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221  Economy / Gambling / Re: problem with off-chain "provably fair" games on: October 19, 2013, 03:32:20 PM
it essentially means no one knows the random number or the secret that will be used until after the bet is in.

yes but the odds are programmed coded adjusted way off what is displayed, imo i think thats what makes these type sites not truthful or honest to players.  Roll Eyes
222  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ZET] Zetacoin - SHA256 coin - Pools up - Quick confirmations on: October 19, 2013, 02:57:18 PM
Hi all,I make a site for anyone get ZET for free every 2 hours,happy! Wink
http://zet.qquu.com/

ZET FAUCET added ~ to secret forum!   Wink
223  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Service Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Just-Dice.com : Invest in 1% House Edge Dice Game on: October 19, 2013, 02:53:04 PM
no what i'm saying is however you do it your system can detect when a user raises the bet, do you log IP addresses?
I suspect you do and use this info to adjust odds, to mitigate your risk. I know this is a system wide issue so don't start saying you only lost lil $ or whatever  Roll Eyes

The site can "detect" the size of the stake on each bet because the user provides it.  There's no "detection" required.

I do log IP addresses but fail to see how this is in any way connected to the issue of "adjusting odds".

The algorithm used to generate the numbers you roll is public, and independent of the stake and chance the user picks.  The whole sequence of rolls to infinity is pre-selected when your pair of seeds is selected in fact.  You can verify this fact for yourself using the tool on Mooshire's page, linked at the bottom of the 'Fair?' tab.

The site is currently in profit, and only plays for Bitcoin.  So rather than "lost lil $" we "won lot BTC" or whatever.

you registered with the SEC?  Cool whos your registering agent? tia

Just-Dice is not registered with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission.  Nor with the Uzbekistan Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade.


ouch wow you just riding these "securities" investments out your ass? LMAO  Grin
224  Economy / Gambling / Re: problem with off-chain "provably fair" games on: October 19, 2013, 02:39:42 PM
No such thing as provably fair imho. It's basically a theory that's been turned into marketing thing. People put way too much trust in the claim.

I'd like to see a site prove they are "Provably Random"

That's a matter of passing randomness tests, would you actually be happy if a certain site presented that to the user ? Actually, anyone can reproduce the method used for the rolls, do the rolls themselves offline and apply randomness tests (just make sure you do it correctly). What I think will happen is that another group will come around claiming this adds nothing, it's just a marketing thing and people put way too much trust in the claim.

your site FAILED my randomness test!  Roll Eyes
225  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Service Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Just-Dice.com : Invest in 1% House Edge Dice Game on: October 19, 2013, 02:30:36 PM
storing peoples personal info nice! ip logging procedures i'm seeing what you do !  Cool dirty dirty

Those reports are anonymised and exist only so that investors can check that Just-Dice isn't running a fractional reserve operation.  Each week I list all the investment amounts and their sum.  Each investor is responsible for checking that I list their amount.  Then they can verify that the cold wallet does actually hold the amount it should.

If I omit any investor's amount then that's a cause for concern, since then I could be holding less coins than I should be.

It's really hard to work out what you're trying to say in your posts sometimes.  I get a general sense that you're angry and think the site is doing something wrong, but it's not clear to me what you think that is.  I mentioned in the JD chat that the rolls are provably fair, but you don't seem to understand what that means.  If there's anything I can help you with so you can fully understand how the site works, and how it is impossible for me it to cheat you, please do help me to help you.

If you're looking for a casino to be mad at, check out https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=310561 - they have openly admitted that their games will deliberately make players lose when the casino's bankroll is too low.  When I asked how they can behave in such a way they locked the thread and opened a new one with is self moderated.  When I asked the same question in the new thread they just deleted my post.  Now there's a casino fully deserving of your insightful criticism.

you registered with the SEC?  Cool whos your registering agent? tia

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*i do honour you embracing freedom of speech!
226  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Service Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Just-Dice.com : Invest in 1% House Edge Dice Game on: October 19, 2013, 02:29:19 PM
hey doog , how is this possible @93%/!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!====>

You lost 3 out of 4 93% bets.  Each roll is effectively independent of all the others.  You have a 7% chance of losing each of them.

If you play only 4 times and lose 3 of them, that's pretty unlucky.  If you play enough times you're almost certain to have a run where you lose 3 out of 4.

I'm not really sure I understand the question, but does that answer it?


no what i'm saying is however you do it your system can detect when a user raises the bet, do you log IP addresses?
I suspect you do and use this info to adjust odds, to mitigate your risk. I know this is a system wide issue so don't start saying you only lost lil $ or whatever  Roll Eyes
227  Economy / Gambling / Re: problem with off-chain "provably fair" games on: October 18, 2013, 10:51:20 PM
huge flame, but the simple observation I made is largerly missed.

There's a difference between "you know when you've been cheated" and
"when you'be been cheated, you can prove it."

Unfortunately, the off-chain "provably fair" casions provide only the first
type of guarantee, whereas the on-chain ones provide the second type.

I don't think one needs the bitcoin blockchain to solve the problem, but
the current algorithms in off-chain casions do not provide a solution.

There's no need to complicate the situation. Whenever you make a deposit at any place (this goes way beyond off the chain games), that place is able to do anything with that. The only reason such thing does not happen is because there is no interest in doing so. You can sign messages, broadcasts them, and so on, but since you made a deposit then it's just a matter of trusting the place.


it seems this problem is more wide spread and across the board . don't mean to imply i'm singling out ggdice!  Roll Eyes
228  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Service Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Just-Dice.com : Invest in 1% House Edge Dice Game on: October 18, 2013, 10:31:14 PM
I recently set up Just-Dice.com, a dice game where players can chose to roll the dice or use their balance to become investors in the site.

It's been up less than a week and already attracted over 9000 BTC in investments.

There's a thread on the gambling forum where I offer players free bitcents to try the site out and answer questions about the game, but I think it would be useful to have a separate thread for the investors to discuss their concerns.

That's this thread. Have at it! Smiley

...

This is where I publish a list of investment 'base' sizes so people can check that I'm not running a fractional reserve operation. It's updated after the commission run that happens at midnight UTC each Sunday. I only list investments of 0.00010000 BTC and over to save space (we're close to the maximum allowed post length on the forum), though the displayed "sum" includes the omitted small investments.

Click the 'history' tab. Find a recent end-of-period commission" line, and find the last number on that line. Then find it in the correspondingly dated version of this list. If it's not there, complain loudly.

1st September 2013:

Quote
[6543.98454683,3424.13220535,2406.19466415,1873.69260415,1129.46944697,1105.19499118,1095.33596463,1028.43109660,1006.81323914,1000.80249879,937.28442575,923.13978479,872.22878870,810.18340529,631.06113764,628.71817016,628.30265998,590.55038495,580.51599085,578.62777725,572.81946083,504.92230658,504.01444697,501.73806314,468.49388848,460.45962086,452.21244664,438.18555181,417.84779135,386.70461507,386.66654282,380.45779785,373.11026677,355.56099991,335.15421430,319.59998984,315.16469127,305.88144629,303.81968120,301.37018488,300.05830664,297.47327905,268.34057813,245.36972056,233.32663636,225.11518401,223.76125125,218.28647997,214.54596852,212.29712436,202.75758030,201.87029359,200.90431487,196.70969984,186.35840383,170.83484298,170.70501185,161.86350423,160.03205890,153.48466179,146.45797634,141.43144400,140.96797735,140.74585305,137.54516521,137.44758366,132.11685872,124.30120886,123.56441915,121.07605436,120.09181031,117.53273565,115.50029915,114.95092181,113.10834841,110.66262187,108.74892787,105.57223233,105.09157520,103.71902669,103.48511068,101.79245776,101.69121643,101.48192660,100.48059433,100.19795932,99.19416472,99.11856216,98.59557208,98.44770783,95.98194104,94.13005907,92.60221920,90.90200290,90.21956998,82.09233458,80.17813855,79.46567142,76.74727610,75.70639838,73.37426888,72.45214771,71.77746836,69.76370619,66.84478652,65.00658766,62.17418802,61.17884926,60.52931941,59.42624373,59.12508351,57.68500455,57.05557140,55.95382042,55.00765658,54.28579197,53.50363802,53.38668797,52.67321785,52.52478209,51.18951734,51.01308266,50.88085811,50.59119723,50.54171019,50.53458574,50.39989086,50.37706328,50.36955571,50.32129328,50.23096620,50.14946561,50.03760271,49.85275495,49.13281935,48.25978712,48.02391099,47.97354205,46.06954439,45.97767309,44.91231900,43.05366662,42.16772784,41.91705345,41.56559523,41.31062048,40.24603850,40.07382299,39.10455725,38.37518589,37.54393684,37.46279778,37.06332628,36.32462302,35.46779545,35.41582424,35.09908513,34.75184402,34.65858212,34.50664752,34.29891045,33.12714456,31.16119617,31.12934033,30.85158750,30.34824459,30.21516775,30.08274717,29.98118631,29.77074973,29.45140523,28.97826131,27.90907228,27.63478112,27.15141282,27.00516981,26.77052444,26.60608559,25.49137828,25.33317606,25.18309708,24.91431518,24.39759712,23.44689215,23.19434028,22.97006842,22.42582947,21.49947237,21.44172396,21.25995203,21.15052332,20.97372624,20.58967820,20.49929036,20.49808425,20.14756538,19.64150430,18.99957772,18.80733250,17.58108310,17.50231051,17.16536248,16.90612829,16.44421520,16.44311244,16.34534572,16.26905561,15.79720722,15.40721281,15.31021533,15.22082202,14.87288878,14.76179460,14.60924212,14.50374090,14.40826763,14.30600134,14.11797385,13.07954698,12.95298449,12.65469703,12.31905631,12.28510295,12.22779090,12.11541417,12.07466494,11.99994486,11.89695736,11.87800904,11.68894154,11.66255548,11.35803817,11.22285525,11.17195935,11.15438647,11.14458839,11.13304454,10.77793790,10.74592137,10.70084837,10.56453757,10.37617052,10.29056293,10.25598574,10.22615318,10.21531215,10.20171151,10.18251353,10.10778912,10.10540270,10.09977762,10.09475558,10.04827284,10.04765947,10.04561084,10.00474166,9.88348725,9.86209049,9.68980612,9.41271867,9.31711187,9.19081556,9.16641416,9.04310455,9.01573766,8.88149623,8.40522574,8.35028712,8.15416436,7.87433321,7.79542937,7.70830239,7.54174598,7.36078005,7.22740923,7.10880837,7.04236860,6.99122907,6.71351071,6.58057098,6.47142870,6.38294467,6.26395146,6.08797668,6.03980255,6.01850230,5.98441280,5.93595313,5.81347602,5.69353688,5.62456964,5.46822608,5.40265383,5.39278597,5.38367781,5.38202187,5.37620826,5.20614612,5.19381155,5.15112452,5.14377354,5.11747931,5.07973156,5.06299689,5.05910069,5.03808217,5.03106520,5.01752435,5.00000000,4.99185895,4.84830999,4.82124991,4.73511876,4.61571549,4.53815556,4.53181663,4.50988870,4.41253342,4.37503319,4.03787312,4.02766441,4.00612345,4.00271044,3.98572522,3.95309959,3.80533269,3.78159361,3.69095921,3.63290938,3.55225454,3.51816899,3.51095661,3.48310488,3.48217392,3.37031588,3.36454541,3.33005790,3.27232639,3.25280111,3.24923493,3.20167183,3.11998626,3.07532575,3.01722784,3.00193523,2.99196834,2.97769019,2.88414257,2.86376544,2.78988734,2.75288368,2.75050964,2.71037109,2.70549158,2.70295489,2.54455068,2.54083648,2.52815323,2.52005888,2.51662130,2.44789443,2.34426936,2.24843030,2.22529863,2.22139139,2.20855594,2.19382203,2.18245488,2.17195033,2.13806183,2.09281476,2.08526938,2.08247540,2.07492973,2.07415812,2.02951809,2.01507156,2.01451174,2.01329879,2.01261602,2.00000000,1.95028288,1.94132236,1.93231675,1.92676243,1.91337753,1.88910092,1.87206541,1.84991563,1.84081370,1.83011425,1.80000000,1.76489752,1.70590569,1.68960169,1.68746561,1.65094085,1.63634072,1.63225565,1.51108238,1.41997285,1.40808885,1.38779499,1.38653792,1.36577728,1.31867047,1.31348472,1.27649668,1.25295060,1.25118374,1.25095851,1.20703495,1.19121817,1.18298518,1.17913173,1.17831348,1.16758940,1.16101163,1.15677500,1.15677133,1.15062743,1.14149239,1.123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0.00044466,0.00044287,0.00044203,0.00043031,0.00041815,0.00040442,0.00039208,0.00038658,0.00038227,0.00037994,0.00037810,0.00037216,0.00033309,0.00033000,0.00032861,0.00032757,0.00031980,0.00031463,0.00031142,0.00030391,0.00029378,0.00028802,0.00028679,0.00028610,0.00028481,0.00026919,0.00026827,0.00025634,0.00025259,0.00025209,0.00023974,0.00022871,0.00020993,0.00020438,0.00020041,0.00017865,0.00017657,0.00017022,0.00016931,0.00016780,0.00014856,0.00014637,0.00013131,0.00013107,0.00012935,0.00012890,0.00012791,0.00011814,0.00011017,0.00010758] (sum = 49875.48720733)

8th September 2013:

Quote
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(sum = 51902.59454942)

15th September 2013:

Quote
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(sum = 52879.66764407)

22nd September 2013:

Quote
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0.22107779,0.21896818,0.20815184,0.20471913,0.20448168,0.20268116,0.19822560,0.18936258,0.18245538,0.17624102,0.17496111,0.17006224,0.16708073,0.15666552,0.14725336,0.13798572,0.13450517,0.12660384,0.12630400,0.12181519,0.12024288,0.11996155,0.11735915,0.11610034,0.11600000,0.10985958,0.10841347,0.10778292,0.10572658,0.10481446,0.10415888,0.10219175,0.10195362,0.10193224,0.10172849,0.10165925,0.10127524,0.10109956,0.10000000,0.10000000,0.10000000,0.09947165,0.09759381,0.09723823,0.09555149,0.09213279,0.08767010,0.08194538,0.08186848,0.08039133,0.07845177,0.07743075,0.07489532,0.07394739,0.07258234,0.07239176,0.07237229,0.06948290,0.06852780,0.06094408,0.06000000,0.05792413,0.05282670,0.05029679,0.05000000,0.04840724,0.04724649,0.04327696,0.04318157,0.04116196,0.04090325,0.04081951,0.04053917,0.04045619,0.03781625,0.03741134,0.03624408,0.03450611,0.03304223,0.03093580,0.03060723,0.03006677,0.02731122,0.02722770,0.02689683,0.02544747,0.02343943,0.02199204,0.02163311,0.02067049,0.01850000,0.01805857,0.01728978,0.01659011,0.01658717,0.01586096,0.01521920,0.01500564,0.01431153,0.01318624,0.01292682,0.01263958,0.01222000,0.01221459,0.01205206,0.01205191,0.01182018,0.01173244,0.01148265,0.01116587,0.01095757,0.01078538,0.01076064,0.01073004,0.01064025,0.01040675,0.01034615,0.01030326,0.01023954,0.01009661,0.01002146,0.01000654,0.01000377,0.01000276,0.01000000,0.01000000,0.01000000,0.01000000,0.01000000,0.01000000,0.01000000,0.01000000,0.01000000,0.01000000,0.00741614,0.00533657,0.00301121,0.00140000,0.00078672,0.00059313,0.00046092,0.00044731,0.00037660,0.00033000,0.00012944] (sum = 42931.88210620)

29th September 2013:

Quote
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(sum = 48703.32304738)

6th October 2013:

Quote
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.08222576,1.07864216,1.06444201,1.05143500,1.04403676,1.02664715,1.02494931,1.01850358,1.01790306,1.01127120,1.01095280,1.00566650,1.00085663,1.00033689,1.00000000,1.00000000,1.00000000,0.99059713,0.98359641,0.97444500,0.94302448,0.93683416,0.89809584,0.89454913,0.88001635,0.86904068,0.72989005,0.68620854,0.66702416,0.66008596,0.65385096,0.64354587,0.62835085,0.62555440,0.62343428,0.60299752,0.58412120,0.58277368,0.57263534,0.56049999,0.55092368,0.54368640,0.54138145,0.54041506,0.53465466,0.53417133,0.52182696,0.51739116,0.51095208,0.51002141,0.50803462,0.50624377,0.50217288,0.50214049,0.50201071,0.50000000,0.48635073,0.48317894,0.48300070,0.46927117,0.45172668,0.44004813,0.40750938,0.40678675,0.39231000,0.35489532,0.35000000,0.34087135,0.32835030,0.32675688,0.31279187,0.31072986,0.30398212,0.30351329,0.30285399,0.30000000,0.29949428,0.29901915,0.27861273,0.27312663,0.24543326,0.24062349,0.23360158,0.22793824,0.22375292,0.22319117,0.22187208,0.22130737,0.22107779,0.20958767,0.20912230,0.20815184,0.20557042,0.20471913,0.20448168,0.20435858,0.20268116,0.20038371,0.20035477,0.19950000,0.19822560,0.18344326,0.17222353,0.16708073,0.16000000,0.15666552,0.15005123,0.14725336,0.14427196,0.13206222,0.13195675,0.12990166,0.12834175,0.12286773,0.12217742,0.12024288,0.11748330,0.11660384,0.11610034,0.11600000,0.11589872,0.11186402,0.10985958,0.10929631,0.10841347,0.10778292,0.10572658,0.10415888,0.10264200,0.10203407,0.10195362,0.10193224,0.10172849,0.10127524,0.10109956,0.10049745,0.10017804,0.10000000,0.10000000,0.09966199,0.09723823,0.09555149,0.09361516,0.09213279,0.08711697,0.08257562,0.08194538,0.08186848,0.08180359,0.08039132,0.08009441,0.07896818,0.07807145,0.07743075,0.07728666,0.07239176,0.06852780,0.06094408,0.06000000,0.05792413,0.05300000,0.05176236,0.05091816,0.05029679,0.05006749,0.05000000,0.05000000,0.04900000,0.04724649,0.04703406,0.04638947,0.04610754,0.04340356,0.04327696,0.04318157,0.04090325,0.04081951,0.04053917,0.04050000,0.04023163,0.03847738,0.03781625,0.03600034,0.03570337,0.03450611,0.03304223,0.03236016,0.03093580,0.03060723,0.02776876,0.02722770,0.02689683,0.02546226,0.02544747,0.02405597,0.02343943,0.02227827,0.02208103,0.02199204,0.02163311,0.02083712,0.02015389,0.02005108,0.01926127,0.01917803,0.01916715,0.01850000,0.01805857,0.01778043,0.01728978,0.01659011,0.01658717,0.01586096,0.01543618,0.01521920,0.01509000,0.01509000,0.01509000,0.01509000,0.01509000,0.01479000,0.01431153,0.01369869,0.01318624,0.01292682,0.01284435,0.01269120,0.01263958,0.01222000,0.01221459,0.01205206,0.01205191,0.01182018,0.01173244,0.01116587,0.01100120,0.01095757,0.01095362,0.01080099,0.01078538,0.01076311,0.01076064,0.01064025,0.01059301,0.01040675,0.01034615,0.01030326,0.01023954,0.01014621,0.01011985,0.01009661,0.01005010,0.01003868,0.01002146,0.01001778,0.01000000,0.01000000,0.01000000,0.01000000,0.01000000,0.01000000,0.01000000,0.01000000,0.01000000,0.00741614,0.00533657,0.00301121,0.00140000,0.00078672,0.00059313,0.00046092,0.00044731,0.00037660,0.00033000,0.00012944] (sum = 59663.90316539)

From 6th October, these reports will be posted to the Just-Dice blog rather than this forum post.

From 13th October the reported amounts will be the investment sizes (after commission) rather than the 'base' amount, since after the site takes a large loss the sum of the base amounts can be significantly higher than actual BTC holdings.


storing peoples personal info nice! ip logging procedures i'm seeing what you do !  Cool dirty dirty
229  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Service Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Just-Dice.com : Invest in 1% House Edge Dice Game on: October 18, 2013, 10:22:33 PM
NOT AT ALL THIS GUY IS RIPPING US OFF!! -->(SOMEONE TURN OUT THE LIGHTS)




whowhenbetidluckytargetbetpayoutprofit
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 15:27:32 betid: 187795443 lucky: 85.0943 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00010000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00010000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 15:23:09 betid: 187786079 lucky: 95.1735 target: <92.0000 bet: 0.00040000 payout: 1.07608696x profit: -0.00040000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 15:20:34 betid: 187780529 lucky: 98.6602 target: <92.0000 bet: 0.00400000 payout: 1.07608696x profit: -0.00400000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 15:20:23 betid: 187780176 lucky: 95.1976 target: <92.0000 bet: 0.00500000 payout: 1.07608696x profit: -0.00500000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 15:20:19 betid: 187780028 lucky: 85.1341 target: <92.0000 bet: 0.00000500 payout: 1.07608696x profit: +0.00000038
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 15:20:16 betid: 187779953 lucky: 58.0454 target: <92.0000 bet: 0.00000500 payout: 1.07608696x profit: +0.00000038
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 15:20:15 betid: 187779894 lucky: 47.5645 target: <92.0000 bet: 0.00000500 payout: 1.07608696x profit: +0.00000038
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 15:20:04 betid: 187779547 lucky: 09.1306 target: <92.0000 bet: 0.00050000 payout: 1.07608696x profit: +0.00003804
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 15:20:02 betid: 187779457 lucky: 23.9781 target: <92.0000 bet: 0.00050000 payout: 1.07608696x profit: +0.00003804
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 15:19:58 betid: 187779318 lucky: 92.8239 target: <92.0000 bet: 0.00050000 payout: 1.07608696x profit: -0.00050000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 15:19:52 betid: 187779091 lucky: 19.1380 target: <92.0000 bet: 0.00000077 payout: 1.07608696x profit: +0.00000005
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 15:19:47 betid: 187778908 lucky: 12.2507 target: <92.0000 bet: 0.00000077 payout: 1.07608696x profit: +0.00000005
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 15:19:46 betid: 187778873 lucky: 69.4774 target: <92.0000 bet: 0.00000077 payout: 1.07608696x profit: +0.00000005
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 15:19:45 betid: 187778807 lucky: 68.1120 target: <92.0000 bet: 0.00000077 payout: 1.07608696x profit: +0.00000005
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 15:19:44 betid: 187778757 lucky: 92.4719 target: <92.0000 bet: 0.00000077 payout: 1.07608696x profit: -0.0000007
230  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Service Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Just-Dice.com : Invest in 1% House Edge Dice Game on: October 18, 2013, 09:35:52 PM
hey doog , how is this possible @93%/!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!====>


 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:00:25 betid: 187609786 lucky: 95.0435 target: <93.0000 bet: 0.00100000 payout: 1.06451613x profit: -0.00100000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:00:21 betid: 187609624 lucky: 70.7651 target: <93.0000 bet: 0.00100000 payout: 1.06451613x profit: 0.00006451
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 13:59:18 betid: 187607384 lucky: 99.9785 target: <93.0000 bet: 0.00500000 payout: 1.06451613x profit: -0.00500000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 13:59:16 betid: 187607302 lucky: 98.6943 target: <93.0000 bet: 0.00500000 payout: 1.06451613x profit: -0.0050000

Probability of losing 3 out of 4 bets on 93% is ~0.13% or 1:784. Unlucky, but totally plausible.

Or do you believe that lottery winners cheat because the odds to win are so low?


looks like just dice(ddogless) just got added to the scammer sh1t list!! >>
 Cry

 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:20:39 betid: 187653285 lucky: 88.2009 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00010000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00010000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:20:38 betid: 187653243 lucky: 72.3166 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00010000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00010000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:20:37 betid: 187653212 lucky: 59.4446 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00010000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00010000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:20:36 betid: 187653168 lucky: 44.4224 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00010000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: +0.00007368
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:20:35 betid: 187653130 lucky: 46.3485 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00010000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: +0.00007368
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:20:34 betid: 187653099 lucky: 92.2055 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00010000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00010000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:20:33 betid: 187653070 lucky: 78.2363 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00010000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00010000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:20:33 betid: 187653050 lucky: 66.8100 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00010000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00010000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:20:32 betid: 187653030 lucky: 55.2108 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00010000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: +0.00007368
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:20:32 betid: 187653007 lucky: 52.1730 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00010000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: +0.00007368
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:20:31 betid: 187652971 lucky: 68.1980 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00010000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00010000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:19:36 betid: 187650998 lucky: 69.8124 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00010000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00010000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:19:34 betid: 187650957 lucky: 68.3305 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00010000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00010000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:19:33 betid: 187650926 lucky: 63.1237 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00010000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00010000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:19:32 betid: 187650874 lucky: 14.4373 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00010000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: 0.00007368
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:19:31 betid: 187650815 lucky: 64.2583 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00010000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00010000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:19:28 betid: 187650734 lucky: 71.7847 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00010000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00010000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:19:20 betid: 187650459 lucky: 62.5767 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00001000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00001000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:19:19 betid: 187650436 lucky: 23.9179 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00001000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: 0.00000736
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:19:19 betid: 187650423 lucky: 70.9330 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00001000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00001000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:19:18 betid: 187650395 lucky: 89.6619 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00001000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00001000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:19:17 betid: 187650357 lucky: 61.6076 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00001000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00001000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:19:16 betid: 187650322 lucky: 93.2372 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00001000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00001000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:19:15 betid: 187650278 lucky: 92.8431 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00001000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00001000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:19:13 betid: 187650239 lucky: 19.5568 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00001000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: 0.00000736
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:19:03 betid: 187649906 lucky: 36.7998 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00010000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: 0.00007368
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:18:56 betid: 187649656 lucky: 18.3283 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00001000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: 0.00000736
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:18:55 betid: 187649596 lucky: 54.7422 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00001000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: 0.00000736
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:18:53 betid: 187649546 lucky: 64.2622 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00001000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00001000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:18:52 betid: 187649512 lucky: 96.4651 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00001000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00001000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:18:51 betid: 187649472 lucky: 63.8786 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00001000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00001000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:18:50 betid: 187649435 lucky: 19.5895 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00001000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: 0.00000736
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:18:48 betid: 187649393 lucky: 09.4429 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00001000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: 0.00000736
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:18:47 betid: 187649350 lucky: 43.3890 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00001000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: 0.00000736
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:18:46 betid: 187649303 lucky: 45.3704 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00001000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: 0.00000736
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:18:45 betid: 187649275 lucky: 45.0288 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00001000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: 0.00000736
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:18:44 betid: 187649229 lucky: 74.5278 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00001000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00001000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:18:42 betid: 187649169 lucky: 82.4316 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00001000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00001000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:18:40 betid: 187649113 lucky: 56.0511 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00001000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: 0.00000736
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:18:39 betid: 187649081 lucky: 49.8170 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00001000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: 0.00000736
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:18:38 betid: 187649043 lucky: 42.9883 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00001000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: 0.00000736
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:18:25 betid: 187648639 lucky: 51.4741 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00007000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: 0.00005157
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:18:24 betid: 187648595 lucky: 34.0747 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00007000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: 0.00005157
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:18:22 betid: 187648528 lucky: 53.0846 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00007000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: 0.00005157
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:18:21 betid: 187648490 lucky: 60.8756 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00007000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00007000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:18:19 betid: 187648429 lucky: 01.3506 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00007000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: 0.00005157
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:18:17 betid: 187648381 lucky: 77.7635 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00007000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00007000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:18:16 betid: 187648339 lucky: 24.1420 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00007000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: 0.00005157
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:18:13 betid: 187648217 lucky: 79.1476 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00007000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00007000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:18:12 betid: 187648172 lucky: 06.3438 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00007000 payout: 1.73684211x profit: 0.00005157
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:18:02 betid: 187647824 lucky: 21.1103 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00000100 payout: 1.73684211x profit: 0.00000073
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:18:01 betid: 187647782 lucky: 43.0197 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00000100 payout: 1.73684211x profit: 0.00000073
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:17:59 betid: 187647738 lucky: 87.0182 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00000100 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00000100
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:17:58 betid: 187647713 lucky: 66.4456 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00000100 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00000100
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:17:57 betid: 187647660 lucky: 83.8371 target: <57.0000 bet: 0.00000100 payout: 1.73684211x profit: -0.00000100
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:17:56 betid: 187647602 lucky: 71.0515 target: <57.0000
231  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Service Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: Just-Dice.com : Invest in 1% House Edge Dice Game on: October 18, 2013, 09:14:36 PM
Doog,

I thought about what we discussed on the trollbox and you were absolutely correct.  I was totally wrong in my calculations and I admit I was not thinking clearly.  I greatly appreciate the patience you had with me.  

This is the bet that started the discussion: https://just-dice.com/roll/184417807

A winning bet at 98.99% odds, he took home ~0.01134 when the true odds are ~1.14618.  The 99% difference was used to pay the "1% house edge".  Of course if he had lost, he would have lost it all.

I questioned the bet after seeing the risk to reward ratio, perceived it as an unfair situation, and incorrectly thought that the math was wrong.  Instead, I was wrong.  It absolutely is a 1% house edge bet according to definition.

It's a sucker bet, you say.  I'll go out on a limb and say that if the terms of the bet are "if you win, I tax ~99% of your true odds winnings; if you lose, you lose it all", "sucker bet" is an understatement.  I find it unlikely that a player would realize this less-than-ideal situation when they see "1% house edge" advertised.

I think the better question would be "is it misleading to offer this type of bet?".

Any thoughts are welcome.


It's pretty simple.

It takes 1% of the total bet returned, not just the winnings. If the site had a bet that paid your normal bet back 99% of the time, the casino on average will make 1 btc on every 100 btc bet placed on it. I simply suggest to make more risky bets to have fun as there's no way to reliably make a profit gambling on any odds. Taxing 1% on winnings in a 98% odds results in a dangerously low house edge of 99.98% which isn't feasible.






hey doog , how is this possible @93%/!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!====>


 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:00:25 betid: 187609786 lucky: 95.0435 target: <93.0000 bet: 0.00100000 payout: 1.06451613x profit: -0.00100000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 14:00:21 betid: 187609624 lucky: 70.7651 target: <93.0000 bet: 0.00100000 payout: 1.06451613x profit: 0.00006451
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 13:59:18 betid: 187607384 lucky: 99.9785 target: <93.0000 bet: 0.00500000 payout: 1.06451613x profit: -0.00500000
 user: tricky (195102) date: 2013-10-18 13:59:16 betid: 187607302 lucky: 98.6943 target: <93.0000 bet: 0.00500000 payout: 1.06451613x profit: -0.0050000
232  Economy / Gambling / Re: [Ice-Dice.com] Beautifully Designed | 1% Referral Bonus | Invest or Play on: October 18, 2013, 08:20:02 PM
Fixed in the end. It seems I had to put the temp password to withdraw.
It is a new safety measure.

Regards to David. Smiley

Yeah I've added a password field to withdraw requests for security. If anyone has any other suggestions or bug report please let me know. I'm working constantly on improving the site.

i suggest you send me my bitcoin that you owe me!  Cry
233  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][Exchange] Latest Cryptsy Additions, News and announcements on: October 18, 2013, 04:57:01 PM
BitLohn i just sold shares and the BTC didn't show ~ never had this happen before -help!  Huh

 Grin Grin Grin

==edit==

it credited them back it was just slower than usual!  Cheesy
234  Economy / Gambling / Re: [Ice-Dice.com] 500,000 Satoshi Giveaway for 500,000 Bets Made On Site! on: October 18, 2013, 04:37:06 PM
Quote
no honestly i'm an investor here, + i'm still waitring on that bitcoin that never showed up!
He. Didn't. Send. It! It's. Still. In. Your. Ice-Dice. Account.

in satoshis' account? ok i'll check again!  Roll Eyes

[-edit-]NOPE! >>

Your account balance is: ฿0.00007458


and he went and devested my BTC without my knowledge!!!WTF!!!  Cry

Its not in your account anymore because you already withdrew it. Then you come back and kept begging for more and asking where are your bitcoins! and all the money you played and withdrew were all given to you for free from my personal funds!

This is the TXID when you withdrew
https://blockchain.info/tx/c25868e77ee5f3d5d315d88779943bbfa5ed95772c37f21485fb4317aa3bfb11
https://blockchain.info/tx/633fc54139fc8e700f778b2994351299f856e7355c448e2ec277aabb429d115c

You invested 0.00007458 BTC and go around telling everyone "I'm an investor!" and trolling me begging for free money everyday. Right now minimum investment is 0.01 btc so if you fall below, you will be fully divested.





no i "satoshi" was one of your first investors if not the first! do you want to see my portfolio all the shares i own of worthless companies? i own maybe 50 worthless companies! you now have crossed the line!
 Cry Djvest not even! wink
235  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][ZET] Zetacoin - SHA256 coin - Pools up - Quick confirmations on: October 18, 2013, 04:30:59 PM
*imo* ---ZETTTT--- vvv/\$BTCottom is in i'm grabbing all i can@200zz any news from the dev team ?  Cool tia !


https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/85
236  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Altcoin Discussion / Re: [ANN][DGC][Contest] Win up to 5000 DGC on: October 18, 2013, 04:26:21 PM
nice work i'm buying up DGC now looking good to move up .00015+ short term imho >>


https://www.cryptsy.com/markets/view/26

 Grin
237  Economy / Gambling / Re: problem with off-chain "provably fair" games on: October 18, 2013, 04:16:03 PM
I'm apparently dumb as a doornail, because I still don't understand how you can be assured that cheating can't / won't occur.

My understanding is that the server generates its secret seed, hashes it, and displays the hash. Right is far?

Then, a seed needs to be generated for the client. I assume the clients computer doesn't generate it, otherwise someone theoretically write a JavaScript that always generates the highest possible "roll", no?

The user manually enters, i.e. types, his seed /after/ seeing the hash of the secret seed. So the secret seed is generated without any knowledge about the user seed.

What?~ you cant see the hash of the secret seed until after the results!!!  Roll Eyes



you finally made it here?  Cheesy omg /\\/

http://investorshub.advfn.com/Paulies-Pixel-Palace-2581/
238  Economy / Gambling / Re: problem with off-chain "provably fair" games on: October 18, 2013, 04:09:28 PM
My understanding is that the server generates its secret seed, hashes it, and displays the hash. Right is far?
Correct.

Quote
Then, a seed needs to be generated for the client. I assume the clients computer doesn't generate it, otherwise someone theoretically write a JavaScript that always generates the highest possible "roll", no?

So if it's done on the server, why can't the server generate several rolls instead of one, and deliver only the losing roll to the client? I just dint get it. It would seem like the client would need its own secret to insure that the server wasn't doing anything fishy, if everything is server side, I don't see how you can "prove" anything to the client except that, in aggregate, each of the bets paid at approximately the odds that were advertised?

Can we explain in English? Knowing that while I think I have a clue, I'll get lost when you start using programmers syntax?

To generate a roll fairly, you need 3 things:
- A server seed/secret. This needs to be a secret to the gambler, so he can't predict the outcome. On the other hand, it needs to be fixed and impossible for the operator to manipulate, which is why the hash of the server secret is available in advance. (EDIT: The "hash" is a function that depends on the input, but where the outupt can't be traced back to the input. Consider a very simple example of a very long number as input and the hash being the sum of all its digits. There is no way to calculate what the input was if I only know the hash, but if the input is changed, so is the hash (in 90% of the cases). In reality, these functions are much more complex to ensure that any change in the input only has a mindbogglingly low chance of generating the same hash.)
- Something that the gambler can choose/influence. This is to ensure that the operator doesn't pick seeds that give a higher than average chance to lose for the gambler. This is called the client seed. Most websites will set a random number as the client seed, but allow the gambler to alter this seed. It is important that the hash of the server seed is shown before the client seed is altered. Otherwise the operator can check what client seed the gambler has chosen and then keep generating and testing server seeds until it finds one with a good loss-rate.
- Something that changes with every bet in a predictable way, so that both gambler and operator know what changes. This is simply to ensure that successive bets have different rolls. This value should be public. This value is also called a 'nonce'. Typically, it's just the number of bets since the last time the seeds were changed.

The triplet of server seed, client seed and nonce is used to generate the outcome of the roll. The gambler doesn't know the server seed (he can only verify afterwards that it wasn't changed by checking the hash), the operator has no influence over the client seed (so he can't generate and test server seeds until he gets a favourable one and use that for the gambler) and the nonce ensures that each next bet is different.

After betting, the gambler can request the server seed for his session. At this point the website shows the server seed and generates a new one (and shows its hash, for the next bets). The gambler knows his client seed and he knows which nonces were used (since this too is public information). He can now recreate his betting session and check that the rolls that he obtained from the website match what he obtained from the verification.

The weakness in this scheme is the client seed. In order to ensure that the operator doesn't cheat the gambler, the gambler *has to* set his own client seed. Most gambling sites give you a client seed to begin with and most gamblers are lazy enough to keep it. In this scenario, a malicious operator could test the combination of server seed and client seed and pick the combination that gives him favourable results. If the gambler changes the client seed, this is no longer possible.

you are forgetting the 4th seed!!!  Grin where have you been!?
239  Bitcoin / Project Development / Re: Submit a review and get .005 btc, help listings get recognition! on: October 18, 2013, 04:03:39 PM
Its the first time we introduced a place where I can add famous bitcoin related people. Although I think I am going to re-work it.

~satoshi, pirate dread... etc etc ?  Grin lol

Quite honestly I don't see why not.

Edan Hago most def he cool!  Grin
www.youtube.com/embed/3-oySaDJHoI?feature=player_embedded"
240  Economy / Gambling / Re: problem with off-chain "provably fair" games on: October 18, 2013, 03:09:39 PM
I'm apparently dumb as a doornail, because I still don't understand how you can be assured that cheating can't / won't occur.

My understanding is that the server generates its secret seed, hashes it, and displays the hash. Right is far?

Then, a seed needs to be generated for the client. I assume the clients computer doesn't generate it, otherwise someone theoretically write a JavaScript that always generates the highest possible "roll", no?

The user manually enters, i.e. types, his seed /after/ seeing the hash of the secret seed. So the secret seed is generated without any knowledge about the user seed.

What?~ you cant see the hash of the secret seed until after the results!!!  Roll Eyes
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