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2121  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin Failure is likely on: March 28, 2011, 07:27:35 PM
I hate to pile on, but no. The judiciary is the third branch of the US government, alongside the executive and legislative branches.

Okay I misspoke;  they (the Federal courts at least) are effectively independent as a separate branch.  I see no distinction but I suppose you are correct.

Regardless, I stand by my assertion that there is no evidence of the US having governed anything, ever, having been conceived and created totally without the means or motivation to do so.
2122  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Bitcoin.org server admins wanted on: March 28, 2011, 05:32:56 PM
Quote from: vladimir
20+ years of experience with Linux and FreeBSD

 Roll Eyes
2123  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin Failure is likely on: March 28, 2011, 05:05:42 PM
It's obvious that most of you aren't Americans.  We don't have a parliamentary system, so there is no "government" separate from the state.  In common parlance, "government" means everything from the courts to the fire department to the DMV.  Though, technically, the courts are supposed to be independent of the government.

And the US isn't actually a government or a state anyways, it's a trade federation.  So it's really more like the opposite of a government.  It's an accelerant.

It's all complicated by the fact that elected officials basically just do whatever the hell they want with no regard for anything.
2124  Economy / Marketplace / Re: Earn 34BTC or 20-21BTC for getting shops/organisations to accept Bitcoin on: March 28, 2011, 03:17:19 PM
I have contacted a small shop that I think would offer a useful addition to the Bitcoin economy.  Unfortunately their pagerank is zero.  So maybe if they accept, someone can help them improve that.
2125  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin Failure is likely on: March 28, 2011, 12:11:17 PM
And please lets stop with this inernet meme that the Federal Reserve is a private bank. Its not.

I know, that annoys me too.  The profits are private.  The losses are public.

But I think it is important to discuss, at least.  Because half of Americans are usually fairly horrified to learn that the government doesn't actually control the money supply.  And the other half are horrified to learn that private banks have been granted all of these governmental powers.
2126  Economy / Economics / Re: Money Should Work? on: March 28, 2011, 12:01:42 PM
Please clarify what you are asking.  Do you mean that money should appreciate in value?  Or do you mean that money should support real investment?
2127  Other / Off-topic / Re: Liberty Dollar Creator Convicted in Federal Court on: March 26, 2011, 09:07:08 AM
tl;dr, His notes where 100% backed by the bullion coins. they where not fraudulent or fractional.

Well whether they were fractional or not is anyone's guess but they aren't exactly redeemable now are they?

Any idiot who bought those things should have seen this coming.  I did.
2128  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin Failure is likely on: March 26, 2011, 09:02:20 AM
Exactly.  Stocks are built on layer upon layer of risk due to insider manipulation -- accounting fraud, executives, boards of directors, stock exchanges, monetary manipulation, government intervention, etc..

BitCoin has one layer of risk:  the network itself.
2129  Other / Off-topic / Re: Liberty Dollar Creator Convicted in Federal Court on: March 26, 2011, 08:43:17 AM
Keep in mind the gov had no problem with his notes. But the coins bear a close resemblance to US money

Of course they had no problem with his notes.  His notes were just fraudulent fractional reserve banking bullshit just like that sponsored by the US government.  It's a competing currency to theirs.  The US Treasury would be delighted to see NORFED rip people off and destroy their own credibility.  And they looked sort of like Federal Reserve Notes too so you would think if they were interested in counterfeiting they would go after them as well, right?  No, counterfeiting isn't the reason.

Besides, there's no legal difference between notes and coins.  Notes are just coins made of carbon instead of metal.  If coining money and passing it off as currency is illegal, then printing notes and passing it off as currency is illegal as well and Ben Bernanke should be in jail next to this guy.  Anything less is selective prosecution.

They went after coins because the coins were a threat.  The coins actually went up in value.  The coins created value because they couldn't be inflated.  The coins actually took valuable physical capital out of the control of the US "democracy" and placed it back in the control of individual Americans:

Quote
“We are determined to meet these threats through infiltration, disruption and dismantling of organizations which seek to challenge the legitimacy of our democratic form of government,” Tompkins said.

That's it right there.  According to Miss Tompkins and half the airheads in the fucking US judiciary, we live in a "democracy" where the majority can steal from the minority at any time through monetary fraud and outright theft.  And competing currencies, even those that aren't backed by any type of force or fraud or even anything whatsoever, are such a huge threat to that racket that they must be labeled "domestic terrorism".

Remember that Greenspan marveled over and over again at how the US economy was just so magnificently efficient that we could build this giant inverted pyramid on such a tiny amount of resources.  The banks are all leveraged at 100:1.  They created trillions of dollars of fictional paper money derivatives from the value of those resources and traded it between themselves over and over again, collecting a fee each time until they owned everything, on paper.  But it's all just a fractional reserve load of crap.  So when someone starts dismantling some of the resources at the base of that pyramid and distributing them out to individuals, you had better believe the result is going to be exactly this:  a fucking hammer coming down.

And of course in reality the US doesn't have a "democratic form of government".  The Constitution specifically guarantees a Republican form of government, along with only gold and silver money.  But this stupid cunt, along with the [edited by mod:nefario: please watch your bad language, a little is ok but don't go overboard.], probably never even read the Constitution on the way to pulling their fucking law degrees out of Cracker Jack boxes.  I'm just shocked that somehow they managed to find twelve Cheeto-encrusted retards with such little self-respect as to go along with this monkey trial.

Read their entire press release.  It's important to understand the motivations of terrorists.  And more often than not, they are happy to tell you.  Bin Laden told us exactly why he was waging war against the US.  It wasn't for the reasons the media or GWB said -- Bin Laden didn't "hate our freedoms", he hated the fact that we were occupying half the middle east.

So don't be distracted by the journalistic bullshit.  These people are telling us exactly why they are waging war on Americans' right to real money.  Read their entire press release.  It isn't because they are afraid of counterfeiting.  It's because they're afraid of competition:

Quote
For Immediate Release
March 18, 2011    United States Attorney's Office
Western District of North Carolina
Contact: (704) 344-6222

Defendant Convicted of Minting His Own Currency

STATESVILLE, NC—Bernard von NotHaus, 67, was convicted today by a federal jury of making, possessing, and selling his own coins, announced Anne M. Tompkins, U.S. Attorney for the Western District of North Carolina. Following an eight-day trial and less than two hours of deliberation, von NotHaus, the founder and monetary architect of a currency known as the Liberty Dollar, was found guilty by a jury in Statesville, North Carolina, of making coins resembling and similar to United States coins; of issuing, passing, selling, and possessing Liberty Dollar coins; of issuing and passing Liberty Dollar coins intended for use as current money; and of conspiracy against the United States. The guilty verdict concluded an investigation which began in 2005 and involved the minting of Liberty Dollar coins with a current value of approximately $7 million. Joining the U.S. Attorney Anne M. Tompkins in making today’s announcement are Edward J. Montooth, Acting Special Agent in Charge of the FBI, Charlotte Division; Russell F. Nelson, Special Agent in Charge of the United States Secret Service, Charlotte Division; and Sheriff Van Duncan of the Buncombe County Sheriff’s Office.

According to the evidence introduced during the trial, von NotHaus was the founder of an organization called the National Organization for the Repeal of the Federal Reserve and Internal Revenue Code, commonly known as NORFED and also known as Liberty Services. Von NotHaus was the president of NORFED and the executive director of Liberty Dollar Services, Inc. until on or about September 30, 2008.

Von NotHaus designed the Liberty Dollar currency in 1998 and the Liberty coins were marked with the dollar sign ($); the words dollar, USA, Liberty, Trust in God (instead of In God We Trust); and other features associated with legitimate U.S. coinage. Since 1998, NORFED has been issuing, disseminating, and placing into circulation the Liberty Dollar in all its forms throughout the United States and Puerto Rico. NORFED’s purpose was to mix Liberty Dollars into the current money of the United States. NORFED intended for the Liberty Dollar to be used as current money in order to limit reliance on, and to compete with, United States currency.

In coordination with the Department of Justice, on September 14, 2006, the United States Mint issued a press release and warning to American citizens that the Liberty Dollar was “not legal tender.” The U.S. Mint press release and public service announcement stated that the Department of Justice had determined that the use of Liberty Dollars as circulating money was a federal crime.

Article I, section 8, clause 5 of the United States Constitution delegates to Congress the power to coin money and to regulate the value thereof. This power was delegated to Congress in order to establish and preserve a uniform standard of value and to insure a singular monetary system for all purchases and debts in the United States, public and private. Along with the power to coin money, Congress has the concurrent power to restrain the circulation of money which is not issued under its own authority in order to protect and preserve the constitutional currency for the benefit of all citizens of the nation. It is a violation of federal law for individuals, such as von NotHaus, or organizations, such as NORFED, to create private coin or currency systems to compete with the official coinage and currency of the United States.

Von NotHaus, who remains free on bond, faces a sentence of up to 15 years’ imprisonment on count two of the indictment and a fine of not more than $250,000. Von NotHaus faces a prison sentence of five years and fines of $250,000 on both counts one and three. In addition, the United States is seeking the forfeiture of approximately 16,000 pounds of Liberty Dollar coins and precious metals, currently valued at nearly $7 million. The forfeiture trial, which began today before United States District Court Judge Richard Voorhees, will resume on April 4, 2011 in the federal courthouse in Statesville. Judge Voorhees has not yet set a date for the sentencing of von NotHaus.

“Attempts to undermine the legitimate currency of this country are simply a unique form of domestic terrorism,” U.S. Attorney Tompkins said in announcing the verdict. “While these forms of anti-government activities do not involve violence, they are every bit as insidious and represent a clear and present danger to the economic stability of this country,” she added. “We are determined to meet these threats through infiltration, disruption, and dismantling of organizations which seek to challenge the legitimacy of our democratic form of government.”

The case was investigated by the FBI, Buncombe County Sheriff’s Department, and the U.S. Secret Service, in cooperation with and invaluable assistance of the United States Mint. The case was prosecuted by Assistant United States Attorneys Jill Westmoreland Rose and Craig D. Randall, and the forfeiture trial is being prosecuted by Assistant United States Attorneys Tom Ascik and Ben Bain Creed.
2130  Other / Off-topic / Re: Liberty Dollar Creator Convicted in Federal Court on: March 26, 2011, 05:37:08 AM
This is not "off topic" by any stretch of the imagination.

When private banks print their own money, backed by nothing but accounting fraud, and that money ultimately fails, they get bailed out by taxpayers.

When a US citizen creates money, in the form of physical precious metals, and that money becomes successful, he gets prosecuted.
2131  Other / Off-topic / Re: The fantastic noagenda inflation service is here to save you! on: March 26, 2011, 05:17:58 AM
I actually saw a ben bernank at Lowes the other day.  It was wearing a suit and tie and had a bald head with a grey beard and everything and it followed me into the hardware aisle to buy carriage bolts.  I probably should have asked it for some stimulus money.
2132  Economy / Economics / Re: Bitcoin Failure is likely on: March 26, 2011, 04:47:37 AM
You make an interesting point about the infinite supply of digital cash.  That is something to think about.

But I'd like you to tell us more about what you mean by "recognized as payment by authorities"...

Do you just mean that fiat currencies are backed by a government that will enforce contracts based on them?  If so, I think that is a somewhat weak assertion.  Courts in the US are generally recognized as worthless for settling contract disputes, and are only used as a last resort when large sums are at stake.  Private enforcement (ie the mob) and third-party transaction insurance (eg paypal) are arguably better models.

Do you just mean that governments accept fiat currencies as payment of taxes?  Are you arguing that high taxes are good for an economy?

Or do you mean to argue the absolute extreme case -- that any viable currency must enjoy absolute monopoly as a store of current value, and this monopoly must be maintained by force?  If so, then I suppose you aren't alone.  Many in the US judiciary are already under the delusion that this is the case with Federal Reserve Notes.  Just look at Kelo v. New London and the recent Liberty Dollar case, where judges and federal prosecutors are more than happy to seize and redistribute property under some notion that Federal Reserve Notes are the final and absolute nationwide unit of account for all that is good, and that any competing measure of value ranging from the value an old lady has in keeping her home to the inherent value of precious metals constitutes a terroristic threat to the sanctity of the Federal Reserve monetary monopoly.
2133  Economy / Economics / Re: Inflation is... on: March 26, 2011, 04:26:33 AM
I always like watching people's heads explode when presented with the 26 acres per capita number.  It's easy to calculate about a half dozen different ways.

But, with regards to the US at least, it's also fairly easy to lower.  Even Europe has a high standard of living with much lower consumption.  And though meat does account for a large acreage, most of it is not food.  Most of it is waste:  driving inefficient cars long distances, temperature control of poorly-insulated buildings (not just houses but shops and warehouses), self-destructing consumer items shipped from the other side of the world, supply-chain waste and a lot of redundant energy consumption on things like frozen foods.  It can be cut in half fairly easily.

But to answer "where does it come from", well, good question because the US only has about 6-7 acres of land per capita.  The rest comes from trade, from oceans, and from fossil fuels.  All of these are threatened for various reasons -- trade due to our own government's incompetence, oceans due to over-utilization and pollution, and fossil fuels due to depletion and negative externalities.  These sources constitute almost 3/4 of the American standard of living.
2134  Economy / Economics / Re: How Does Stock Work on: March 24, 2011, 09:22:43 AM
The value of tech stocks comes from their status as legalized gambling, and from the US government giving free drugs to old people that induce compulsive gambling and give said government a cut in the form of tax revenues.
2135  Economy / Economics / Re: Inflation is... on: March 24, 2011, 09:00:55 AM
Monetary inflation is a relic, necessitated by the limits of physical money, namely that it cannot be infinitely divided.

In so much as it is not distributed equitably, it is debasement and theft.
2136  Economy / Marketplace / Re: SELLERS: Let's Raise Our Prices to $2/BTC! on: March 21, 2011, 08:08:50 PM
It's cute how you guys think your little gaming rigs are "capital" and that mooching off your parents' electric bill is productive work like "mining" or "farming".
2137  Economy / Economics / Re: Deflationary currency? Really? on: March 16, 2011, 03:39:24 PM
Division and distribution is the same as consumption.  They are absolutely equivalent.
I guess we live in different worlds, then. In mine you can't eat the cake and have it.

So in your world what do you do to consume things that is different from division and distribution?
2138  Economy / Economics / Re: Deflationary currency? Really? on: March 16, 2011, 02:23:59 PM
Nothing I said was the least bit Keynesian.  But biflation does have meaning.  It tells us that there is not one unified market, just like you said.  There are artificial barriers separating monetary tiers, and this makes measurement of any kind of "on net" metric impossible.
2139  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: What Happens When Double Spending Occurs With USD??? on: March 16, 2011, 12:52:57 PM
The short answer is that banks that allow double spending go bankrupt and lose their initial capital.

The long answer is that the Federal Reserve bails them out using money they print from thin air and the value of everyone's money goes down to pay for it.
2140  Economy / Economics / Re: Deflationary currency? Really? on: March 16, 2011, 11:58:55 AM
Quote
With inflation you should buy what you need early, but that doesn't mean you should consume it.

Division and distribution is the same as consumption.  They are absolutely equivalent.

This applies to everything from raw materials, refined commodities, manufactured goods, and obviously services.
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