Why should I bind myself in any way by listing any laws? When you interact with people you rely primarily on your instincts, not on however short a list of laws. Our social nature has already given us everything to talk or do things with other people. In fact, these laws you refer to are nothing more than just a formal expression of that social nature of humans...
Thanks. You just agreed with me. codified law is unnecessary in non defective humans. Not much you can do about psychopaths except to avoid them and defend yourself where the need arises. But governments absolutely NEED psychopaths in order to function. Thus the need for laws. Yes, laws are needed to defend you from such psychopaths as well. And to defend them in some degree from lawlessness and outrage. That's why we need codified law as well as trials and lawyers. Even if we don't need written laws to do things with other people, we need law when we do things to other people... |
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all six of one and half a dozen of the other also i just cant let this slide. what you are saying here is that a situation where you have no choice of who to pay and the person you pay says "either pay us Y amount of money or else we will hurt you" is exactly the same situation as being able to chose to pay any one of a thousand agencies where the agency you chose says "either pay us amount Y or else someone other than us may hurt you." Is what i quoted up there is you claiming that these are functionally identical situations? i just want to be clear on that point. It's very simple really. I just don't believe that in the situation you describe here you will actually have that option of free choosing between a thousand agencies. In some weaker states, you often have to pay local criminal gangs besides officially established taxes so that they would just leave you alone. Your situation could be even worse than that if it ever came to reality, because you might actually end up paying many "agencies" ab invito... |
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who you need physical protection from are people who are both "bad guys" but also live only in the moment and dont care at all about the future. these people can not be controlled through threats of ostracism. these people have to be physically subdued while they are in the process of rampaging. fortunately this is a relatively small cross section so protecting yourself from such a small group of people would be relatively inexpensive, also you could just chose to carry a firearm instead of buying protection.
What are you going to do with them, provided they don't get to killing anybody? Should they be shot in sight, put to jail, sent to reservations or left alone really? Would you have to use violence towards thieves, for example? In short, will there be a judiciary, penitentiary and law enforcing systems, or you would rather stick to lynch law alone without official trial according to the established order? |
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For protection against people with extraordinarily low time preference.
Didn't quite get what you mean here, but aren't these wicked people the same bad guys that the state should protect us, good boys, from? But no im not talking about run of the mill "bad guys". most bad guys are self interested and care about the future. in a free society you wouldnt need to purchase protection from them because they can be controlled through threats of social ostracism. What prevents them from being controlled through threats of social ostracism right now? Do states explicitly prohibit ostracism or make you keep connections with bad guys? Unless you provide strong evidence confirming your position, I would think there is nothing that would constrain my desire to stay away from the dregs of society. And don't say that those bad guys are government themselves (this would make your argument circular)... |
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That guy seems to be impossible to explain this. His argument is now reduced to the assertion that Bitcoin will fail because of paperwork businesses would have to fill out for exchange rate gains. I hope somebody would come here and explain it in detail whether it actually requires that much work and how often
Personally, I don't believe him but have no experience in this field to refute with competence...
Is it so difficult to understand. You will need to record the USD/BTC rate on every transaction. Here the problem starts, which exchange rate are you using ? The Goxed or the Stamped one ? Don´t forget the timestamp of the transaction needs to be matched with the price at the point of exchange of goods. Just imagine you would do 100 transactions as a merchant a day.... What you say are the problems we already have today (and had yesterday), there is nothing new. Then how do we handle them right now and how is Bitcoin different from any other foreign currency we have to work with? These problems are technical issues only. If such a need does arise, they will be fixed pretty soon through automation and what not. Do you think that payment systems like Visa or MasterCard or whatever are less intricate inside? |
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I don't think that China will win. If anything, she will be nuked into the Stone Age.
China will be vulnerable against nuke attacks by the allies of Japan (read the US). China doesn't have the capacity to successfully counter an American nuclear attack (either missle-based or aircraft-based). Also, it doesn't have the capacity to strike back at the US. The Chinese ICBMs are noway near the American and Russian ICBMs. I wonder what would happen if Japan started bullying Russia over disputed islands of South Sakhalin which were taken by Russia after the WWII. Formally they are still at war without peace treaty signed between the states... |
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Value isn't meaningless. It's who gives it value, and whether it is supported that is relevant.
And ultimately it all boils down to what you, and me, and everyone else think about it. This is what "relevant" in the end. So I have to repeat in case you didn't get my point, value as such taken by itself is meaningless because it simply doesn't exist beyond human mind and its perception... |
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And your final comment about 'backing' something by the public expectation of value is simply laughable, no one with a clue as to the meaning of the word 'backing' would call fickle public expectation a backing, that is the exact OPPOSITE of a backing. Without a backing public expectation is like a ball at the top of a hill, as soon as it begins to roll it accelerates as BTC has consistently done. Something with a backing is like a ball in a valley, when it moves it's pushed back towards equilibrium.
His logic is a bit perverted here, but still is pretty clear and correct though its premises may be wrong. As I got it, backing up of a store-of-value is not important in itself, it is the ultimate result it produces that actually matters, i.e "the expectation that the public perception of its value will persist". If we can get there without anything that would help retain purchasing power and the public perception does actually persist, then, yes, he is correct Whether it is possible in reality or not is another question... |
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So your arguing that throwing away all protection of fraud and theft, AND all backing to get slightly better counterfeit protection will actually give a stronger store-of-value. This is absurd the huge gaps in BTC's security and lack of backing make it a terrible store-of-value compared to the money of a nation-state
What you say here can formally be reduced to a set of qualities that contribute to the strength of a store-of-value making it either stronger or weaker (for the absence of some of these qualities). Apparently, the importance of each of these factors would be different in various conditions, i.e. their contribution to the overall strength of the store-of-value may vary. You are probably right on dollar vs Bitcoin comparison, but you would be on a shaky ground if you just tried to compare, say, counterfeit protection against legal status of a currency without taking into account the actual support they provide to this store-of-value. For example, Zimbabwean dollars had a legal tender status, but did this help them much? Would they be any better than Bitcoin which lacks such status? |
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Многие интернет-магазины и прочие сервисы в настоящее время принимают битки. Осуществлять платежи ими удобнее даже, чем традиционными валютами, меньше волокиты.
Если не считать момент приобретения биткоинов через биржу или обменники. В этом случае имеются определенные неудобства и наврядли они исчезнут в скором времени.
В Канаде в реале уже стоят биткоин обменники, доллары забирает биткоины отдает. Проще некуда. Если будут повсеместно осуществлять платежи биткоинами то к людям деньги будут поступать уже в биткоинах, и не будет неудобств с приобритением. Самый серьёзный недостаток биткоина, про который ещё не раз вспомнят, это необратимость операции. Народ это выдаёт за достоинство, однако не вижу здесь ничего хорошего. Если в банке переведёшь деньги не туда, то их, как правило, оперативно возвращают, а тут даже если на несуществующий кошелёк отправишь, то всё, можно сказать, с концами... |
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Это связано со сроками вывода долларов (как вариант, рублей) с бирж. Я сам ими не пользуюсь, но, насколько мне известно, вывод долларов, например, с mtgox может занять месяц, поэтому, условно говоря, доллар там стоит дешевле (соответственно, курс биткоина будет выше), чем на других биржах, где вывод осуществляется оперативнее...
Иногда на btce курс выше чем mtgox, сегодня не однократно было, так что теперь эта зависимость не всегда работает. Если бы был возможен мгновенный вывод средств, то арбитражёры достаточно быстро выровняли бы курсы. Иначе можно было бы на одной бирже купить биткоины дешевле и тут же продать их на другой (что на нормальных биржах через короткие позиции делается)... |
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Is this service legit?
Read the last few pages to find out yourself (as well as many other things which you would want to ask about) and tell other guys that come after you to do the same. This question is probably asked on every page of this thread and was answered by me only several times already. Yes, it is legit... |
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You may call it various vile names, but to me, it is all six of one and half a dozen of the other (as I said earlier). Now, as I can see, you successfully got rid of that mental paradox that had been chasing you. So why would you, in a free society, need to purchase defense in the first place?
For protection against people with extraordinarily low time preference. Didn't quite get what you mean here, but aren't these wicked people the same bad guys that the state should protect us, good boys, from? |
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Service like BitPay help businesses transition from dollars to BTC, while removing the paperwork/record-keeping barriers you described above.
A coffee shop I frequent here in Vancouver simply enters the dollar amount for my coffee, and BitPay generates a QR-code-based invoice that I scan with my phone and pay. BitPay then converts these bitcoins to dollars and gives the coffee shop the *exact* amount they requested, minus a 1% fee (less than credit cards). BitPay absorbs all exchange risk and eliminates any "currency-exchance / capital-gains" accounting. It is *easier* for a vendor than getting set up with Visa.
This is the post I was waiting for. That argument for bitcoin to fail because of some paperwork looked fishy right from the start. I just could not take it serious. If anything, such things usually could be fixed pretty fast... |
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Learn history. Gold has been used as money for thousands of years.
Your interpretation of the Great Depression is incorrect but lets not go into this.
I am asking you why nobody is using gold (not gold standard!) as a media of exchange. (The answer is tax laws!, like bitcoin).
Because it is heavy, cumbersome, liable to tear and wear as well as counterfeiting and defacing. Actually, it is you who have to study history here. Silver coins were primarily used as a means of exchange, at least in Europe (don't know much about other countries), gold was stashed away as a store of value above anything else except jewelry... |
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Why do you think gold is not used as money? If the market before chose it to be money? Any guess.
There can be no "guesses" about it. Currency backed up by gold (or any other asset limited in supply, for that matter) had been a cause of much headache in the past due to its deflationary nature. The problems with gold backed money finally culminated in the Great Depression of 1929. After that the gold standard to which you appeal here had been quickly abandoned by all states... |
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That guy seems to be impossible to explain this. His argument is now reduced to the assertion that Bitcoin will fail because of paperwork businesses would have to fill out for exchange rate gains. I hope somebody would come here and explain it in detail whether it actually requires that much work and how often
Personally, I don't believe him but have no experience in this field to refute with competence...
No my argument is that bitcoin wont become a media of exchange because government enforces its monopoly on money with all its might. You could just have said at the start without much beating about the bush that government would outright ban Bitcoin, and nobody would be arguing with you on that point. Though this has been discussed so many times here that you could hardly add anything new to the debate and that would be boring... |
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Often you don't have choice at all. At other times you have to choose between two or even more evils. And only sometimes you are free to refuse from making your choice altogether... In short, stop trolling
with the state you have no choice, you either pay the state or you get locked in a rape dungeon to be sexually tortured for years. in a free society you can chose to purchase defense from anyone in the world who is providing that service. saying these are the same thing, is like saying the ADT home security is just another mafia protection racket. You may call it various vile names, but to me, it is all six of one and half a dozen of the other (as I said earlier). Now, as I can see, you successfully got rid of that mental paradox that had been chasing you. So why would you, in a free society, need to purchase defense in the first place? |
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Reread the thread: They force us by expecting us to pay capital gains taxes on every media of exchange thats not government currency.
Why is that a problem? If bitcoin value increases compared to local fiat it's good for the merchant. They will pay capital gains which are ONLY a fraction of such gain. If they lose value or stay the same, no problem. That guy seems to be impossible to explain this. His argument is now reduced to the assertion that Bitcoin will fail because of paperwork businesses would have to fill out for exchange rate gains. I hope somebody would come here and explain it in detail whether it actually requires that much work and how often Personally, I don't believe him but have no experience in this field to refute with competence... |
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You would have to pay something to somebody for defending you, even impenitent anarchists admit it. Why would they want to defend you for free actually? If you have never thought about this, think about it now, it doesn't require much effort to understand such things...
To hope for something out of nothing is most popular form of hope
By this logic rape is the same as consensual sex because they both involve the transfer of semen for the purpose of procreation... Often you don't have choice at all. At other times you have to choose between two or even more evils. And only sometimes you are free to refuse from making your choice altogether... In short, stop trolling |
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