking how long it will take us to pay off our capital investment? 

Like we have said a few times already, the price of BTC/USD is not a primary focus for us.  We seek to mine BTC, take investment in BTC, and pay dividends in BTC.  The obsession with the exchange rate by some people is completely missing the point of what we are trying to accomplish here. 

Finally, last time I checked the difficulty has dropped 3 or 4 times in a row.  It is our belief that we have hit a ceiling in terms of difficulty increases. 
2064  Economy / Securities / Re: Now seeking investors for BitCorp Mining Company on: September 26, 2011, 04:01:58 PM
tbh i didnt read

LOL....well see, there ya go! 

didnt read your replys i meant. goes on and on and on... but seriously learn about shares


ROFLMAO.  Once again, your initial post shows you have no clue what you are talking about.  Move on loser. 
2065  Economy / Securities / Re: Now seeking investors for BitCorp Mining Company on: September 26, 2011, 03:46:34 PM
tbh i didnt read

LOL....well see, there ya go! 
2066  Economy / Securities / Re: Now seeking investors for BitCorp Mining Company on: September 26, 2011, 01:00:34 AM
You really dont understand how shares work do you? You cant set the price of the shares as you wish, by saying 0.1btc per share with 1000 shares, your automatically valueing your "company" at 100btc... for what exactly? you dont have anything.

Since Alfalfa pointed out that I can be fairly condescending is my responses, I will go easy on this one.  Really though, your post is silly.

To say I don't understand how shares work, considering what I do for a living outside of Bitcoin, is stupid.  If you would take the time to read the proposal, or had any knowledge of how share sales actually work, you would see how off-base you are.

When a company offers shares to the public for the first time, they absolutely set an acceptable range for pricing.  In terms if valuing the company, you really did not read a bit of the proposal did you?  .1 BTC is what the monthly dividend will be set at, not what we are willing to sell shares for.  

Finally, we don't have anyting?  What in God's name are you talking about?  We have a hardware investment of over $7,000 and monthly BTC production in excess of 150 BTC.  How exactly is that having nothing?

Seriously, if you don't take the time to educate yourself on the matter, just don't post.    



I think the point that the other poster was trying to make is that you seem to have valued your company at $42,800 (based on the current BTC of 5.35) without offering support for that figure.  Based on your numbers, monthly revenue from mining would be ~ $802 with 10% of that amount being returned to shareholders.  Projected earnings don't justify the $40,000+ valuation and neither does your capital investment to date, so the question  of how you arrived at that figure is not an unreasonable one.

I completely agree valuation is a legitimate conversation to have, I just would like the person asking to have the figures correct first.

lets talk about it for a second.  Again, I think even you are a mis-interpreting what we are proposing.

Lets talk exclusively in terms of BTC, as that is what we are truly interested in.  We are not trying to get rich here, we simply want to create a truly legitimate BTC investment.  

Our monthly production will exceed 150 BTC.  By paying out .1 BTC per share, PER MONTH, we are in reality paying out roughly 66% (100 BTC) of monthly revenue, not 10% as you claim.  Right there, any valuation analysis you present subsequent to that assumption will be deeply flawed.

If you buy 1 share of BitCO for 8 BTC, you will be entitled to .1 BTC per month in dividends, or 1.2 BTC per year.  That is a 15% yield per annum.  Any serious investor will tell you that type of yield is very high.  However, since this is a brand new concept, we are comfortable pricing the shares at 8 and offering such an attractive yield.  We feel it will be beneficial to the Bitcoin community.  

Does that help?

PS, just as a follow up, we figure we are offering shares in the company at roughly 6x earnings....hardly an outlandish multiple.   Wink
2067  Economy / Securities / Re: Now seeking investors for BitCorp Mining Company on: September 26, 2011, 12:23:23 AM
You really dont understand how shares work do you? You cant set the price of the shares as you wish, by saying 0.1btc per share with 1000 shares, your automatically valueing your "company" at 100btc... for what exactly? you dont have anything.

Since Alfalfa pointed out that I can be fairly condescending is my responses, I will go easy on this one.  Really though, your post is silly.

To say I don't understand how shares work, considering what I do for a living outside of Bitcoin, is stupid.  If you would take the time to read the proposal, or had any knowledge of how share sales actually work, you would see how off-base you are.

When a company offers shares to the public for the first time, they absolutely set an acceptable range for pricing.  In terms if valuing the company, you really did not read a bit of the proposal did you?  .1 BTC is what the monthly dividend will be set at, not what we are willing to sell shares for. 

Finally, we don't have anyting?  What in God's name are you talking about?  We have a hardware investment of over $7,000 and monthly BTC production in excess of 150 BTC.  How exactly is that having nothing?

Seriously, if you don't take the time to educate yourself on the matter, just don't post.   

2068  Economy / Securities / Re: Now seeking investors for BitCorp Mining Company on: September 25, 2011, 09:28:38 PM
Here are some photos of the first office location:

Here are some more empty GPU boxes.  I know ya'all love GPU porn:  https://i.imgur.com/hgVAn.jpg

There are 6 workstations that are identical, and look like this:  https://i.imgur.com/04xr3.jpg

Here is the side panel removed from a workstation:  https://i.imgur.com/yAnf7.jpg

and another:  https://i.imgur.com/RjTga.jpg

and a third:  https://i.imgur.com/dIlgt.jpg

my pride and joy, matching poweredge servers.  2 6-core xeons each.  Unreal power:  https://i.imgur.com/YjyLc.jpg

a custome build stuffed in a back room, alongside another dell box:  https://i.imgur.com/1GqRQ.jpg

did not bother taking the side panel off this one:  https://i.imgur.com/x1F9n.jpg


Am I getting close to convincing some of you we are for real?
2069  Economy / Securities / Re: Now seeking investors for BitCorp Mining Company on: September 25, 2011, 07:01:51 PM
You'll need to post substantial proof within 24 hours if you want to build some credibility. We've been through this game before, and it's infuriating. Photos and video will help a lot. No excuses, no explanations, no delaying or putting off. Just link photos from imgur and a video from youtube. If you don't, you will lose all credibility instantly and you'll have zero chance building it back up. You'll never meet a more cautious, picky, skeptical, paranoid, risk-adverse group of people in your life. You'll have to lay down every card you got or just go away.

This is going to have to be done in stages, until I get down to the offices later today.

Here are the empty boxes of a little less than half our GPU's:  https://i.imgur.com/1L8TJ.jpg

Here is a miner in a spare room: https://i.imgur.com/Zeu9Z.jpg

Here is the same miner with the side panel removed:  https://i.imgur.com/2jrAd.jpg

A picture of our 24 port switch and server chasis:  https://i.imgur.com/bMpXO.jpg

3 more mining rigs in home office:  https://i.imgur.com/qF72o.jpg

side panel removed on the miner on the left:  https://i.imgur.com/RJLR7.jpg

side panel removed on the miner on the right:  https://i.imgur.com/nZumT.jpg

The miner in the middle is identical to picture 3

a picture of a miner in the bedroom:  https://i.imgur.com/iYnXB.jpg

side panel removed on bedroom miner, with 5970 ready to go back in:  https://i.imgur.com/AAf66.jpg


That is a start, more to follow.

Forgot to post this one, a 6970 hashing away in our living room HTPC:  https://i.imgur.com/FLk4E.jpg
Very impressive.

You made an interesting choice going with dell boxes. That's different from most other farms out there. If you can get a large number of off lease/used dell machines then it's definitely more cost effective than open frame solutions.

You hit it on the head in regards to the Dell boxes.  Believe it or not, all of the Dell machines were collecting dust in a back room.  It was a great way to start a farm.
2070  Economy / Securities / Re: Now seeking investors for BitCorp Mining Company on: September 25, 2011, 06:09:49 PM
You'll need to post substantial proof within 24 hours if you want to build some credibility. We've been through this game before, and it's infuriating. Photos and video will help a lot. No excuses, no explanations, no delaying or putting off. Just link photos from imgur and a video from youtube. If you don't, you will lose all credibility instantly and you'll have zero chance building it back up. You'll never meet a more cautious, picky, skeptical, paranoid, risk-adverse group of people in your life. You'll have to lay down every card you got or just go away.

This is going to have to be done in stages, until I get down to the offices later today.

Here are the empty boxes of a little less than half our GPU's:  https://i.imgur.com/1L8TJ.jpg

Here is a miner in a spare room: https://i.imgur.com/Zeu9Z.jpg

Here is the same miner with the side panel removed:  https://i.imgur.com/2jrAd.jpg

A picture of our 24 port switch and server chasis:  https://i.imgur.com/bMpXO.jpg

3 more mining rigs in home office:  https://i.imgur.com/qF72o.jpg

side panel removed on the miner on the left:  https://i.imgur.com/RJLR7.jpg

side panel removed on the miner on the right:  https://i.imgur.com/nZumT.jpg

The miner in the middle is identical to picture 3

a picture of a miner in the bedroom:  https://i.imgur.com/iYnXB.jpg

side panel removed on bedroom miner, with 5970 ready to go back in:  https://i.imgur.com/AAf66.jpg


That is a start, more to follow.

Forgot to post this one, a 6970 hashing away in our living room HTPC:  https://i.imgur.com/FLk4E.jpg
2071  Economy / Securities / Re: Now seeking investors for BitCorp Mining Company on: September 25, 2011, 04:37:11 PM
furthermore, I really could not care less about what the BTC/USD conversion rate is, as we are in the business of mining Bitcoin, Paying dividends in Bitcoin, and taking investment in Bitcoin.  We produce a very steady, very predictable stream of BTC per month, and tha has value to many people. 

You are running a bitcoin business and you don't care about BTC/USD? I'm sorry but you are drinking the kool-aid too deeply. It's an important factor in mining because your electricity and rent costs are tied up in this. It's also a leading indicator on difficulty, so it's kind of like saying you don't care about difficulty.

What is your stance on FPGA versus video cards?

We probably should have addressed this a little more directly in the business plan.  Our cost structure is very, very low.  As we own the two office locations already for other ventures, we do not charge ourselves "Rent".  As for electricity cost, only the residectial location has a meaningful amount of power expense.  The office buildings we are in have pooled utility expense, so our increase in cost is barely perceptible.  That is why the BTC/USD exchange rate does not matter that much to us....we really don't need to convert that much BTC to USD.   

Hope that helps. 

FPGA mining is a business risk that investors will have to weigh before deciding to invest.  We are aware of the threat, but are willing to continue mining despite the risk.

2072  Economy / Securities / Re: Now seeking investors for BitCorp Mining Company on: September 25, 2011, 04:07:06 PM
You'll need to post substantial proof within 24 hours if you want to build some credibility. We've been through this game before, and it's infuriating. Photos and video will help a lot. No excuses, no explanations, no delaying or putting off. Just link photos from imgur and a video from youtube. If you don't, you will lose all credibility instantly and you'll have zero chance building it back up. You'll never meet a more cautious, picky, skeptical, paranoid, risk-adverse group of people in your life. You'll have to lay down every card you got or just go away.

Well that thread was interesting.  Wow.

Alright, I suppose we were a bit presumptuous in our approach.  We are going to take some time today and go around to our 3 locations and take some photos of the machines.

We will not be giving a video tour, of the place, but we will post some video of the miners hashing away.
2073  Economy / Securities / Re: Now seeking investors for BitCorp Mining Company on: September 25, 2011, 04:02:14 PM
Just out of curiosity, where would be the value in selling a contract to someone, then renting out the hash-rate from someone else?  How could you make that work?
You claimed your credibility lies with your past history of offering mining contracts. I just pointed out that that "the ability of offer mining contracts" does not imply "owning mining equipment". If Alice wanted build credibility, she can just rent 9000 MH/s for 35BTC per week and then offer "mining contracts" for 32 BTC per week. It only costs Alice 3BTC per week to build credibility while appearing like she operates a huge mining farm. You have to understand that from my personal perspective there is 0 evidence to differentiate you from Alice so far. A simple set of pictures can change that.  

My biggest problem is certain people on this forum will scream "scam" no matter what evidence is provided.  If I post pictures, they will say the pics are photoshoped.  If I post a read-out of our BTC prodution for the last 30 days, they will claim we made it in excel.  If I post the names of people we have been a great business partner too, they will claim we have multiple accounts.

Maybe I was a little harsh in my first response, I let my frustration come through.  

We are willing to provide evidence that we are legitimate, and would like your suggestions (we are re-considering posting pictures per you request).  We genuinely want this to work, and are being completely straight-forward.

The whole chicken and egg thing is killer.
Yes, pictures can be photoshoped. But snapping pictures is cheap and easy, while photoshoping multiple megabyte sized photos are not. Yes, some people will scream "scam" no matter what. But if you post two dozen high resolution pictures of each of your locations, then anyone still screaming "scam" will just look like nut jobs.

Makes sense.  I was only looking at it from the perspective of a business....not just trying to build credibility. 
2074  Economy / Securities / Re: Now seeking investors for BitCorp Mining Company on: September 25, 2011, 04:00:41 PM
hi yochdog, you say you can do 15GH/s... is this in addition to the 10GH/s I have already contracted for september 27th through to october 27th?


No, I believe we can only go to 15 GH/s total.  Your contract is locked and ready.  Part of our ongoing operations discussed in our business plan.
2075  Economy / Securities / Re: Now seeking investors for BitCorp Mining Company on: September 25, 2011, 05:41:45 AM
Please don't take this the wrong way, but someone can ask for 8 btc per share, convert that into USD, and put the USD into a bank account. At the current rate of bitcoin price drop he can afford to pay out 0.1 btc dividends indefinitely.

I'm not making accusations here. I'm saying that there's very little evidence to differentiate you from the above scheme. When you release your mining rig photos to potential investors they have no way to verify those photos except by posting them on this forum, so your photos will end going public regardless. So I would highly recommend that you post some photos of your mining rigs since it has the following benefits:
1. Everyone can verfiy that the photos are novel
2. Someone else can't claim the photos as their own
3. Build credibility

Please don't take this the wrong way, but That's great.  A truly brilliant observation.  You should probably be given a prize for your power of deductive reasoning. 

All joking aside....assuming the price of BTC will always go down is stunningly assinine (have you even been paying attention for more than 5 weeks, or are you a newcomer who assumes they know all?).  I would not base a business on that assumption, but if you want to, be my guest.  furthermore, I really could not care less about what the BTC/USD conversion rate is, as we are in the business of mining Bitcoin, Paying dividends in Bitcoin, and taking investment in Bitcoin.  We produce a very steady, very predictable stream of BTC per month, and tha has value to many people. 

In regards to the photos, we don't feel the need to disclose them simply because you feel entitled to throw accusations around.  We have a track record of being legitimate partners in mining contracts.  This can be verified here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=41888.0 and here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=38904.0  Our reputation can also be looked into by talking with "payb.tc", "jduck1987", and "BitSense Informatics"

I'm just trying to help, if you don't want it then that's fine.

The other threads have 0 evidence that you actually have the machines. You could have simply rented the hashes from someone else. I have no interest in bothering other forum members because you refuse to provide evidence yourself. Do you expect every investor to hold a PM chat with those three guys?

If you make no assumptions about the BTC/USD conversion ratio, the scam will still work. Just pay the dividends from the original 8 BTC. You can do this for 6 years and the scammer can still make a profit.

I bet typing that reply took much longer than posting a photo.

Just out of curiosity, where would be the value in selling a contract to someone, then renting out the hash-rate from someone else?  How could you make that work?

My biggest problem is certain people on this forum will scream "scam" no matter what evidence is provided.  If I post pictures, they will say the pics are photoshoped.  If I post a read-out of our BTC prodution for the last 30 days, they will claim we made it in excel.  If I post the names of people we have been a great business partner too, they will claim we have multiple accounts.

Maybe I was a little harsh in my first response, I let my frustration come through. 

We are willing to provide evidence that we are legitimate, and would like your suggestions (we are re-considering posting pictures per you request).  We genuinely want this to work, and are being completely straight-forward.

The whole chicken and egg thing is killer.
2076  Economy / Securities / Re: Now seeking investors for BitCorp Mining Company on: September 25, 2011, 05:39:14 AM

Ontop of your damning post history we also have these problems:

1) No photos at all
2) Your identity is anonymous
3) All we know of your location is Idaho.

Talk about a scam waiting to happen. I wouldn't go near this "company". I'd advise others not to do so as well. Don't bother attacking me, I already have you on ignore.

Alphy

I guess this is pointless since you ae ignoring me, but I will briefly respond.  I apologize for the somewhat coarse and sarcastic responses, but I felt that I was responding in kind.  Perhaps I was hasty.  Mea Culpa.

You act as if a person cannot learn a great deal in a small amount of time.  My first miner early this year ran at 15 MH/s.  I know run a network of 26 machines hashing at over 10,000 MH/s.  I learned from mistakes, picked up a lot of good advice, and now have one of the larger mining ops I have come across. 

I am not sure how not knowing as much 2 months ago as I do today disqualifies one from offering a professional service.  Seems somewhat arbitrary.  This is Bitcoin, not open heart surgery.  Let's face it, mining is fairly straightforward once you learn the ropes. 

Again, I apologize for the sarcasm and abruptness.....I felt much the the legitimate advice I was given was not so kindly given. 

 

2077  Economy / Securities / Re: Now seeking investors for BitCorp Mining Company on: September 25, 2011, 05:13:51 AM
That's a bit much do ya think?

How about start slow and just ask for pics of his bedroom where the gigantic mining farm is located? And maybe his parents power bill for last month?

Got feisty up in here didn't it?

No parents house here, guys.  I know you all like to project your own situation on everyone, but alas, tis not the case. 

I am 30, married, own my own home, and pay my power bill like a big boy.  Keep on trucking and you too may be able to have all this someday. 

2078  Economy / Securities / Re: Now seeking investors for BitCorp Mining Company on: September 24, 2011, 06:36:54 PM
Please don't take this the wrong way, but someone can ask for 8 btc per share, convert that into USD, and put the USD into a bank account. At the current rate of bitcoin price drop he can afford to pay out 0.1 btc dividends indefinitely.

I'm not making accusations here. I'm saying that there's very little evidence to differentiate you from the above scheme. When you release your mining rig photos to potential investors they have no way to verify those photos except by posting them on this forum, so your photos will end going public regardless. So I would highly recommend that you post some photos of your mining rigs since it has the following benefits:
1. Everyone can verfiy that the photos are novel
2. Someone else can't claim the photos as their own
3. Build credibility

Please don't take this the wrong way, but That's great.  A truly brilliant observation.  You should probably be given a prize for your power of deductive reasoning. 

All joking aside....assuming the price of BTC will always go down is stunningly assinine (have you even been paying attention for more than 5 weeks, or are you a newcomer who assumes they know all?).  I would not base a business on that assumption, but if you want to, be my guest.  furthermore, I really could not care less about what the BTC/USD conversion rate is, as we are in the business of mining Bitcoin, Paying dividends in Bitcoin, and taking investment in Bitcoin.  We produce a very steady, very predictable stream of BTC per month, and tha has value to many people. 

In regards to the photos, we don't feel the need to disclose them simply because you feel entitled to throw accusations around.  We have a track record of being legitimate partners in mining contracts.  This can be verified here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=41888.0 and here:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=38904.0  Our reputation can also be looked into by talking with "payb.tc", "jduck1987", and "BitSense Informatics"
2079  Economy / Securities / Re: Now seeking investors for BitCorp Mining Company on: September 24, 2011, 06:12:40 PM

Company Locations and Facilities
We have three locations:
1)   A residential office, with 3,000 MH/s of capacity.  Upgradable and expandable.
2)   2,000 SF class A office space with 3,000 MH/s of capacity.  Nearly maxed out on capacity.
3)   3.500 SF class A office space with 4,500 MH/s of capacity.  Large additional capacity. 



Sorry if this was answered and I assume its included in your 'expenses by BTC' but can we get a breakdown of your electricity cost per KWH at each of these locations and a total average of what that is and what it will be at the start of the next month for all facilities combined?  Do you forsee this cost going up or down with any change of contract for the electricty at any or all of the facilities?

Cheers

Hi there,

This is the CTO of BitCO....I wanted to expand on this topic a little more.  Our only direct cost of electricity comes from the residential location.  The two office locations have pooled elecricity cost, so it is hard to break out exactly what our network uses.  BitCO pays a small fee to the business' occupying the office space, and that fee is indeed included in Operating Costs on the financials. 
2080  Economy / Securities / Re: Now seeking investors for BitCorp Mining Company on: September 24, 2011, 06:06:46 PM
Are you sure your production numbers are correct? I'm producing half of what you are producing and I only invested $2000 in hardware. I thought the point of a corporation is to take advantage of the economies of scale.

Great observation.  We did not hit our current 10,000 MH/s until early this month.  I expect that our September production will be close to 175 BTC.

That's more like it. Do you plan to expand further or just keep the current rate?


We believe we have suficient infrastructure to reach 15,000 MH/s.  Our plan is to strategically expand when financially advantageous (read: good deals on additional hardware).  If we feel the cost benefit of further expansion is not in our favor, we are happy to continue at 10 GH/s and pay out generous dividends. 
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