Hmmm well I think it goes more like this...
Facebook only received $500,000 in it's first round of funding by the way. The "Rounds" were at least a year apart not a month...
Good point. It's a bit complicated in that traditional fundraising models allow multiple raises with dilution of shares. With a locked cryptoasset, you have the security that no new coins will be issued, but you generally have only one shot to fundraise. That said, we've just launched a new proposal ( http://blog.swarmcorp.com/2014/06/29/swarm-proposal-1/) to postpone the second round until we have a fully operational product. This is more line with the distributed governance whitepaper I released in January, in that it includes multiple rounds and blockchain-based voting. Keep in mind that the funds for the second round were to fund related coins, not simply to build the product. We also anticipate substantially above average legal fees given the complexity of cryptoequity. ok now we can continue...
Don't think any of the rest of what you wrote is applicable. Among other things we aren't forcing people to take investment via Swarm. |
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We've actually just published a proposal on our new blog that addresses the most common point of critique. We are allowing all SWARMPRE holders to vote on the future of Swarm. See the following: One consistent aspect of the feedback received thus far is that you think our fundraising goals are too high given the current status of project completion. We’ve discussed this as a team and PROPOSE to close the fundraising at the end of Round 1 (4500 BTC) and focus on the development of the platform. Here are the specifics of our proposal: To stop the fund raise when the 4500 BTC target is achieved Swarm founders commit to release a working product with the funds raised in this round. When the Swarm platform is developed, should further funds be required to deploy it, a proposal to unlock and sell further coins will be delivered to SWARMPRE holders for vote. The voting system described below, will demonstrate just a little of the capability of SWARM cryptoequity. On FRIDAY JULY 4, we will issue SWARMVOTEONE coin to all holders of SWARMPRE. You will receive SWARMVOTEONE in proportion to your holding of SWARMPRE. A YES vote means you are in favour of halting the crowdfunding after the first round, until a vote is taken to once more open funding. A NO votemeans you would prefer SWARM to continue with a round two funding immediately after the closure of Round 1. To vote “YES” to this proposal send all of your SWARMVOTEONE to this address: 14B8L2LZBFD89EFT8CRCBQWIYKBP8G8XWJ To vote “NO” to this proposal send all of your SWARMVOTEONE to this address: 199SUQEQZ4AFTE2SE1ALLHGYXH8FUVMBMJ YOUR COINS MUST BE RECEIVED BY THE VOTING ADDRESS BY MIDNIGHT JULY 6th (GMT). On July 7th if the balance of SWARMPROPOSAL1 is greater in the YES address than the NO address we will adopt the proposal. http://blog.swarmcorp.com/2014/06/29/swarm-proposal-1/ |
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You can't do this with BTC in the same way, it's just not possible. It is possible with XCP, and it is a very desirable feature, so I think just because XCP is difficult to acquire now doesn't mean we're not about to surpass those artificial barriers.
Absolutely. |
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What do you think of setting up a new type of order using XCP that essentially lets anyone do a "kickstarter" style threshold-or-everyone-is-refunded asset sale order?
...and it would only be possible with an XCP based instrument, so bitcoin would be out and XCP is suddenly the crowdfunding token because it can be escrowed
... and XCP is the crowdfunding/cryptofinance platform built on top.
I like the general idea but it doesn't solve the problem of having to convert to XCP first. If you had to do BTC -> XCP -> SWARM you've increased difficulty rather than decreased it (although for repeat participants it could be a very significant net benefit). Very much like the idea of programmable escrow regardless. |
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Really great to see all this feedback. Awesome.
Agreed. |
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[I think you should study something, that you are somehow "redoing" and should be able to explain a difference
DACs are about new ways to use a blockchain. I think Swarm is about crowdfunding any project, for example something you might sell in a store. (Occulus Rift) This is correct. As mentioned in the first post, Swarm is building a crowdfunding platform similar to Kickstarter with a decentralized due dilligence model. Nothing I've seen from Bitshares indicates that they are doing anything close to this. |
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I just saw swarm started to accept XCP.. (They published an XCP address @ swarmcorp.com) Does anyone knows what is the rate? Any announcement about that? it just showed up out of nowhere  bump We will be making an official announcement tomorrow. |
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@fractastical did you avoid my question on purpose ?
Its a simple question, whats the XCP value for buying swarm ?
A team member was supposed to have a spreadsheet to share with these details. I am bugging him to get it to me. Will come soon. |
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I tried to get Swarm by sending XCP from my counterwallet to
1GZETJd1wy9u4qGzCVPmhpUTpRJjbp5eZc
How long does it typically take for Swarm to arrive?
I have +14 confirmations for the transaction in BTC block chain but no Swarm.....
Our vending machine for XCP <-> Swarm is not really working and best case scenario we will have it working on Thursday. In the mean time transactions will be processed manually. Sorry for delays. |
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Thinking out loud here, but is there any chance of getting a BTC proxy token that is tradable. My ideal token would be composed of the amount of XCP that corresponds to a single BTC. This means I would effectively be trading XCP but I would not have to think about the value of XCP, I could still price everything in BTC.
I say this because as I see it one of the main issues right now with the decentralized exchange is the additional mental cost of calculating things in XCP as opposed to BTC.
I am not sure exactly what you are asking for, but will XBTC do the trick? It serves as a BTC proxy. Unfortunately, it's not a part of the Counterparty core. See what you think. https://forums.counterparty.co/index.php/topic,404.msg2683.html#msg2683I know what XBTC is but it doesn't work since it's not trustless and you actually have to convert to XBTC. Much better would be a sort of wrapper around XCP that you could use immediately. We really need a vending machine that has 1 confirmation BTC -> XCP so that people near immediately get a tradable token and a super easy UI so they can easily trade it. |
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Some reasons why XCP has value:
1) Trading with XCP on the distributed exchange is (and always will be) cheaper and faster than with BTC.
2) You can use only XCP for making bets, CFDs and asset callbacks. Forthcoming complex features and financial instruments will also likely be restricted to denomination in XCP.
3) All future proof-of-stake voting, e.g. for protocol changes, voting functionality, DACs, etc. will be determined by XCP holdings.
XCP is the native currency of Counterparty and its sole first-class citizen. If the Counterparty protocol has great value (as I'm sure that it does), then so does XCP.
Thinking out loud here, but is there any chance of getting a BTC proxy token that is tradable. My ideal token would be composed of the amount of XCP that corresponds to a single BTC. This means I would effectively be trading XCP but I would not have to think about the value of XCP, I could still price everything in BTC. I say this because as I see it one of the main issues right now with the decentralized exchange is the additional mental cost of calculating things in XCP as opposed to BTC. |
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About these GOLDTICKETS. I have a few, but I have no intention of travelling. Will they have any use other than event access? If not will there be sufficient time after their purpose is announced for me to sell mine?
Purpose should be announced within the next 48 hrs. You will have enough time to sell. |
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can you explain the difference to bitshares?
To be perfectly honest I have no idea what bitshares is doing. There are so many different types of shares (X, XT, XTS, AGS, PTS, Protoshares, etc.) and it confuses the hell out of me. |
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What exactly is innovative here? What is the swarm team producing expect for a thin layer on top of counterparty? Seems like a marketing team trying to get paid for developers work. You could argue that Kickstarter is a thin layer for marketing projects on top of MySQL. But that is a valuable layer worth over a billion dollars. Same thing for the NASDAQ. What makes it so valuable isn't the database layer, it's the services on top of it. This includes marketing but it's not only marketing. really? wow. is counterparty now officially a successful and stable platform? lulz.
I guess so if people are using it to build successful things. lulz to you too.  |
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Is there a commitment to transparency regarding salaries and "agents and miscellaneous" (genuine Q, I haven't seen it)? Regular reports, published BTC addresses, that sort of thing?
We've committed to holding a monthly meeting with our advisors (at the moment Vitalik Buterin, David Johnston and xnova of Counterparty), after which we release the minutes and a monthly progress report including expenditures. The agenda suggested was: The first version should be released in the next week. Kudos for the idea, the brand, the momentum. Good luck!
Thanks! |
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Is it just me or do the numbers look a little skewed? "[If] We raise 10,000 BTC, 1/3 to salaries, 1/3 to SWARM coin launch funds, and the rest to Swarm Agents and miscellaneous." A full 3,333BTC (nearly $2million) on day 1 salaries? Another 3,333BTC (nearly $2million) on "Swarm Agents and miscellaneous". Who are these agents? It almost sounds like another salary. Obviously there were set up costs involved, but a third of all raised funds - as much as is available for the projects themselves? And for those all important projects... just a third of the BTC raised. Seems awfully inefficient. The salaries are calculated over 18 months with a team size that varies somewhat depends somewhat depending on how much we raise As for the rest I actually agree and have been wanting to adjust our calculations. Although I expect that miscellaneous costs (esp. legal) will be high, I think that we should keep them to a minimum and put as much as possible into associated projects. |
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when will IPO end?
Crowdsale ends on July 20th or when all swarmcoins are sold out. |
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Are those GOLDTICKETs proportional to anything like BTC invested/time of the investment (earlier more or something) or just random amount of GOLDTICKETs?
They are proportional to the number of SWARMPRE owned. You can figure out the proportion by looking at the GOLDTICKET you have vs. the SWARMPRE you have. |
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I like your concept BUT i dont like the fact that you value it, at this early stage @ 40k BTC (5000 per BTC and 100M coins) or 25 million dollars.
100M / 5000 = 20k BTC. Still quite a lot, but a lot less than $25mm. It will place you in the top 7 projects value wise with more value than your native host counterparty. does this make sense to you? To me this isnt realistic with a pre-sale for a project that doesnt really exist yet but in theory Here's what the Bitangels due diligence report says: It is worth noting that the SWARM team does not expect to collect the maximum number of bitcoins by selling out all of their tokens (though it is possible if demand has been underestimated). Instead, the project has set a range of price points and is leaving it up to the market to decide the proper price of SWARM Coins. This is basically correct. We don't anticipate raising the full second round unless there are exceptional circumstances. That said, I think a project like ours should be valued not in the sense of the market cap of a project, but also the potential net effect that it will have on the Bitcoin price in general.  For example, we've already had press coverage in a number of publications that don't usually cover Bitcoin and expect a lot more in the near future. Of course, large press exposure for us will lead to a substantial increase in Bitcoin price, so I feel justified in saying it's worth putting ~1% of one's overall Bitcoin holdings into SWARM for that reason alone. Although I mostly kidding in a previous comment, this ideally includes engagement with the non-male part of the world demographic, something we've been having quite a bit of success with as well (many participants in our sale have been first time Bitcoiners and non-men). So even if you see Swarm as nothing more than good marketing for Bitcoin, I think it will be money well spent by the community. More money equals more press and is ultimately better for Bitcoin as a whole. |
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For instance, if you raise 1500btc instead of the goal of 4500 btc in phase one and you raise 1000 btc of the goal of 17000btc in phase two. What do I get if I invest 1btc in phase one and 1 btc in phase 2
thankyou
There won't be a phase 2 unless we finish phase 1. If you put in one 1 btc in the first phase and 1 btc in the second then you will get the corresponding number of SWARMPRE as described at that rate.
Considering there are a total 100 million swarmcoin, How is that number divided up?
The 8 million swarm reserves is subtracted and the remainder of 92 million SWARM is distributed prorata to all SWARMPRE holders. So if we only sell 46 million SWARMPRE then each purchaser will get 2 SWARM for each SWARMPRE (i.e. 92 / 46 = 2). |
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