а еще у них в договоре написано, если нет денег на ошибочном телефоне, я ничего не получу
и их не волнует ( их это билайн) у них это написано в договоре , тоесть они мне мозг парили пол месяца, а денег не отдают
Я не думаю, что другие опсосы лучше, но именно Билайн я покинул с балансом в -50 рублей, чему остался доволен. У меня был договор по предоплате, поэтому я в минус никак не мог уйти и не уходил, так как при достижении нулевого баланса связь обрывалась и всё. А потом они придумали какую-то акцию, типа "подарок", ну и мне пришлось с ними расстаться, поскольку этот отрицательный остаток они отказались списать... |
|
|
|
If these gold coins are minted by that country's mint than yes, they are legal tender in that country at their face-value. But this is still a foreign currency in other jurisdictions, so I doubt it strongly that you could officially pay taxes directly with them anywhere in the world except a country of origin...
Only for the face value portion of the exchange. The commodity value is taxable separately. That was exactly my point. Is it really possible to pay taxes directly (i.e. bypassing banks and that kind of things) with gold and silver coins in the USA at their market price? No. If you don't pay the commodity portion of the tax due, you will go to prison and/or pay hefty fines. There are cases already. Do you mean to say that if you pay a tax with gold coins at their face-value just like you would do with paper dollars (this is my point, and I specifically mentioned that), I will have to pay additional taxes for the income which I might but didn't actually receive? |
|
|
|
Так ты это до сих пор мучаешься? Я думал, уже всё давно разрешилось...
Я на пробу через btc-trade.ru (у них есть тут тема) попробовал чутка монет в рубли конвертнуть, меня в принципе всё устроило, кроме комиссии, конечно. Курс сразу фиксируется как биткоина, так и доллара, очень удобно...
если бы там перевел не туда ты бы тоже мучался не мало )) при переводе туда - деньги за 1-но подтверждение приходят так что не понятно чем ты радуешься Дейсик посмотрел их - у них задержки по 7 часов - это нормально? и 4% комиссия У них есть банковские переводы, это именно то, что мне (как и многим другим людям) нужно. Комиссия по ним 3% и это комиссия всей цепочки - от биткоина до рубля (можно заявить скидку 0.3%, если есть возможность подождать больше 12 часов). Банковские переводы вообще редко какие банки оперативно делают. Например, Русский Стандарт оперативно отправляет деньги, а зачисляет всегда только на следующий день послеобеда (про Сбер я вообще молчу)... |
|
|
|
Я хочу писать сообщения. О, походу получилось.
Тогда вопрос: Почему биткоин так высоко котируется, но так не долго. Многие советую вкладываться в него, но ничего не мешает ему завтра же упасть обратно на 200 баксов. Я правильно понимаю?
Хорошо если до 200 баксов, а то как бы он до 20 не упал... Объём реальной экономики слишком маленький (товары плюс услуги), в основном спекуляция, поэтому и видим такую безумную волатильность Если кто хочет бесплатно поднять монет, здесь можно каждый час бесплатно поиграться (ссылка реферальная, честно предупреждаю, поскольку сам играюсь), теоретически можно с вероятностью 1/10000 выиграть 0.2+ биткоина зараз. Мне, правда, пока с таким выигрышем каждый раз обламывается, может кому и повезёт... |
|
|
|
напиши плиз, с чего (название номер\счет) ты переводил деньги на этот номер и точную сумму, я сегодня сам схожу в билайн
можно в личку
Если не затруднит, потом отпишись сюда, чем всё закончится (вернутся деньги или нет)... всю инфу мне дал, заявку билайн принял, теперь только ждать 7 дней, но самое печально там написано в договоре, если на том телефоне нет денег мне ничего не вернут Так ты это до сих пор мучаешься? Я думал, уже всё давно разрешилось... Я на пробу через btc-trade.ru (у них есть тут тема) попробовал чутка монет в рубли конвертнуть, меня в принципе всё устроило, кроме комиссии, конечно. Курс сразу фиксируется как биткоина, так и доллара, очень удобно... |
|
|
|
I would look at the price of Bitcoin as very irrelevant to long-term success/adoption, other than maybe bursts of media attention whenever an ATH catches interest.
The central economic planning that controls almost the entire world right now is basically a gigantic bubble-creation machine. QE and other such monetary policy strategies throw the rate of return on savings into the negative, and the artificially-low interest rates create an almost endless supply of monopoly money for institutional investors to throw at whatever they can to make some kind of return on money produced by the system out of thin air.
Hence every kind of bubble you can possibly imagine: oil, real estate, stocks, etc. Right now the US stock market is in one of the most insane bubbles in history.
The saving grace on the price of Bitcoin is that most likely, the influx of capital is not coming from those kind of investors with privileged access to the early stages of fiat creation. There is a strong case to be made from the example of China right now that Bitcoin is acting as an escape for savings.
Basically TL;DR: everything in the world is a volatile bubble because fiat has unlimited supply.
This doesn't explain much as to why prices remain volatile even if you denominate them in, say, ounces of gold (or any other metric for that matter). Yes, financial derivatives of all kinds and speculation do contribute to this instability, but I have reasons why this would not be enough... |
|
|
|
You might come to that conclusion, but I don't because here's the thing, it's not Bitcoin that's being constantly printed at massive amounts, that's why it's the dollar losing value, it's amazing how desperately people try to overcomplicate the issue. There is also proof in this because when you look at the price of Bitcoin and precious metals everything is actually pretty damn stable, it's only when you go into paper money that it all becomes crazy and 'volatile' your again making the mistake of thinking that the dollar is actually worth something because governments say so.
I doubt that point and rather skeptical about it (mildly speaking). You can denominate price of oil in gold ounces, and it is very likely that you will get even higher volatility. On the contrary, if you look at US dollar Index which is a measure of the value of the US dollar relative to a basket of foreign currencies (see Wikipedia if you are curious), it is as stable as a three legged table... |
|
|
|
I don't know about countries (maybe there are some indeed) where more than one currency was declared as legal tender nowadays. If we proceed from your assumption that some state would establish bitcoin as legal tender, we might as well expect establishing bitcoin instead of its today's legal tender (fiat currency), right? If you assume that some government would set bitcoin as second legal tender on par with fiat currency, then Gresham's law would inevitably kick in, so why would they?
Or, are you misusing the term legal tender too?
How about gold coins etc. Aren't those a legal tender in many countries alongside with the nation currency? If these gold coins are minted by that country's mint than yes, they are legal tender in that country at their face-value. But this is still a foreign currency in other jurisdictions, so I doubt it strongly that you could officially pay taxes directly with them anywhere in the world except a country of origin... . The commodity value is taxable separately. That was exactly my point. Is it really possible to pay taxes directly (i.e. bypassing banks and that kind of things) with gold and silver coins in the USA at their market price? |
|
|
|
Starting a new iteration at 1540 posts... That was not easy last time!
Jesus, registered for 6 weeks and you already have 19+ days (over 3 weeks) online. That's some serious dedication.Somewhat on topic, I didn't know they had to pm stunna, I bet that guy with over 700 posts and counting I banned a few days ago for spamming is furious (can't pm). Yes, that was a tough experience (I managed to contribute 1212 posts during the last campaign, most in the Economics section). I doubt I could go on like that (feel very exhausted)... And I have just received my payment in full (now I'm strictly bullish). Thank you, Stunna! |
|
|
|
Backing for you is something that you redeem dollars (or any other currency) for? I remember you saying that gold doesn't need backing since it has real value by itself (nice to look at and so forth). Could we then proceed to the assumption that its inherent properties is what gives it value (nice look, indestructibility, heaviness, etc)?
Partly yes, that is the intrinsic value, same as value for direct use. Most of the value of gold is the exchange value, value that comes from people who want to hold it for shorter or longer time. When you want to use something as money, you need to hold some sometimes. It is not the instant moving of the stuff from one person to another that gives it value, but the fact that you sometimes need to hold it. It is also called reservation demand. Gold has some direct use value, but mostly exchange value. Bitcoin has only exchange value, which, for money, is ideal. Do you count as direct use (and thus the basis for deriving value) such property of gold as prettiness to the eye (as porc would say)? In other words, do you think that this quality contributes anything to gold's value, even if you personally don't find gold attractive or pleasant to look at? Yes, direct use value. But this is entirely subjective, isn't it? If you can prove that, say, gold density is equal to some figure (or pull out from your pocket a two thousand year old coin), but you can't impose the opinion that gold is nice looking on anyone because it is strictly for them to decide on that matter. They may not share this view and therefore gold will not have so much value on account of that, right? |
|
|
|
I honestly believe you should stay away from trading Bitcoins for paper profit, I don't know why so many people are doing it, the hyperinflation is going to mess with everything, you will make money, but that money is getting constantly devalued. I think the price will continue to go up but it won't be because Bitcoins are valuable but because the dollar and paper money is worthless and Bitcoin is simply reflecting that in the price, I suppose it's fine if you want to put the money in to have some coins but I'd be really against actively trading it for paper.
If we took a look at oil, precious metals, other commodities, we could have come to a conclusion that dollar is actually appreciating, i.e. increasing its purchasing power, since those things are well below their highs in dollar price terms. Some people say that it is deflation that we should be afraid of, not inflation. Maybe they have a point after all? |
|
|
|
Hint: Never trust some random currency that some random guy made, to be a main money source until it is stable, and is proven. Until BTC sits at the same price with a fluctuation of 5$, I will not put any money into it or use it as a currency. Let's mine now so that we can use it for our future!
Oil prices between 2003 and July 2008 rose steadily, reaching $100 per barrel in late 2007 and culminating in an all-time high of $147 on 11 July 2008. By September 2008 though, prices fell to $110 and then collapsed to below $35 in February 2009, i.e. more than four times within half a year... Would you not trust nature made oil either? |
|
|
|
Backing for you is something that you redeem dollars (or any other currency) for? I remember you saying that gold doesn't need backing since it has real value by itself (nice to look at and so forth). Could we then proceed to the assumption that its inherent properties is what gives it value (nice look, indestructibility, heaviness, etc)?
Partly yes, that is the intrinsic value, same as value for direct use. Most of the value of gold is the exchange value, value that comes from people who want to hold it for shorter or longer time. When you want to use something as money, you need to hold some sometimes. It is not the instant moving of the stuff from one person to another that gives it value, but the fact that you sometimes need to hold it. It is also called reservation demand. Gold has some direct use value, but mostly exchange value. Bitcoin has only exchange value, which, for money, is ideal. Do you count as direct use (and thus the basis for deriving value) such property of gold as prettiness to the eye (as porc would say)? In other words, do you think that this quality contributes anything to gold's value, even if you personally don't find gold attractive or pleasant to look at? |
|
|
|
|
Starting a new iteration at 1540 posts... That was not easy last time!
|
|
|
|
It doesn't make much sense unless you are going to use them on something else besides trading (which is simply impossible right now in any significant amount). Otherwise you inflict uninvited costs on yourself. Central banks are doing this because they have to defend their exports (as an example). They don't do it just for the sake of keeping exchange rate at certain level...
If you mine bitcoin, you will be able to see things from the view of a central banker, since you issue money. It is very easy to understand why banks do this and do that if you issue money by yourself... The first priority is always keep the value of their money stable, all the other things like full employment/price stability/international trade deficit are all trivial things compared to the value of their money. That's the reason they'd rather close their pocket and see people suffering instead of open their pocket and let inflation quickly destroy the value of their money The problem with such logic is that it is not only you who mines bitcoins. Though a feeling of being involved at issuing "money" can inflate one's ego somewhat, I doubt it will be enough to actually go and try to stabilize bitcoin exchange value (since you would inevitably incur losses on yourself). If what you say were true, it would have been done so long ago by those who have big wallets. If they haven't already done this, why should they do it right now or later? |
|
|
|
Actually BTC DOSE have a Central Banker, it is just a mindless unresponsive piece of code that is executing a programmed exponentially decreasing mining schedule that Satoshi created years ago. Yet a bunch of silly libertarians have convinced themselves that living under the economic dictates of a mindless machine central banker is better then under that of any human. How anyone claiming to be a believer in individual liberty and the free market would submit to a system which ignores the market, ignores all economic activity and ignores all human wishes is beyond absurd, it show that the so-called libertarian in America is a stooge and knows nor cares for anything resembling liberty.
He is in fact a slave at heart and yearns only for the tyrannical.
Humans are liable to all kinds of sins. There are even Commandments that deal specifically with a part of them. And I'm not even speaking that to err is human. Actually, bitcoin (or something that would be more useful or robust) can be regarded as a reliable basis for building tools that would specifically address the issues you pointed out... It's too early to tell |
|
|
|
I don't know about countries (maybe there are some indeed) where more than one currency was declared as legal tender nowadays. If we proceed from your assumption that some state would establish bitcoin as legal tender, we might as well expect establishing bitcoin instead of its today's legal tender (fiat currency), right? If you assume that some government would set bitcoin as second legal tender on par with fiat currency, then Gresham's law would inevitably kick in, so why would they?
Or, are you misusing the term legal tender too?
How about gold coins etc. Aren't those a legal tender in many countries alongside with the nation currency? If these gold coins are minted by that country's mint than yes, they are legal tender in that country at their face-value. But this is still a foreign currency in other jurisdictions, so I doubt it strongly that you could officially pay taxes directly with them anywhere in the world except a country of origin... |
|
|
|
Obviously you mean guarantee by a central authority. That's not going to happen ever because bitcoin don't wants that to happen.
You see bitcoin with fiat currency standards thats why you can't understand basic things.
No. Thats one form of backing (dollar). Gold/Silver have backing (inherent). Bitcoin has NO backing. Bitcoin has that other backing that you talk about. It's the massive value of it's network and the thousands of people's that are strengthen that network. Thats not backing. Backing for you is something that you redeem dollars (or any other currency) for? I remember you saying that gold doesn't need backing since it has real value by itself (nice to look at and so forth). Could we then proceed to the assumption that its inherent properties are what gives it value (nice look, indestructibility, heaviness, etc)? |
|
|
|
The cost of mining bitcoins has very little effect on the price bitcoins because the amount of mined bitcoins for sale is only a small portion of the total supply of bitcoins for sale.
Good point. Maybe I should say the value of bitcoin is based on the cost of mining. The price will be even higher if only part of bitcoin are circulating. If the gap between cost and price of bitcoin is wider, either the price will be pull back or the mining difficulty will soar to make the gap narrow. So when we treat bitcoin as a store of value, the value should be very much cost sensitve. Again, the cost of mining bitcoins has very little effect on the price of bitcoins. The reverse is much more true. The cost of mining depends on the price of bitcoins because if it is cheaper to mine them, then more people will mine them, and because no rational person would mine bitcoins for a loss. I would be very careful about that point. Some people surely mine bitcoins for a loss and not because they are irrational about what they are doing. They may pursue some other goals beside just getting profit (as the opposite of loss), and as long as their choice of their ends is rational they remain that... |
|
|
|
No, I love macs. BTW Don't reply to ME like I am that OTHER GUY, I'm someone completely different. Now that that is out of the way.
Macs are pretty cool. No their hardware isn't that great, but their operating system is A+++ in my opinion. 100x better than Linux of course. Not better than Windows, no. But easier than Windows, most of the time yes. I say Windows has 1 million times more customization than Mac, but in ease of use, Mac is the way to go.
But my favorite is still Windows. I know I may offend some people when I say Linux sucks, but, it has frustrated me and yes when Vista came out I switched to Linux, I even learned how to do a lot of cool tricks on it, I knew the terminal commands and whatnot, but then Windows 7 came out, I got that, and when I went back into Linux one day, omg frustration out of every fiber of my being. Never again.
Nah, windows sucks imo! I like macs since OSX is a LOT more stable than any windows or linux (desktop) version. Macs are also great because they are based on UNIX and therefore runs UNIX commands and programs. The mac is on the other hand not very customizable. Linux comes second because it's open source, UNIX commands works, it is 100% customizable and extremely powerful. I don't like windows at all since it is buggy, laggy, closed source, microsoft and there is a lot of malware to that platform. No if there weren't Windows around, Linux and Mac would not have been created. I don't know about Mac but Linux was created in 1991. We probably can't say that Windows was in its infancy right then (since it was introduced in 1985) but surely not what you mean by being around... |
|
|
|
|
Show Posts
