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2341  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 30, 2014, 09:18:29 PM
concept. still testing.

- 1 m3.medium + 5 private ip + 5 el ip(default max)
- 5 user account
- each user run darkcoind(bind + rpcport + externalip)


* problem : outbound connection uses default primary private ip -> same el ip.
                 inbound : no prob.

Code:
root@ip-172-31-13-72:~# pstree -au
init
  ├─cron
  ├─darkcoind,nm01
  │   └─13*[{darkcoind}]
  ├─darkcoind,nm02
  │   └─13*[{darkcoind}]
  ├─darkcoind,nm03
  │   └─13*[{darkcoind}]
  ├─darkcoind,nm04
  │   └─13*[{darkcoind}]
  ├─darkcoind,nm05
  │   └─13*[{darkcoind}]



root@ip-172-31-13-72:~# ip addr
1: lo: <LOOPBACK,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN group default
    link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00
    inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo
       valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
    inet6 ::1/128 scope host
       valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
2: eth0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 9001 qdisc pfifo_fast state UP group default qlen 1000
    link/ether 06:1d:47:d5:1c:71 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
    inet 172.31.13.72/20 brd 172.31.15.255 scope global eth0
       valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
    inet 172.31.13.142/20 brd 172.31.15.255 scope global secondary eth0:1
       valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
    inet 172.31.13.143/20 brd 172.31.15.255 scope global secondary eth0:2
       valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
    inet 172.31.13.144/20 brd 172.31.15.255 scope global secondary eth0:3
       valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
    inet 172.31.13.145/20 brd 172.31.15.255 scope global secondary eth0:4
       valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever

There must be some virtual solution that doesn't require physical NICs ?

what about using kvm inside the linux installation, and create separate vm machines running darkcoind each ?

the vnics as you created are just for inbound connections.

and if you are behind a router diing nat, than any outgoing connection has the routers public ip anyhow :-/

That's the problem - getting Amazon (or whomevers) hardware to do what you want without having to pay any extra... Wink


Test : if source ip is specified, elastic ip(aka static nat) is working.
Code:
nm01@ip-172-31-13-72:~/.darkcoin$ curl --interface eth0 -s http://ipecho.net/plain && echo
x.x.9.246
nm01@ip-172-31-13-72:~/.darkcoin$ curl --interface eth0:1 -s http://ipecho.net/plain && echo
x.x.16.165
nm01@ip-172-31-13-72:~/.darkcoin$ curl --interface eth0:2 -s http://ipecho.net/plain && echo
x.x.14.230
nm01@ip-172-31-13-72:~/.darkcoin$ curl --interface eth0:3 -s http://ipecho.net/plain && echo
x.x.12.226
nm01@ip-172-31-13-72:~/.darkcoin$ curl --interface eth0:4 -s http://ipecho.net/plain && echo
x.x.6.15



I think it's not EC2 problem.
I have no way to force Darkcoind using spepcific interface for outgoing.

Iproute2 and iptables will be answer Grin




Problem solved, with simple iptables rule.

Code:
-A POSTROUTING -m owner --uid-owner nm05 -p tcp --dport 80 -j SNAT --to-source 172.31.13.142

nm05@ip-172-31-13-72:~/.darkcoin$ curl http://ipecho.net/plain && echo
x.x.16.165


-A POSTROUTING -m owner --uid-owner nm05 -p tcp --dport 80 -j SNAT --to-source 172.31.13.143

nm05@ip-172-31-13-72:~/.darkcoin$ curl http://ipecho.net/plain && echo
x.x.14.230


-A POSTROUTING -m owner --uid-owner nm05 -p tcp --dport 80 -j SNAT --to-source 172.31.13.144

nm05@ip-172-31-13-72:~/.darkcoin$ curl http://ipecho.net/plain && echo
x.x.12.226


Testing going on.


edit: done
Code:
tcp        0      0 server_ip:19999    x.x.9.246:16630       ESTABLISHED 16324/darkcoindtest off (0.00/0/0)
tcp        0      0 server_ip:19999    x.x.14.230:16591      ESTABLISHED 16324/darkcoindtest off (0.00/0/0)
tcp        0      0 server_ip:19999    x.x.12.226:16603      ESTABLISHED 16324/darkcoindtest off (0.00/0/0)
tcp        0      0 server_ip:19999    x.x.16.165:16567      ESTABLISHED 16324/darkcoindtest off (0.00/0/0)
tcp        0      0 server_ip:19999    x.x.6.15:16619        ESTABLISHED 16324/darkcoindtest off (0.00/0/0)


ec2 instance +  aliased private ip + mapped EL ip + iptables + user account

multiple hot NM.

Fantastic! Smiley  But I wonder how many MNs it takes to grind a micro instance (I know you're running a medium) to a halt? Will probably need more horsepower and more disk space, although I think the blockchain might be symlinked in one location between all users/MNs.
2342  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 30, 2014, 08:07:44 PM
That's the problem - getting Amazon (or whomevers) hardware to do what you want without having to pay any extra... Wink
Solution: don't use someone else's hardware.

I got an old 2U pizza box on eBay for a few hundred bucks. Has more storage, CPU and RAM than I know what to do with... I've got over 50 VMs on it... 16 CPU cores at over 3GHz each, stacks of HDs... It's ridiculous.
The tradeoff is resilience. Amazon's datacentre is probably less prone to random brownouts and has better failover scope than one box and a few routers in my basement. There isn't a perfect solution, but it's good to have options.
It's on a fat pipe at a datacenter

Haha, fair enough then.  Grin
2343  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 30, 2014, 08:03:31 PM
That's the problem - getting Amazon (or whomevers) hardware to do what you want without having to pay any extra... Wink
Solution: don't use someone else's hardware.

I got an old 2U pizza box on eBay for a few hundred bucks. Has more storage, CPU and RAM than I know what to do with... I've got over 50 VMs on it... 16 CPU cores at over 3GHz each, stacks of HDs... It's ridiculous.

The tradeoff is resilience. Amazon's datacentre is probably less prone to random brownouts and has better failover scope than one box and a few routers in my basement. There isn't a perfect solution, but it's good to have options.
2344  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 30, 2014, 07:56:34 PM
concept. still testing.

- 1 m3.medium + 5 private ip + 5 el ip(default max)
- 5 user account
- each user run darkcoind(bind + rpcport + externalip)


* problem : outbound connection uses default primary private ip -> same el ip.
                 inbound : no prob.

Code:
root@ip-172-31-13-72:~# pstree -au
init
  ├─cron
  ├─darkcoind,nm01
  │   └─13*[{darkcoind}]
  ├─darkcoind,nm02
  │   └─13*[{darkcoind}]
  ├─darkcoind,nm03
  │   └─13*[{darkcoind}]
  ├─darkcoind,nm04
  │   └─13*[{darkcoind}]
  ├─darkcoind,nm05
  │   └─13*[{darkcoind}]



root@ip-172-31-13-72:~# ip addr
1: lo: <LOOPBACK,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN group default
    link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00
    inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo
       valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
    inet6 ::1/128 scope host
       valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
2: eth0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 9001 qdisc pfifo_fast state UP group default qlen 1000
    link/ether 06:1d:47:d5:1c:71 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
    inet 172.31.13.72/20 brd 172.31.15.255 scope global eth0
       valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
    inet 172.31.13.142/20 brd 172.31.15.255 scope global secondary eth0:1
       valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
    inet 172.31.13.143/20 brd 172.31.15.255 scope global secondary eth0:2
       valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
    inet 172.31.13.144/20 brd 172.31.15.255 scope global secondary eth0:3
       valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
    inet 172.31.13.145/20 brd 172.31.15.255 scope global secondary eth0:4
       valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever

There must be some virtual solution that doesn't require physical NICs ?

what about using kvm inside the linux installation, and create separate vm machines running darkcoind each ?

the vnics as you created are just for inbound connections.

and if you are behind a router diing nat, than any outgoing connection has the routers public ip anyhow :-/

That's the problem - getting Amazon (or whomevers) hardware to do what you want without having to pay any extra... Wink
2345  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 30, 2014, 07:39:26 PM
concept. still testing.

- 1 m3.medium + 5 private ip + 5 el ip(default max)
- 5 user account
- each user run darkcoind(bind + rpcport + externalip)


* problem : outbound connection uses default primary private ip -> same el ip.
                 inbound : no prob.

Code:
root@ip-172-31-13-72:~# pstree -au
init
  ├─cron
  ├─darkcoind,nm01
  │   └─13*[{darkcoind}]
  ├─darkcoind,nm02
  │   └─13*[{darkcoind}]
  ├─darkcoind,nm03
  │   └─13*[{darkcoind}]
  ├─darkcoind,nm04
  │   └─13*[{darkcoind}]
  ├─darkcoind,nm05
  │   └─13*[{darkcoind}]



root@ip-172-31-13-72:~# ip addr
1: lo: <LOOPBACK,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN group default
    link/loopback 00:00:00:00:00:00 brd 00:00:00:00:00:00
    inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo
       valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
    inet6 ::1/128 scope host
       valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
2: eth0: <BROADCAST,MULTICAST,UP,LOWER_UP> mtu 9001 qdisc pfifo_fast state UP group default qlen 1000
    link/ether 06:1d:47:d5:1c:71 brd ff:ff:ff:ff:ff:ff
    inet 172.31.13.72/20 brd 172.31.15.255 scope global eth0
       valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
    inet 172.31.13.142/20 brd 172.31.15.255 scope global secondary eth0:1
       valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
    inet 172.31.13.143/20 brd 172.31.15.255 scope global secondary eth0:2
       valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
    inet 172.31.13.144/20 brd 172.31.15.255 scope global secondary eth0:3
       valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
    inet 172.31.13.145/20 brd 172.31.15.255 scope global secondary eth0:4
       valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever

There must be some virtual solution that doesn't require physical NICs ?
2346  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 30, 2014, 03:47:38 PM
2a) Too many non-complying pools and bad actors is likely throwing a monkey wrench in planning. People are worried about what will happen without a supermajority consensus. How do we get pools to comply? How do we pull off the actual fork (since that's what enforcement is, essentially) without a very strong consensus? Will checkpointing (and the centralization that it implies) be necessary to pull this off? These questions aren't insoluble, they're just on everybody's mind.

So you guys know, there is a solution to the non-compliance issue, but as I think I said in a prior post, it's not something Evan wants to implement.

From an email:

Quote from: Evan
I could also write code to blacklist blocks from bad pools using the
checkpointing code as a solution. So cheating pools would risk being
shut down, but that gives me too much power I think.

From another email regarding what went into RC3:

Quote from: Evan
RC3 includes the spork logic, massive masternode revamping/bug fixes
and non-enforced payments.

So no official support for stacked payments at this time.

Regarding RC4's anonymity enhancements - it is an elegant addition to the anon layers that already exist in Darksend, and it will be worth the wait.

There is another fantastic feature in the pipeline that (to my knowledge) nobody in cryptocurrency has even considered to this point, but again, the time is not yet right to release details on these things.

There is simply nothing to pump right now.  Over the next few weeks you'll start to get glimpses, but anything beyond that is premature at this point.

Tantalising! Smiley

But I think Evan should indulge in God Mode just a little bit on the update dodgers.
2347  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 30, 2014, 03:44:05 AM
Assuming everything is working as intended, you are correct. At this point my concern is that there may be a bug in voting. At least one MN has been paid FOURTEEN TIMES (XwSPJo3v4253WqS7kRFm7Huo3gDojRWuev). I mean there's "variance" and there's "winning the lotto."

Still too early to worry about variance. I stand at 2,4,0,9

More worried about the percentage of unpaid blocks, which if anything is getting worse. Roll on enforcement!
2348  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 30, 2014, 03:39:11 AM
@ splawik21 + CryptoPleb: Trust your daemon.

My most-frequently payed masternode has been greyed out on chaeplins site for two days, recieving payments just fine. Have a look at https://elbzo.net/masternodes.html all mine are shown active there.

I have added one 10.11.5 server as sv06 which is testnet NOMP, and have changed version of sv03 from 9.11.5 to 10.11.5.

https://elbzo.net/masternodes.htm use 10.11.5 for drkmn01 ~ drkmn08 and 9.11.5 for p2pool.

My MN that has been greyed out is now showing green on sv03. Smiley
2349  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 30, 2014, 03:06:36 AM
MN count is now 522. ROI is around 40% over 12 months.
I used this command and found 454 with a status of : 1.

darkcoind masternode list | grep "\: 1" | wc -l


Yep, I get 455 as of right now.
2350  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 29, 2014, 10:55:44 PM
@ splawik21 + CryptoPleb: Trust your daemon.

My most-frequently payed masternode has been greyed out on chaeplins site for two days, recieving payments just fine. Have a look at https://elbzo.net/masternodes.html all mine are shown active there.
I get darkcoin.io unlisted and p2pool inactive the rest are all green
Hope to see some payments on these which didn`t received yet so I could sleep easly that all is OK Smiley

You're all good, don't mess about with it would be my advice, just be patient, quite a few MNs have yet to get paid, including one of mine.
2351  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 29, 2014, 10:46:48 PM
The sooner enforcement can be safely turned on the better. Take a look at http://drk.poolhash.org/poolhash.html right now - half the screen is filled with unpaid masternodes from pool ops who are never going to voluntarily update. They are clearly too stupid to see the long term benefits of masternodes.

Excommunicate them with extreme prejudice.
2352  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 29, 2014, 10:37:13 PM
@ splawik21 + CryptoPleb: Trust your daemon.

My most-frequently payed masternode has been greyed out on chaeplins site for two days, recieving payments just fine. Have a look at https://elbzo.net/masternodes.html all mine are shown active there.
2353  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 29, 2014, 10:23:23 PM
I hope Evan does Ninja-Enforcement kinda like Ninja-darkcoind-0.10.11.5 - "Oh, BTW, Enforcement has been on for 12 hours, working fine, and I didn't tell anybody. How ya like them apples?"

 Grin

I imagine there would be much wailing and gnashing of teeth, and the dunderheads would suddenly find the two minutes it takes to upgrade...
2354  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 29, 2014, 04:17:37 PM
Variance... is a bitch!!

But its raining DRK, hallelujah !!!

3 MN's, exact same config, fired up virtually at the same time. (1k deposit timestamp is not the fire up time).

MN1



MN2



MN3



So thats... 8 payouts, 3 nodes, 3 days = 0,8888 drk/node/day
Which is absolutely spot on, even above theoretical average since enforcement is not on.

Huge variance, but only time will evens the odds.

I've got 2,4,0,7 on my four.

The one with 7 is still greyed out on chaeplin's list but OK on elbzo.net except for 'Unlisted' in the darkcoin.io column.

Moral: if your daemon says :1, you're shiny.
2355  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 28, 2014, 11:25:01 PM
waaa ... waaaa ... waaaaa ... waaaaaaaaa ...

Is someone paying you by wordcount?  Grin

2356  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 28, 2014, 10:07:44 PM
But they are afraid to even mention the word "bitcoin" for fear of reprisal, and won't even take my calls after having brought it up because they're so fucking afraid of what will be done to them.

Things aren't quite so bad yet here in Europe.

I'm in the very fortunate position of being able to dictate payment method to clients. By doing so, in my own small way I spread the word. I've been pleasantly surprised how many people have been instantly receptive to the concept of ecash that the government can't steal.  Smiley
2357  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 28, 2014, 10:00:06 PM
And what market sectors are you talking about that require this additional secrecy?  How is their privacy compromised today?

I keep hearing this argument about businesses using Darkcoin to prevent their competitors from knowing what they are doing but I don't hear of any practical examples as to why  businees would benefitt from Darkcoin.  Please elaborate on this as It's been a talking point for some time but I don't see it as a valid argument for why Darkcoin is going to be widely adopted.  

Really?

You and I are competitors. If you use bitcoin I can, with a little effort, deduce who your suppliers are and what you're paying them, and who you're customers are and what their spend with you is.

Information has value. Ever hear of Google or Facebook?

I don't see that as an argument for adopting Darkcoin.  Businesses will just continue to use standard banking services.

Business to business adoption of cryptocurrency is a long ways off.  Businesses need professional services.   If the recent fork fiasco's, poor management and poor communication are any indication of how Darkcoin will operate in the future then it is definitely not a candidate for business adoption.  Would you trust your money with an entity that can't even communicate effectively?  Over six months and there still isn't a focused, professional communicator for Darkcoin.  Darkcoin will never be adopted by any legitimate business until it starts acting like a business itself, communicates effectively, and conducts itself in a professional manner.  Right now it more closely resembles a ragtag group of high school misfits conducting a science experiment than anything else.  

Has every venture of your own been instantly perfect?

Darkcoin has a long way to go, I'm the first to admit it. But Evan and team are doing something new here, getting a real world system right takes time, and mistakes happen. What separates winners from losers is how they deal with adversity, and Evan has made the right call every time.

Getting your arse kicked will teach you how to fight, or it will make a perpetual victim of you, it depends on the person. I trust the Darkcoin developers more now than before the first two RC3 attempts, because they learned, adapted, improved.

So many people refuse to do that, or they've been brainwashed into thinking they can't, or worst of all, they shouldn't have to.
2358  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 28, 2014, 09:35:28 PM
And what market sectors are you talking about that require this additional secrecy?  How is their privacy compromised today?

I keep hearing this argument about businesses using Darkcoin to prevent their competitors from knowing what they are doing but I don't hear of any practical examples as to why  businees would benefitt from Darkcoin.  Please elaborate on this as It's been a talking point for some time but I don't see it as a valid argument for why Darkcoin is going to be widely adopted.  

Really?

You and I are competitors. If you use bitcoin I can, with a little effort, deduce who your suppliers are and what you're paying them, and who you're customers are and what their spend with you is.

Information has value. Ever hear of Google or Facebook?
2359  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 28, 2014, 09:31:05 PM
My MN has been running almost 72 hours and has still not received a payment. It shows up on every list, and "darkcoind masternode list" shows ":1" by my IP.

When I'm watching my debug log I do occasionally see "peer=xxx says we are misbehaving 20." Any idea what that means and if it has an effect?

Thanks!

Patience! One of my MNs still hasn't been paid either. It will come.

Ignore the 'misbehaving' thing, I get that too on MNs that have been paid. If your daemon reports ':1' you're good.
2360  Alternate cryptocurrencies / Announcements (Altcoins) / Re: [ANN][DRK] DarkCoin | First Anonymous Coin | First X11 | First DGW | Fork for Masternode Payment on: June 28, 2014, 09:26:42 PM
Currently the only coin that can actually be used for purchases of any significance in the real world is bitcoin and it will likely remain that way for some time.  Even if they get all the bugs worked out for the masternode network, where are you going to spend DRK?  Legitimate retailers are already moving towards bitcoin as is venture capital and wall street.  It's all fine and dandy to root for your team, in this case coin.  But people need to realize that there is not a venue to use this coin at.  The anonymity will prevent a majority of vendors from all sectors from using it.  And cryptonote coins have more apeal for the btc rich old timers that rarely venture outside of their bitcoin world.  I see Darkcoin as a neat experiment without any practical application once it's finished other than providing masternode operators some income at the expense of the lowly miner.
I think you're almost perfectly wrong here. BTC has seen truly pitiful retailer/b2b adoption because it's an open book. DRK lets businesses transact almost freely (who likes paying credit card processors, or, gods forbid, paypal?) and maintain their privacy at the same time. I think places to spend DRK will be appearing at a far faster rate than with BTC.
You're both right because you're both wrong.

It is the intrinsic qualities of crypto in general, and BTC's First Mover advantage that give BTC it's position and acceptance.

It does suck for transparency. But it is the only show in town and the value inherent to crypto trump it's failings, so it remains the only show in town.

Being the only show in town is a false statement. But it appears true to the unwashed masses because they don't understand altcoins, and so many are shitcoins that the few that dabble usually don't step into the hot tub.

Until some creme rises to the top, the 'good enough' and widely entrenched will still rule. So, the fact that stupid people exist makes BTC effectively the only show in town. It is such a good thing and gets most of the job right, and until the ripples of it's shortcomings are more exposed and understood by the stupid masses, it will stay top dog.

Look at it this way. BTC is a 9 out of 10. Fiat is a 2. DRK is a 10. BTC gave the world such a huge improvement that most people still can't even wrap their head around BTC. How can you expect them to figure out the improvements made to BTC by DRK in such rapid succession? They haven't even figured out 1/10th of BTCs benefits yet. The majority are still choosing denial and name-calling because they don't want to admit that they can't figure it out. I still see the amazingly fucking dumb argument of "but it's not backed by anything" and "it hasn't got a central issuing authority" bandied about... Spectacularly fuckin' stupid! Until the majority figures out that these are good things, not bad things, there's no chance for them to move on to even better things.

these are people for whom using a smartphone is a joke... They can't use it. They have no fucking clue what to do with it. They just want to look cool; the iPhone market. This is why GuvCoin/CoerCoin will never exist; you can't force people to comply with a technology they are hopelessly unable to understand. It would be like passing a law forcing everyone to be physicists. The politicians themselves would all end up in prison becasue they would prove their own stupidity and violation of that law by passing that law in the first place...

It's the same as the Huxley vs Orwell argument. They've both wrong because they're both right... It isn't one idea or the other. It's both at the same time... The Huxlian begets the Orwellian, and vice versa.

You're both right and wrong.  Tongue

The great unwashed don't need to have a clue if the bright (and greedy) minds adopt crypto on a wider scale. When ebay and Amazon start accepting BTC, Joe Dunderhead is eventually going to take notice, particularly if he gets a 1% discount because that business passes on some of the savings. That 2.5% CC surcharge is going to be a thing of the past. And because DRK is built on top of the Bitcoin protocol, it's trivial for any business to accept both.

Of course this may not come to pass overnight, but I think it's inevitable. Businesses exist to make money, they'll murder their grannies for a 1% advantage. Particularly when times are hard and margins are paper thin.

I'm forging a path - right now I accept payment in DRK or BTC only for my services.  Grin
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