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2341  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Core Developers Should Be Paid on: February 22, 2014, 12:39:21 AM
Gavin gets paid, by the foundation, the reward is that they get rich. Remember everyone working on bitcoins holds bitcoins, so why get paid if you are just increasing your own wealth but making a better product? Also bitcoins is a startup currency just like a startup you don't get paid you get stock and your own work can dictate if that is worth $2 Billion or $200.

So paying core devs is a worthless thing, and if they all left which must of us hopeful, since they are corrupted by greed, we would get a new team.


Not offering remuneration to the keepers of the system is a flaw in the system.

Also this is very upsetting we are all keepers of the system not just the core dev team, EVERYONE!


so you volunteer to do the job for nothing?  you volunteer to use your millions to help "increase your own wealth by making a better BTC product"? 


you are so kind, so gracious, we appreciate you so much, now go code, code like the wind, you will be known around the world for eternity,  go now ... errr ah, what's your name again?

hahahahaaaaa

What do you do to progress the future of bitcoin to make it worth more to yourself and others? I helped build services, I chose a different path. I could be a core dev team member but obviously my views don't line up with theirs.

Also I don't use bitcoin-qt at all, I use the version that litecoin team built and I have donated to them if you must know.

That's the point, you recognize that a job must be done, you do your responsible part to see to it that it that funding is in place to get's done. 

Then it's up to management to keep everything running smoothly, or at least on track.

Management is not need bitcoin source can live on without management. Satoshi even agreed, he viewed a world of many different ways of bitcoin working yet all using a same protocol cause the community would be able to choose.


Remove the brain of anything you end up with disorder -- that simple.

If Satoshi had all of the answers, there would be no need for this discussion.

 
2342  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Core Developers Should Be Paid on: February 22, 2014, 12:23:41 AM
Best solution I see here is make it all open source, more transparency and no need to pay developers, community will take care of it because it benefits most from it. That is the way I see it at least.

really?, and where exactly do we find 'Mr or Mrs. community, with the skills and experiences to get the job done for no pay? [tapping toe]


people want people to do development for free, to do management for free, to do design for free, to do marketing for free, to do outreach for free, to do distribution for free,  
to do websites for free, to do faucets for free, to do forums for free ... essentially everything but mining for free; then they want the people who did all of the free work to compete on the same level as everyone else for the scarce rewards.  


Amazing!

You do know at one point bitcoin wasn't worth anything and many people did it cause they want it to succeed. So yes the company would easily able to replace the core dev team, and that is how it should be, cause that is how decentralization works.


FOR FREE?


and free or not free has nothing to do with decentralization, the two matters are mutually exclusive.   Just because you are decentralizing duties doesn't mean any of them will be done free, much less that all of them will be done free.  
  
2343  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Core Developers Should Be Paid on: February 22, 2014, 12:17:52 AM
Btw if they start getting paid then bitcoin is doomed because they will do what the highest bidder offers them and ruin the coin (probably in a hard-to-notice way until its too late)



bingo, yessss sir reee bob, that's the solution: "Don't pay 'em so they can continue to do honest work for you, least you defile them with filthy lucre"  yeahhhhh, that's the answer right there!   hahahahahaaaaa

2344  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Core Developers Should Be Paid on: February 22, 2014, 12:08:01 AM
Gavin gets paid, by the foundation, the reward is that they get rich. Remember everyone working on bitcoins holds bitcoins, so why get paid if you are just increasing your own wealth but making a better product? Also bitcoins is a startup currency just like a startup you don't get paid you get stock and your own work can dictate if that is worth $2 Billion or $200.

So paying core devs is a worthless thing, and if they all left which must of us hopeful, since they are corrupted by greed, we would get a new team.


Not offering remuneration to the keepers of the system is a flaw in the system.

Also this is very upsetting we are all keepers of the system not just the core dev team, EVERYONE!


so you volunteer to do the job for nothing?  you volunteer to use your millions to help "increase your own wealth by making a better BTC product"?  


you are so kind, so gracious, we appreciate you so much, now go code, code like the wind, you will be known around the world for eternity,  go now ... errr ah, what's your name again?

hahahahaaaaa

What do you do to progress the future of bitcoin to make it worth more to yourself and others? I helped build services, I chose a different path. I could be a core dev team member but obviously my views don't line up with theirs.

Also I don't use bitcoin-qt at all, I use the version that litecoin team built and I have donated to them if you must know.

That's the point, you recognize that a job must be done, you do your responsible part to see to it that it that funding is in place to get's done.  

Then it's up to management to keep everything running smoothly, or at least on track.


 
2345  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Core Developers Should Be Paid on: February 21, 2014, 11:59:41 PM
Best solution I see here is make it all open source, more transparency and no need to pay developers, community will take care of it because it benefits most from it. That is the way I see it at least.

really?, and where exactly do we find 'Mr or Mrs. community, with the skills and experiences to get the job done for no pay? [tapping toe]


people want people to do development for free, to do management for free, to do design for free, to do marketing for free, to do outreach for free, to do distribution for free,  
to do websites for free, to do faucets for free, to do forums for free ... essentially everything but mining for free; then they want the people who did all of the free work to compete on the same level as everyone else for the scarce rewards.  


Amazing!



2346  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Core Developers Should Be Paid on: February 21, 2014, 11:29:51 PM
Gavin gets paid, by the foundation, the reward is that they get rich. Remember everyone working on bitcoins holds bitcoins, so why get paid if you are just increasing your own wealth but making a better product? Also bitcoins is a startup currency just like a startup you don't get paid you get stock and your own work can dictate if that is worth $2 Billion or $200.

So paying core devs is a worthless thing, and if they all left which must of us hopeful, since they are corrupted by greed, we would get a new team.


Not offering remuneration to the keepers of the system is a flaw in the system.

Also this is very upsetting we are all keepers of the system not just the core dev team, EVERYONE!


so you volunteer to do the job for nothing?  you volunteer to use your millions to help "increase your own wealth by making a better BTC product"?  


you are so kind, so gracious, we appreciate you so much, now go code, code like the wind, you will be known around the world for eternity,  go now ... errr ah, what's your name again?

hahahahaaaaa
2347  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Core Developers Should Be Paid on: February 21, 2014, 11:19:34 PM
Case in point imagine if MtGox had an core protocol, developer on the payroll.  We would work full time on improving the core protocol and reference client at MtGox's expense.  They probably wouldn't have been "surprised" by the changes in allowed signatures in v0.8, they might have gotten a warning that their custom client was horribly broken.   Someone could have explained to their internal development team that they were running the risk of being attacked by relying solely on tx ids.  Even if MtGox survives this the amount it has cost the company in damaged brand, and lost future profits would have paid for a dozen developers for a decade.


great argument right there
2348  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Core Developers Should Be Paid on: February 21, 2014, 11:12:49 PM
i think most of the core devs hold thousand of btc. they dont need that money anymore.

hahahahaha  ...  you tell em,

count their money, dismiss their bills, disregard their skills, ignore their contributions, and then demand that they continue working,

yep, that's the ticket .... hahahhahahaa



2349  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Bitcoin Core Developers Should Be Paid on: February 21, 2014, 10:50:09 PM
In its February 21, 2014 edition, CoinDesk published an observation made by Gavin Andresen regarding the work performed by the Bitcoin core developers.  More precisely, he contrasted the effort expended by the core developers with the lack of effort expended by users of the network, particularly by those companies that extract financial gain. He strongly suggested that "... if you are making a profit using the software, you should help develop, debug, test and review it."  His comments in this article have brought to light an issue fundamental to the future success of the Bitcoin economy. 

However, Mr. Andresen did not go far enough.  His admonition and goad to action will most likely fall upon deaf ears.

The multitude of benefits of a digital currency is known and has been rightly noted.  A cheap method of money transfer portends a new realm of economic activity, i.e. microtransactions.  In the poor regions of the world, immigrants will be able to send money to their families in their home country for pennies on the dollar.  Family businesses in the backwaters of the world can sell their goods to the world because they trade in a universal currency.  Utilization of the Bitcoin economy by these folks will increase as their access to BTC increases.

An inexpensive payment system beneficial to the common man is also an efficient means of money transfer for commerce.  There are businesses profiting from the expansion of the Bitcoin economy.  There will be more in the future. 

The potential of Bitcoin mentioned above merely reiterates what enthusiasts already know.  The point is, as the Bitcoin economy grows, as more people and businesses come to rely upon it, the importance of maintaining the underlying network and protocol grows in the same degree.

It is untenable for a system used by millions of people to transfer massive amounts of money all over the world to rely on essentially unpaid volunteers.  The psychological and/or emotional rewards afforded to the core developers for creating and maintaining this system will understandably diminish as they see the users of the system profit from the developers' work.

The Bitcoin network must be built upon a free market.  It is not likely to receive government subsidies or corporate sponsorship.  Nor should the largess be accepted if offered.  BTC must rely on itself, on the users, the miners and of primary importance, on those who keep the system functional.  It must rely on the uncoerced exchange of productive effort applied to the maintenance of the network in exchange for some form of remuneration paid by the network.  We must create some type of feedback system that rewards those who maintain and improve the Bitcoin network.

In short, Bitcoin core developers should be paid!

The not-for-profit purists among us will cringe at this suggestion; but please put yourself in the developer's position.  How long would you willing to work as a volunteer while others profited from your work.  Miners are paid to mine.  Users save money by using the network.  Likewise, the system must provide incentives to keep a cadre of core developers interested.
 
This feedback mechanism need not violate the open source, distributed paradigm.  Perhaps a coin similar to Devcoin could be merge-mined along with BTC and funded by a percentage of the transaction fees.  This coin could in turn fund network maintenance and implementation of new features.  The amount awarded for work procured could be voted upon by users/miners.
 
Not offering remuneration to the keepers of the system is a flaw in the system.
We need to seriously consider rewarding those who keep the network up and running.




That's fancy pants speak for TAX, Tax, and more tax.


Yep, sooner or later we all come to the realization that free isn't.



2350  Economy / Digital goods / Domain Name For Sale #13 ---> www.CRYPTOCURRENCYDESIGNER.COM on: February 21, 2014, 10:24:27 PM
Domain Name For Sale ---> www.CRYPTOCURRENCYDESIGNER.COM

I will consider all offers, including but not limited to trade, a partnership arrangement with the domain being my equity contribution. or good old (or new) fashion currency
 
I have no minimum or maximum, I like doing the type of deals that result in two happy principals --  WIN-WIN  deals




Yes, I have other domains available for sale and am willing to bundle.
2351  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A serious proposal for a replacement non-profitable elected Bitcoin Foundation on: February 21, 2014, 05:13:50 PM
You can't really let some new comers create the new Foundation either.

Everything in cryptocurrency land is "NEW".

The person with the absolute most exp in the bitcoin world only has 5 yrs exp;  
this forum is 3 yrs old,  and the bitcoin foundation website is only 2.

It was only MONTHS ago when bitcoin was in double digits across the board, and single digits about a year ago.


All things considered, tenure is not relevant.
No. You're new, and you probably have 1/10th of the knowledge that some experienced members here have (I won't mention any names though).


A board, a foundation, and especially a board of a foundation are inherently charged with doing the right thing, and setting a right example.  

how much tenure do you think it takes to do the right thing?

how much knowledge do you think it takes to do the right thing?

The CEO of Mt. Gox has arguably more bitcoin knowledge than 99.9% of the cryptocurrency industry, but clearly not enough to steer his ship straight,
the same could be said of BitInstant CEO, who was not only a foundation board member but also a founding member and vice Chair at the time of his resignation.  

If you have ALL OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE UNIVERSE but not enough to do the right thing, you're only good to lawyers wanting billable hours, not to the public.

2352  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: A serious proposal for a replacement non-profitable elected Bitcoin Foundation on: February 21, 2014, 03:35:36 PM
You can't really let some new comers create the new Foundation either.

Everything in cryptocurrency land is "NEW".

The person with the absolute most exp in the bitcoin world only has 5 yrs exp; 
this forum is 3 yrs old,  and the bitcoin foundation website is only 2.

It was only MONTHS ago when bitcoin was in double digits across the board, and single digits about a year ago.


All things considered, tenure is not relevant.
2353  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Boston has a Bitcoin ATM on: February 21, 2014, 02:50:14 PM
bitcoin atm's is a hackers DREAM
They aren't any less secure than other ATMs.

That may be true, however, the "real" atms are limited by the funds in them, where the btc atms funds are limited by the account balance funding the atm
2354  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Boston has a Bitcoin ATM on: February 21, 2014, 02:47:10 PM
it will take time to spread all over the world... and at least you cannot rob it phisicaly Cheesy
I wonder when we will have the first irl fiat doublespend. buy bitcoins and then steal the atm with the cash.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaaaaaa

another piece of bitcoin history in the que
2355  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Movie, coming March 2014: The Rise and Rise of Bitcoin on: February 21, 2014, 02:43:34 PM
This could be a good thing and a bad one too.
It all comes down on what it is about and how well it is filmed.


if you think that's good wait till you see the sequel,

'The Silk Road To Magic Mountain, A Bitter Truth'  


2356  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Movie, coming March 2014: The Rise and Rise of Bitcoin on: February 21, 2014, 02:21:51 PM
that will be a real cool film! iam waiting for this since 1 year! you can check the trailer on youtube  Smiley

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-3haBibXWc



I could not stop laughing when I got to the part where the guy says: 'I spend thousands of dollars each day just to make sure that I don't don't go to jail ... ' that's the same guy whose btc the feds took and is sitting in jail today (I think) ... dammmmmmmmmm
2357  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Boston has a Bitcoin ATM on: February 21, 2014, 02:16:35 PM
bitcoin atm's, a hacker's DREAM
2358  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Boston has a Bitcoin ATM on: February 21, 2014, 02:15:14 PM
Hmm so you can deposit cash into the machine and get bitcoin.  But can you change your bitcoin into cash and take out cash?  That's what I would expect from an "ATM", otherwise get a new word for it.  "Bitcoin buying station"  BBS

according to https://robocoinkiosk.com/" you can "sell" or buy btc with the machine
2359  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Boston has a Bitcoin ATM on: February 21, 2014, 02:07:03 PM
Their exchange rate was $590 when I bought, while Coinbase was at $550. I have no way of knowing if that was just lag in changing their rate, or if that's how they make money. My guess would be the former because of how fast the rate was going down today (they probably use a 24 hour average or something), but it might be 50/50. The only fee they explicitly charged was the .0001 btc transaction fee.
EDIT - There may have been a small fee and I didn't notice - I honestly just wanted to deposit $20 to say that I did, and I was talking to the people who set it up the whole time, so I wasn't paying much attention.


Coinbase btc price is highest in exchange market, and the atm is even higher, well for the difference in time it's a great deal




You usually wouldn't use it to invest serious money into bitcoin - just like you usually wouldn't use a regular atm to transact in large amounts of fiat.
The use case for this is, you're on the go and want to pay in bitcoin at one of the restaurants in Boston that accepts it (there are several). You don't have time to or can't get to wherever your bitcoins are stored, and you can't wait the amount of time it would take to get it out of an exchange. It might not be a common use case today, but it's necessary for bitcoin to become commonly used at local, physical shops.
When you're buying $20 of bitcoin every once in a while, $590 vs $550 really isn't that much - and they obviously have to make a profit somehow.

Think about what you just said.  "The use case for this is, you're on the go and want to pay in bitcoin at one of the restaurants in Boston that accepts it (there are several). You don't have time to or can't get to wherever your bitcoins are stored, and you can't wait the amount of time it would take to get it out of an exchange." 

Here are a couple options:

use the cash that you are putting in the machine,
or the credit card that you had intended to used in the first place when shopping.


who goes to a mall or a restaurant expecting to use btc, but forget's their btc so decides to do some banking to get some btc so that they would pay for the meal with btc?


 
2360  Bitcoin / Bitcoin Discussion / Re: Boston has a Bitcoin ATM on: February 21, 2014, 12:42:09 PM
The first bitcoin machine in the US was installed around 24 hours before this 1 in new Mexico. I'd have no problems using a bitcoin ATM, as long as the rates are good enough of course Smiley

but the btc price continue go down  Sad


that's where you want to buy -- low


don't be sad, just buy
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