Well, people are still buying things with it. In fact, in the longrun I think you could probably argue that it is undervalued. The more and more merchants start accepting it the more valuable it will become. All it'll take is one big company to start accepting it and boom. Gradual or quick mainstream acceptance will push the price up vastly. Let's see what the price of 1BTC is and what it can get you in a years time. Only time will tell on this one. I'm looking forward to the ride.
No, it is not undervalued if the merchants don't accept it right now. Such mode of "reasoning" is called wishful thinking - "an attitude or belief that something you want to happen will happen though it may not happen or unlikely to happen at all". With such volatility I doubt strongly it will occur any time soon if ever ("one big company to start accepting it and boom")... But merchants do accept it. Such mode of "reasoning" is more optimism than wishful thinking. As I said, only time will tell and I'm enjoying the ride. Their numbers are minuscule at best. And the "merchants" you're talking about come primarily from gambling industry and bitcoin mining equipment production. I'm not taking into account somebody selling a Tesla car here or buying a house there for bitcoins. These cases are sporadic and far in between... |
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When I first started out, I thought bitcoin day trading was going to be a breeze..
...
It has made me several thousand dollars now, and increased my bitcoin holding tremendously. Don't try to make a quick buck and get sucked into every panic buy and sell, but have a little patience and use pump and dumps to your advantage. They happen daily and always have the same result.
Let your greed subside and enjoy the ride, hope this helps.
I like this. I think it is a systematic approach. One day when you are out of luck you enter too early, and without cutting your losses short just in time, you are doomed to lose a huge deal of money. It is just a matter of time, so be warned... |
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The volatility you're talking about is when you price bitcoins in fiat money in which the supply is constantly expanding (fiat), we are forced to use centrally controlled fiat money because that is what our masters demand we pay our taxes in, if we had a system of free banking who would use a currency that was centrally controlled by government? Everybody would be using things like gold, silver and bitcoins because they provide many more advantages as currency one of them being a reliable store of value.
What's the point, if a price in BTC of the same service or good change in a minute to minute rate? I could sell my house in the morning and not be able to buy the same house (or a similar one) in the afternoon of the same day. The fact is the total majority of individuals and businesses wouldn't be selling for Bitcoins at any significant level, given this kind of volatility. Actually, why would they if they could just price their merchandise in dollars and forget about volatility? This has been proven so many times that it's not even worth discussing in serious... |
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The volatility you're talking about is when you price bitcoins in fiat money in which the supply is constantly expanding (fiat), we are forced to use centrally controlled fiat money because that is what our masters demand we pay our taxes in, if we had a system of free banking who would use a currency that was centrally controlled by government? Everybody would be using things like gold, silver and bitcoins because they provide many more advantages as currency one of them being a reliable store of value.
And so what? This (and what you wrote after the emboldened text) doesn't change a thing about the fact - it's Bitcoin's volatility, not of the fiat currency you exchange it for. I have already written in my post that volatility (and stability for that matter) of a currency is predetermined by the size of the economy, i.e. the overall volume of goods and services that you can buy or have rendered to you. The money supply being constantly expanding doesn't affect the volatility of the currency (just in case that was your point)... |
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Strictly speaking, it is not Gresham's Law, rather an extension to it taking into account a floating exchange rate between the currency pairs that I proposed somewhere in this forum...
Yeah I just read about that to clarify. But it does not make sense to spend BTC if people accept (ostensibly inferior) USD--presuming the exchange rate is fairIf the exchange rate was fair and only that was counted in, then your assumption wouldn't be reasonable (in fact, it would be false just because of that alone). It is individuals expectations about future exchange rate that make Gresham's Law valid even for floating exchange rates. I edited my previous post giving the link to the discussion about it. So if you are interested you could go there and read my explanation (ant its critique) why Gresham's Law still holds... |
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Is Bitcoin primarily a medium of exchange or a store of value? No financial instrument can be both things equally well. Despite what some Bitcoin proponents believe, specialization in one direction is inevitable (many people who seem to think it can somehow be both are the same ones advocating 'buy and hold forever'...).
The BTC paradox is that when it was created, it was intended to become primarily a medium of exchange (so Satoshi claimed) but the manner in which the protocol was devised makes it far more suited to be a store of value.
If it does become a significant store of value what might it be worth? Obviously we still cannot say with any certainty, but to determine the upper limit assume Bitcoin somehow fully replaced gold. Then the price of 1 BTC would roughly equal $330,000 (5.6 billion ounces*1250/21,000,000). Of course that is the upper limit and not very realistic.
I like it more as a store of value. I'll spend USD. Gresham's Law. Strictly speaking, it is not Gresham's Law, rather an extension to it taking into account a floating exchange rate between the currency pairs that I proposed somewhere in this forum (actually in this thread)... |
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I disagree with your premise. Bitcoin makes a fantastic medium of exchange (best in human history), and due to the predictability and certainty of mining new Bitcoins (at predetermined rates), and the lack of monetary inflation, it will also make a great store of value.
How could it possibly be "a fantastic medium of exchange" with that type of volatility? For a medium of exchange, it is of utmost importance beyond anything else that its exchange rate to a basket of other main currencies be as stable as ever possible. If you are curious, this stability is predetermined by the size of the economy a currency encompasses... |
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If it does become a significant store of value what might it be worth? Obviously we still cannot say with any certainty, but to determine the upper limit assume Bitcoin somehow fully replaced gold. Then the price of 1 BTC would roughly equal $330,000 (5.6 billion ounces*1250/21,000,000). Of course that is the upper limit and not very realistic.
Gold is no longer a means of exchange and has not been so for many decades already, so it is not correct to make such assumptions because Bitcoin is also used to some extent as a means of exchange (unlike gold). If we take that such reasoning has some value in it, that would in fact give us the lower limit for Bitcoin price... |
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10 zp это 10 руб, т.е. комиссия 5%, но не менее 10 руб, чего тут не понятного.
Почему бы тогда проще не написать, что не менее 10 обычных, российских рублей? Как раз возникают сомнения, что речь идёт именно о рублях, а не неких расчётных единицах Z-Payment RUR, например, по курсу одна единица к ста рублям. Для себя уже давно сделал вывод, чем больше всяких хитрых заморочек, тем дальше нужно держаться от таких сайтов... |
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Well, people are still buying things with it. In fact, in the longrun I think you could probably argue that it is undervalued. The more and more merchants start accepting it the more valuable it will become. All it'll take is one big company to start accepting it and boom. Gradual or quick mainstream acceptance will push the price up vastly. Let's see what the price of 1BTC is and what it can get you in a years time. Only time will tell on this one. I'm looking forward to the ride.
No, it is not undervalued if the merchants don't accept it right now. Such mode of "reasoning" is called wishful thinking - "an attitude or belief that something you want to happen will happen though it may not happen or unlikely to happen at all". With such volatility I doubt strongly it will occur any time soon if ever ("one big company to start accepting it and boom")... |
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That's how I was originally, so I know how overwhelming it can be.
Now that I am actually seeing my bitcoin and profit skyrocket, I don't even think twice about acting on impulse.
Granted I spend a lot of time on the computer replacing my buy and sell orders. Who cares though when I'm making hundreds or thousands every few hours?
It is your good luck then. For some nervous types it is actually beyond their mental abilities. They usually can withstand losses (though traders wisdom says to cut your losses short), but close too early without taking the profits they might otherwise gain (which in itself is very demanding on your psyche)... |
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It has made me several thousand dollars now, and increased my bitcoin holding tremendously. Don't try to make a quick buck and get sucked into every panic buy and sell, but have a little patience and use pump and dumps to your advantage. They happen daily and always have the same result.
Let your greed subside and enjoy the ride, hope this helps.
In the end, it all boils down to your psychology. Some people can wait, others simply can't even if they try to stick to logical reasoning with themselves. Could the patience you're talking about be trained? Probably, but it could take years of trading and would cost you millions of your nervous cells... |
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Actually i think that is fairly inevitable since bitcoin is far too overvalued currently.
A drop to more sane levels and trending steadily upwards afterwards via organic growth instead of speculation would be a lot healthier imho.
Overvalued in what way? It's only value is in what people are prepared to pay, Sounds like you just want to catch a cheap ride on the bitcoin train back up. Though what you say may look logical, this logic is still rather questionable. Overvalued means a bubble here, very simple to grasp really. Bubble means there is no real demand for Bitcoin, just speculative one. We can take a real estate bubble as an evident example where people would buy houses to only sell further at higher price, not for the sake of living in. It may actually turn out that 90% of Bitcoin price is pure speculation... |
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Я считаю, что на битках знающим людям легко подняться. Читал как один американец стал миллиардером.. купил за копейки битки а потом они стали стоить космос.. Прогнозируют также еще подорожание битка. Кто что об этом думает:?
Следует меньше читать жёлтых газет... При курсе 1000 баксов за биткоин у новоиспечённого миллиардера должно было быть миллион биткоинов в кошельке (при том, что их сейчас всего 12 миллионов) и все крупные кошельки более-менее известны. И это при том, что несколько тысяч биткоинов, единовременно выставленных на продажу, могут обвалить курс - кому он их мог продать? |
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хотел узнать,почему на разных биржах мира биткоины стоят по-разному?
Это связано со сроками вывода долларов (как вариант, рублей) с бирж. Я сам ими не пользуюсь, но, насколько мне известно, вывод долларов, например, с mtgox может занять месяц, поэтому, условно говоря, доллар там стоит дешевле (соответственно, курс биткоина будет выше), чем на других биржах, где вывод осуществляется оперативнее... |
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Сейчас, судя по всему, инвестировать лучше в LTC, NMC, BTC по порядку убывания. Последние дни показали, что LTC может вполне скоро вырасти до 90$. NMC удерживают пока почему-то, но я верю в него, так как подтянутся киберсквоттеры и начнут занимать хорошие доменные имена. BTC - no comments.  Последние дни показали, что он как вырастет, так и упадёт. Я сам не особо интересуюсь, но соответствующую математику знаю неплохо (да оно и на глазок в принципе можно определить), поэтому разумно диверсифицировать вложения в пары у которых наименьшая корреляция, и потом, соответственно, перекладываться между ними по мере изменения курса... |
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у меня сообщение вылезает, что 360 секунд назад кто-то с моего адреса написал сообщение, поэтому я не могу
че за нах?
Что то у меня часто бывает такое сообщение об ошибке.
The last posting from your IP was less than 360 seconds ago. Please try again later.
Хотя я только что пришёл и пишу первое сообщение с этого IP.
Дома стоит Router.
Кто знает, где посмотреть мой IP, который видит сайт, есть подозрение на прокси
Расслабьтесь, никто с вашего адреса не писал и прокся здесь не при чём, это баг фича данного форума (и ещё не самая неприятная). Логин принимается системой как за отправленное сообщение. Когда продвинетесь до 28-го уровня в местной иерархии, интервал в 360 секунд между постами сократится до 60, если мне не изменяет память, и станет не так актуально... Кто бы внёс ответ на подобный вопрос в FAQ? |
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Я закупаюсь через z-payment.com
За рубли и практически сразу получаю.
Что-то там совсем мутные тарифы ... Сейчас посмотрел некий "начальный аттестат", где комиссия на вывод биткоинов "5 %, не менее 10.00 Z-Payment RUR". Про 5% я примерно понял, а вот что имелось в виду под "не менее 10.00 Z-Payment RUR" мне осталось не ясно. В любом случае, ну его нафиг такие тарифы и такую систему... |
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David Friedman makes a pretty good argument against this. If you look at the police in big cities where they have many more officers and much larger budgets you actually see less satisfactory service than police in smaller cities. According to what emperical evidence is available on this subject, it would appear to have INVERSE economies of scale, i.e. smaller police forces provide more satisfactory service than larger police forces.
What you say, well, what David Friedman (who is him?) says may very well be true. I didn't say that every state would be perfect, but, firstly, you can't deny there is such a notion as economies of scale or that they actually work. Secondly, there is a law of diminishing returns which further complicates things. And thirdly, big cities require more officers and larger budgets not only because they are bigger (this is beyond discussion for obvious reasons) but primarily due to a wider range of specialized services they demand (i.e. more fine-grained division of labor)... |
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Do you mean that millions of USD might be worth almost nothing in the next few years? If so, then no, I don't believe that will happen.
Will the dollar devalue over time? Absolutely.
That was not my point really, though they may (that's what many Bitcoin addicts often insist on here). It is ironic to see that even Bitcoin miners (you seem to be one of them) don't believe at heart in the glorious future so many of them are trying to make us take stock in... Pathetic traitor you are! |
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