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221  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Best Exchanges Nowadays on: April 25, 2024, 03:10:28 AM
Used to be super active but got burned by most of the old closures (Cryptsy, btc-e, Bter, etc), so where is the best place to trade nowadays?  I have a Coinbase account already along with Kraken but not sure of other options that may be better.  Thanks!
I don't have a better view but where are you from? I usually use exchanges that have operational permits from the government to trade so we can take it easy. If the exchange is only used for trading, not for storing assets, then Coinbase is already classified as an exchange that is worth using. Other options are like what you mean because exchanges are only used for trading, not for saving.

Using Binance is also a good choice for trading as this exchange already has a big name in the crypto industry. But remember one thing that the exchange is only used for trading not for storing the assets you own. So consider what options you mean so that we can try to provide an overview or input.
222  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: French Soccer League Predictions and Discussion Thread (Ligue 1) on: April 25, 2024, 02:09:20 AM
Winning the Champions League is a big goal for every team, and the team whose players perform best in this league will be the only champions. Since this is the semi-final stage, there is a possibility that PSG might win against Dortmund, but the next stage will be tougher. The Champions League is the toughest place compared to other leagues where every team has to work hard, Much more difficult than all other league. If PSG can win against Dortmund in the semi-final match, they will face a stronger team in the next stage, where they will be more excited and tougher. And winning the Champions League is a matter of luck, if PSG can enter the final match, they must improve their game more because they have to keep in mind that this is the Champions League.
Although winning the Champions League is a big goal for any team, it is not easy to achieve it. PSG will face Germany's representative, Dortmund, and the match cannot be considered easy because Dortmund will definitely try to play better in order to qualify for the final. PSG is indeed quite the favorite to advance to the final, but they have to be careful because in the Champions League something can happen that is beyond prediction.

PSG will be much more focused on preparing for the Champions League match and maybe they will try to rotate players when facing the domestic league. This aims to ensure that the core players they have do not suffer injuries because if some players cannot be used it will make PSG a little troublesome to face Dortmund.
223  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Premier League Prediction Thread 2023/2024 on: April 24, 2024, 05:12:38 AM
Arsenal beat Chelsea 5-0 with such a strong attack that Chelsea couldn't score a goal against the opposition. Arsenal team has the strongest attack in this match and they are currently going ahead in this Premier League competition with a lot of excitement. Arsenal have been the best performing team in the EPL this season, although some of the teams at the top of the points table are currently working hard to fight for the title. However, the match we saw last night between Arsenal and Chelsea was the most attacking one, especially after half time with the Arsenal players getting even more fired up. Arsenal blew Chelsea away after halftime with four goals in a row, and this season Arsenal are trying hard to stay on top of the points table with more points.
Arsenal got a big win when they faced Chelsea at home and this further gave a signal that Arsenal would do everything they could to compete for the title. Now Arsenal is leading the standings but Manchester City still haven't played two games so Arsenal's position is not safe. Chelsea had difficulty keeping up with Arsenal's game even though in the first half the match was a little even and the mistakes made resulted in Chelsea receiving a big defeat at Arsenal's home ground.

Now the competition for the title is getting tighter because this season only has a few games remaining so the three clubs must try to play more consistently to get full points. If one of the three misses the moment to get full points then there is a chance of being in an unfavorable position.
224  Economy / Economics / Re: Is increase in minimum wage a good method to fight inflation? on: April 24, 2024, 04:07:56 AM
Over time, I've heard discussions about inflation and the rising cost of goods and services across almost every sector on the world economy.
However, suggestions have been made in various ways on how best to tackle the menace called Inflation. Recently I have personally thought that one of the ways to fight inflation in an economy is to increase minimum wage. More so there has been a back and forth argument on these, as some persons argue that the increase in minimum wage will rise the bar on commodities, because they feel hence you increase the purchasing powers, it will have a multiplier effect on the economy which might be challenging.
As one solution, maybe that is true because an increase in the minimum wage can provide convenience for the whole community, but it is much more important how the government can make the prices of necessities more stable. For the record, it is not easy to control goods in the market because there are those who play a role in seeking profit amidst the difficulties experienced by the general public. This is where the government's role is much more effective in controlling because they have accomplices to reach a wider reach.

Imagine that the minimum wage never increases and goods continue to increase in price and the next question is how can people meet their living needs amidst conditions like this? Decreased purchasing power will also have an impact on farmers, because the harvest results will result in the absence of value in the offer to buy agricultural products so that they are used to buy them at cheap prices by distributors.
225  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: The Illusion of Trading Success on: April 24, 2024, 03:21:39 AM
You'll see them on Instagram or WhatsApp posting many signals, doing adverts for their VIP exclusive signal groups. Their appearance of wealth has nothing to do with their profits from trading and trading performance but from their courses sold and YouTube ads.
Therefore, knowledge is needed to test the level of effectiveness and everything someone says should not be followed. Trade and learn to do your best. It's okay to use other people's methods, but we also have to test. Practicing trading skills can be done easily but is a little more difficult when practiced directly in trading.

I do not like these people because, to me they are scammers. I have never seen anyone who follow them that eventually became a successful trader.
If you don't like it then leave them and don't need to follow anything they share on social media. The issue of whether someone is successful or not in trading depends on how they practice their skills and perhaps relying on other people is not always appropriate because we have to learn to understand our own analysis to achieve a level of success.
226  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: UEFA Champions League 2023/24 Season on: April 24, 2024, 02:53:53 AM
Even though I have doubts about Real Madrid's chances of qualifying for the Champions League final this season, I give them full confidence to give their best. I expect Real Madrid to get to the final against PSG or Dortmund, then I definitely expect Real Madrid to win the title.

I have to admit that Bayern Munich is not an easy team to beat in the semi-finals, but I have optimism that Real Madrid will prove their quality. Real Madrid has the experience and good mentality to be able to beat Bayern Munich, but I don't expect Bayern Munich to be underestimated. PSG looks fit to be in the final this season, but it is difficult to predict whether Luis Enrique can prove that in his first season.
Why hesitate because as far as we can see Bayern Munich is not much better than now and although the benchmark in the league is not a reference, Bayern Munich's performance is not as good as the previous season. So I am much more confident that Real Madrid will be able to complete the semifinals to qualify for the final with a perfect victory. Apart from having experience and mentality, Real Madrid will be even more dangerous when they make it to the semifinals and we can see how they play when they are in that round.

I hope that Real Madrid will meet PSG in the final so that the match will be much more interesting and Mbappe will become the fried material that the media crew will try to write about. There are only a few steps left for Luis Enrique and even if he is not able to prove his best then making it to the final is a great achievement, especially if he wins.
227  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: French Soccer League Predictions and Discussion Thread (Ligue 1) on: April 24, 2024, 02:23:48 AM
This match should be very easy for PSG to win. I am very certain that PSG is not even bothered about this match at all. They are literally the first team on the table and they are going up against the team which is in the relegation zone. PSG also does not have a single win in the last five matches as well. I think about this match, PSG actually couldn’t care less.

The Champions League trophy Is the main target of PSG right now. And they have a very good lead in the Ligue 1. It is definitely not going away anytime soon. PSG is more worried about the match against Dortmund in the Champions League competition than any match in the Ligue 1 at all. But still, I think PSG is not going to lose this match against Lorient And will probably win this match very easily. even if they do not play the best 11 that they have
Most likely PSG will try to play more relaxed so they can focus more on playing in the Champions League. Facing a team that is in the relegation zone should make it much easier for PSG to win, but PSG also cannot underestimate them because they will definitely try to fight to get much better results. For this match, I also have the same thoughts as you because the opponent face is much easier and PSG won't have that much difficulty.

The Champions League is a big target that PSG wants to achieve, now there are only a few steps left to make it happen. The competition will be much more difficult because they have to face teams that are much more balanced even though people think PSG's chances are much greater than Dortmund, but they cannot think it is easy because the Champions League is different from other leagues.
228  Local / Bahasa Indonesia (Indonesian) / Re: Apa yang membuat kalian enggan berdiskusi di thread teknikal Bitcoin ?? on: April 24, 2024, 01:50:41 AM
Apakah karena kalian takut ?
Takut berdiskusi karena tidak memiliki bahan yang dapat di bahas sehingga mencoba memaksakan diri berdiskusi dengan tidak berpengetahuan akan membuat sedikit lebih canggung.

Apakah karena tidak menguasai pembahasan ?
Kebanyakan orang tidak berani berdiskusi di pembahasan tertentu karena mereka tidak menguasai dan memang itu bukan suatu alasan jika seseorang ingin belajar. Tetapi menurut saya kita lebih baik berada ditempat yang kita kuasai sehingga diskusi yang berlangsung jauh lebih rasional bukan berdasarkan asumsi.

Apakah karena tidak bisa buat kejar setoran posting ?
Bermacam alasan akan muncul mengapa orang tidak mau melanjutkan diskusi disana dan mungkin sesuai dengan kepentingan masing-masing. Ada beberapa alasan mengapa orang tidak mau diskusi di tread tersebut, salah satunya karena tidak di hitung kuota postingan dan mungkin pengetahuan tentang diskusi yang tidak mereka kuasai sehingga lebih baik mencari postingan yang jauh lebih mudah di tanggapi.
229  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: UEFA Champions League 2023/24 Season on: April 23, 2024, 06:45:09 PM
After Barcelona and Atletico Madrid won the first leg, Dortmund and PSG were no longer favorites to progress to the semi-finals. However, the facts are different, Barcelona and Atletico Madrid ultimately had to admit defeat due to their own mistakes and they had to pay dearly for these mistakes. I was disappointed, of course and it's a natural feeling when the results don't go as expected.

PSG is the favorite to qualify for the final, even though some people think this is wrong, this is a big opportunity that PSG must no longer underestimate if they want to advance to the final. The depth of PSG's squad is quite good even though I doubt its mentality, but as a team that has good attackers and coaches, I think PSG deserves to be favourite.
Everyone has a club that they like and of course they will be disappointed if their favorite club stops progressing to the next round. Dortmund and PSG proved themselves worthy of being in the semifinals, but their journey will be much more difficult because they have to face Real Madrid and Bayern Munich. This is the best opportunity PSG has and they have to win the semifinals to qualify for the final and if Luis Enrique can take advantage of the conditions experienced by their opponents in the semifinals then they have a big opportunity.

In raw terms, both PSG and Dortmund have definitely lost to their second challenger, but football also requires the right strategy when facing opponents. If Luis Enrique can read the opponent's playing style and strategy, they can anticipate quick attacks then I am sure they will qualify for the final. Mentality and strategy will be key for the four remaining teams and they cannot make any mistakes if they want to win.
230  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: French Soccer League Predictions and Discussion Thread (Ligue 1) on: April 23, 2024, 06:03:51 PM
I think PSG have gotten a golden opportunity to fight for the Champions League title this season that might not return for several years.
Imagine playing against weaker teams and facing Borussia Dortmund while Bayern Munich, Real Madrid and previously Manchester City facing each other to select one team for the final match!
PSG have now to prove themselves and pass Borussia Dortmund without mistakes then wait to see Real Madrid, hopefully, being eliminated so they get a new hope for the title
They still have two steps to go and it feels like it will be much more difficult to get a chance to win the Champions League this season because they have to face other strong teams. Now PSG's task is to prove their abilities when playing in the semifinals because to advance to the final they must be able to beat their opponents first. PSG's advantage is that they can focus on the Champions League because in Ligue 1 they are already in a safe position to fight for the title.

The opportunity for challengers to catch up on the points that PSG has earned is impossible to catch so they can be a little more relaxed and will be much more focused on preparing for the Champions League semifinal match. Luis Enrique's task is to be able to bring PSG to the final because in Ligue 1 they have dominated for quite a long time and management is definitely targeting the Champions League title.
231  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Now that Bitcoin halving have been completed, what next? on: April 23, 2024, 05:40:43 PM
  • What path will Bitcoin chose following the halving
It is certain that we will see a correction or increase in prices after the halving takes place and that is a real reaction from the market even though it occurs through the halving process in that period.

  • If this event will lead to more Bitcoin related innovations?
In terms of what innovation you mean, is it related to the creation of a new exchange because the function of bitcoin is only for investment assets and legal means of payment in countries where it is implemented. But innovation regarding legal means of payment is not possible in all existing countries.

  • If this will lead to more people getting involved in Bitcoin
Of course positive value will always appear after bitcoin provides something real so that person start to pay attention to bitcoin's journey. person involvement in bitcoin is because there is something more valuable than the previous investment system, so person are starting to realize the advantages that bitcoin itself has.
232  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Making decisions while betting on: April 23, 2024, 05:21:46 PM
There are factors that really makes it more difficult for people to control their emotions when they are already playing or in an actual situation,  easy to say that if you can control yourself then you are good to go but the actual execution of that is something that really tough to process especially when you are either in a winning streak or on a losing streaks,  quitting is questionable as there are multiple emotions that keep pushing you to continue playing.

Only few experienced gamblers who can actually practice this type of setup, those who can completely dictate whatever happens they need to follow whatever strategy they create before entering the game.
It is almost difficult to control oneself to stop gambling and most people who are addicted will find it difficult to control their involvement in gambling. Most people are only able to give advice, but the person who plays a bigger role in stopping gambling is ourselves. Other people's encouragement is only encouragement and if we ourselves have no intention of stopping then there will be no effect. Emotions will run high when addicted gamblers experience defeat and they will try to bet again because they think they can get victory.

In fact, if you look further, to recover their losses, they actually have to stop because there is no chance of winning on the next bet. Even if there is, it's only a small part due to luck and most of it will end in another defeat.
233  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: French Soccer League Predictions and Discussion Thread (Ligue 1) on: April 22, 2024, 09:38:19 PM
Although Kylian Mbappe is of vital importance for the team, Enrique accepts the fact that he will leave the team and tries methods accordingly. There is still a possibility that Kylian Mbappe will stay in the team, but I think this is a very, very low rate. I wonder about his performance in the Dortmund matches to achieve his dreams in the Champions League, maybe he will say goodbye to Paris by winning the UCL cup. Enrique must be trying to get PSG used to him without him.
Luis Enrique has nothing in common with the previous coach and although Kylian Mbappe is an important player in the team, he does not make it special for just one person. If you look at the discussions that have been written on several social media then I am sure that Kylian Mbappe will leave next season and it will have no effect even if they manage to win the Champions League this season. Luis Enrique has made several adjustments and although Kylian Mbappe is still an option, he dared to replace Kylian Mbappe in several previous matches.

PSG really have to get used to being without Kylian Mbappe because they are a team that has to be solid when playing and if Kylian Mbappe leaves next season they will get used to it like losing Neymar or Lionel Messi. Facing Dortmund will be a big step for PSG towards the final and I think Luis Enrique has prepared a special strategy when facing Dortmund.
234  Local / Trading dan Spekulasi / Re: Saat ini trading meme coin paling banyak di minati on: April 22, 2024, 07:56:39 PM
Bukan hanya orang Indonesia, namun mindset tersebut biasanya akan cenderung dimiliki oleh para pendatang baru yang menganggap bahwa Cryptocurrency adalah sebuah jalan mudah untuk mendapatkan keuntungan besar secara instan. Terutama buat pendatang baru yang memang hanya mengikuti hype dan tidak memiliki upaya untuk membedah setiap informasi untuk mencari tahu apakah semua itu valid atau hanya sekedar gorengan semata.

Sudah jelas jika memecoin tidak memiliki fundamental yang kuat, jadi jika memutuskan terjun ke memecoin pada dasarnya adalah spekulasi. Menurutku mau menyimpan memecoin dalam jangka waktu yang lama juga bukan merupakan tindakan yang salah, asal dari awal mereka tahu bahwa yang namanya spekulasi pasti akan memiliki tingkatan resiko berdasarkan porsinya. Intinya kalo modal yang digunakan memang untuk kebutuhan spekulasi, mau maen jangka pendek atau jangka panjang tetap bukan sebuah keputusan yang salah.
Itu benar dan mungkin kita mencoba berbicara dalam ruang lingkup yang lebih kecil dimana kebanyakan orang kita di Indonesia cenderung mudah terpengaruh dengan hype. Saya ingat bagaimana kebanyakan orang tertipu dengan janji pengembalian besar saat mereka bergabung dengan beberapa kasus yang terjadi di negara kita.  Pemula lebih cepat terjebak dengan hal semacam ini dan mereka bisanya memikirkan keuntungan cepat saat menjalankan investasi sehingga mempengaruhi keputusan yang berakibat kerugian yang di dapatkan.

Memecoin hanya dimanfaatkan di jangka pendek untuk menghasilkan keuntungan akan tetapi tergantung bagaimana seseorang mampu membaca dan melihat peluang. Jika kemampuan analisis tidak baik maka mengambil langkah terhadap memecoin sebagai pilihan investasi akan berakhir lebih buruk, sebab kemampuan coin semacam ini lebih besar di pengaruhi oleh hype bukan pada tingkat fundamentalnya koin tersebut.

Tidak dapat diragukan bahwa kebanyakan orang mengharapkan keberuntungan datang pada mereka dengan membeli memecoin. Dan biasanya mereka melihat orang lain mendapatkan keuntungan besar dengan berinvestasi pada memecoin, sehingga mereka juga mengikuti jejak mereka dengan harapan nasib baik datang kepada mereka juga.
saya sendiri sebenarnya tidak ada masalah jika mereka ingin berinvestasi pada memecoin, asalkan mereka juga tahu akan resiko yang akan mereka dapatkan dengan berinvestasi, terlebih dengan jumlah uang yang besar. Bagi orang yang berpengalaman mungkin itu akan bisa dihindari, karena mereka saya pikir sudah tahu apa resiko jika mereka berinvestasi pada memecoin, namun yang mengkhawatirkan adalah mereka yang pemula. sebab pemula belum tahu apa apa tentang memecoin, dan tidak jarang juga saya melihat mereka mendapatkan kerugian yang besar.
Itu artinya mereka mencoba keberuntungan bukan melihat potensi yang dapat mereka pilih dalam menentukan investasi terbaik. Melihat orang lain mendapatkan keuntungan di memecoin lalu mereka mencoba untuk melakukan hal yang sama akan cukup beresiko. Semua orang bisa mengambil pendekatan dengan memecoin akan tetapi yang terpenting mereka memahami dampak dan resiko yang akan ditimbulkan. Pemula lebih mudah terjebak dengan hype dan pada saat mereka melihat orang sukses meraup keuntungan di memecoin akan membuat dirinya mencoba tanpa pengetahuan yang jelas, sehingga akan menimbulkan masalah pada saat investasi yang di jalani akan berakhir berbeda atau dengan kata lain mendapatkan kerugian.
235  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: UEFA Champions League 2023/24 Season on: April 22, 2024, 05:21:15 PM
Paris Saint Germain vs Borussia Dortmund will be the match in the Champions League semifinals this season. Many predict that Paris Saint Germain will be able to win this match and qualify for the final, this is a natural thing because in this season's Champions League Paris Saint Germain also beat Borussia Dortmund in the group stage. In two meetings they were able to win once and the other time ended with a draw score, although in the end Paris Siant Germain had to be in the runner-up position at the end of the standings.

This is a very good opportunity for Paris Saint Germain, because they have a big chance of being in the final and that opens up the opportunity for them to become Champions League champions which they have always dreamed of. But the problem is that they will face Real Madrid or Bayern Munich in the final. and with 2 clubs one of whom will be their opponents in the final they are not the better of the two, and it is possible for them to fail again in their pursuit of the Champions League.
These two clubs were not predicted to qualify for the semifinals, but they managed to prove their best abilities this season. If you look at the quality of players both of them have, it is natural for person to predict that PSG will qualify for the final. But even so, Dortmund cannot be underestimated because they also have good abilities when playing in the Champions League. This season is the best opportunity for Luis Enrique and they must try to prove themselves to be one of the best clubs in Europe.

Although coming out as champions is not easy because they have to face either Real Madrid or Bayern Munich if they manage to beat Dortmund. Real Madrid will be very dangerous if they are able to advance to the final and I think it is difficult for any team to beat their mentality because facing Real Madrid in the final is not an easy thing.
236  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Now that Bitcoin is no longer digital cash? on: April 22, 2024, 04:31:24 PM
although quite a lot of countries have implemented Bitcoin as an investment asset. but they will not remove the inherent definition of Bitcoin as a digital currency. no matter whether they legalize the use of Bitcoin as a transaction tool or not. If trading is carried out on a P2P basis by service providers or services with their customers, Bitcoin's function as a digital currency that provides financial freedom to its users is actually running.
This definition will never disappear and will continue to be applied and many countries legalize bitcoin as an investment asset because they cannot possibly provide access to bitcoin as legal tender. It seems like we are thinking too far ahead and what the OP said will most likely not be realized in the near future because to legalize bitcoin as legal tender requires a lot of approval from the government in power and not to mention the regulations that regulate it

The problem is that not many people understand how to use it, even though if use is done P2P it will truly provide financial freedom. Basically, the definition of bitcoin as a digital currency will never change even if people try to explain it in any way because this definition was inherent when bitcoin was created.
237  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Making decisions while betting on: April 22, 2024, 03:45:34 PM
"Knows your limit" - but it was just knowing, it is also important to stick to it. Otherwise, it makes no sense at all.
So many gamblers I've heard " I stop gambling after losing" but still gambling. Many promises are broken because we are not serious about our words. So many gamblers become addicted because they can't control their emotions and greediness.

A lot of things hinder us from being a responsible gambler, I believe this should be addressed first before anything else as this will be the main reason that brought us to the worst situation.
We should be honest with ourselves and whether gambling can bring benefits or can actually have a much worse impact. Generally, people will say they have stopped gambling when they lose, but in fact they continue gambling. Gambling addiction is caused by a lack of self-control ability and many people find it difficult to control themselves because they do not have an attitude towards involvement in gambling so they find it difficult to control.

If you are not able to take responsibility for yourself then it is difficult to control gambling, because when people are involved in it it will be difficult to limit the amount of budget that will be spent. It's easy to say that gambling is responsible, but it's difficult to practice it independently.
238  Economy / Trading Discussion / Re: Trading is not a lifetime job. on: April 19, 2024, 10:14:26 AM
Just like what you mentioned more on time that being consume and the stress that you will need to embrace while you are still in this business, not all can take that long that's why they divert their attention to other types of venues, instead of keep chasing for their luck they choose to invest to another business and try their knowledge to succeed.
Everyone sees an opportunity to make money and when we have an opportunity then pursue it because something that is fought for with knowledge will give much better results. There are many ways that people take when they are successful in trading and want to open up wide avenues to make money, with many ways we will receive many sources of income as long as we are able to control and know what to do. The most important thing is not to be greedy and if you want to develop another business after trading, you should choose one that meets the criteria that we can carry out.

Very often people end up much worse off because of greed and if we are not able to control it will actually make everything disappear. We must have self-control so that the decisions we make are really a good start for the journey ahead and don't force something we can't do because it will end badly.
239  Economy / Gambling discussion / Re: Making decisions while betting on: April 19, 2024, 08:37:19 AM
Emotions play an important role in influencing your betting decision-making process. Being aware of the impact of our moods and actively working to regulate them can dramatically improve our choices. By avoiding rash decisions driven by emotional highs and lows, guarding against overconfidence bias, and finding a balance between caution and risk, we can enhance our chances of success in  betting.

How do we regulate our emotions while betting and how important is it?
Emotions often trap people into continuing to bet even though they experience defeat and emotions will trigger psychology which in the end we are unable to control ourselves. Consider one thing when you want to gamble and how much budget you want to spend every time you engage in gambling. When the budget runs out due to losing, stop gambling and return to betting when the mood becomes calmer because that way we can control ourselves from gambling.

Bet responsibly and quit gambling when you experience consecutive losing moments. If you can do this method then I am sure you will be able to control your emotions because actually emotions depend on how we take care of them.
240  Economy / Economics / Re: The benefits of risk taking on: April 19, 2024, 07:51:58 AM
risk is part of a process, but one thing is certain, taking risks without proper preparation is just gambling, so don't take risks carelessly, you have to be careful too.
I believe risk is a way for someone to achieve success, but they must consider minimizing risk. If not, as you said, they are the same as gambling because they don't have a picture of decision making.

As long as you have good calculations, supporting skills and full confidence then don't hesitate to take risks, the CEO of Virgin Airlines also once said "learn as you go"
It is important to have good calculations and most importantly we must master what we want to do. Once we understand many things, it will be much easier to decide on things to develop business or invest. People's mistakes are sometimes they ignore the process because they think too much about the final result, even though if they don't go through the process then don't ever hope that there will be much better results.
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