Bitcoin Forum
May 25, 2024, 07:12:23 AM *
News: Latest Bitcoin Core release: 27.0 [Torrent]
 
  Home Help Search Login Register More  
  Show Posts
Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 15 16 17 18 19 »
241  Economy / Economics / Re: Deflation and Bitcoin, the last word on this forum on: June 04, 2011, 09:34:09 PM
The way I see it is, that the bitcoin economy is growing much faster than the money supply which leads to higher and higher prices for bitcoins, one can verify that by taking a look at mtgox. Also I think it's impractical for the bitcoin economy to stop growing when 21 million bitcoins are reached.
Very good point. Few people see this problem. It is absolutely necessary that money can be created at no cost whenever it is needed. If this is not possible, production can not be extended. Normally, money is created by credit. Bitcoin doesn't have this possibility. Whatever it is, it's not a functional currency.

I wonder how Satoshi came up with his magical number of 19% deflation p.a. Did he study some secret economics to arrive at his absurd "insight"? I guess he just set this value because he thought 19% would be a nice annual increase of his fortune.

alexk, I think the monetary system you are looking for, which has not the flaws of Bitcoin, already exists. What do you think of the Ripple project?

Bitcoin is highly divisible, this solves the availability problem until it reaches its natural price.
What do you refer to when you say 19% deflation per annum? The decreasing rate of currency introduction?

Checked out the earliest edits on the Ripple Project, apparently it's been going since 2006, what is it's current USD exchange rate?
242  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: 6990 rig setup help (b) on: June 04, 2011, 09:13:18 PM
Well I am learning a lot. Feels like I'm 14 again Cheesy

I also have my doubts if the power supply will supply a 3rd card now, but we'll test and see, maybe have them all under-perform until we can source more juice.

Great fun this mining business!

243  Economy / Economics / I'm soooo sick of this nonsense on: June 04, 2011, 08:34:54 PM
My municipality have 2ce in the last 6 months levied a 4000 ZAR (571 USD) amount against municipal account. The first time they took it because they said I was a high risk client (I was behind 1600 ZAR) and that the 4000 ZAR was a deposit (of sorts). The second amount does not seem to have contributed to my "deposit" with them, it looks like a pure 4000 ZAR confiscation. I am in what currently seems like a cycle of indentured servitude with them. They say my outstanding balance with them is 10946 ZAR, 10515 is due on the 21st. Yet if it was not for their 8000 ZAR "financial charges/ad-hoc security deposits" I would have had to pay a very reasonable 2515 ZAR.

Now as far as I can gather my municipality, the shockingly run Tshwane municipal council, has reached the point of such desperation in it's finances that it is resorting to this kind of theft and confiscation. They are the monopoly providers of water and lights in my city and their equally bad sister municipalities and the national power company Eskom terrorize the most of the rest of the country. My choices are go without water and lights, pay, or go to their offices for an entire day and attempt to find a helpful bureaucrat to somehow reverse the situation. Previous attempts to work with the bureaucrazzzzy have not been successful and seems to have a sort of gravity about it as it keeps pulling you back. What is not an option is to realize the shocking level of unfairness and simply take the knock once and change service provider.

It has reached the point where I'm considering liquidating some of the hedges I have in place against the ever worsening global monetary system simply to ensure a reliable, affordable power supply to my house.

Now as I said this is getting ?worse? since the municipality has been mismanaged for some time and a year or two ago faced having their water contract ended and their power contract. In a totally fair system they would simply fold. But thanks to higher levels of government, provincial and national, that might still be a very long way off. Even if they cannot effectively fund themselves, they can still count on the good graces of the Gauteng province and/or National Treasury to give them a firm talking to and then a nice cheque to hold them over till they can "sort it out". Our government in turn is running a 117 billion deficit so if they can't make things work either, they can always go to intra-national finance and the local reserve bank to hold them over. They can always extort the money to pay back the loans from whoever seems to have it.

I see the chinq in their armour, if they as a whole could not continue ad-infinitum with even small 10% overruns it would al come to a screeching and much needed halt. The reserve bank would close down and its prime down town office space would be rented out by new building owners or converted to low cost housing. The government could loan money, but the people they loan from would want it back and would not be able or willing to keep extending the loan by another 10% for the rest of eternity. They would first pass this discipline on to the receiver of revenue and initially attempt to collect the shortfall from the populace. But they will here discover that money really does not grow on trees and if you tax people directly, they see what government really cost, then they get unhappy with it much, much faster. Having a far smaller budget, national government would be forced to focus on the majors and would not be willing and now completely unable to help provincial or local governments that do not perform.

As for the monopolies in electricity and water; While charging the population "internationally competitive" rates they have been funded by national government through taxation and deficits to cover the shortfalls, or simply left dysfunctional to "prevent inflation". In a system where the amount of money is known and cannot willy nilly be loaned into existence (by them or their higher ups) they would either have to face the reality that their central management paradigm does not work and relax it to some extent or explain to an angry populace why they have ceased functioning.

So please, if feel for me help me, donate me some bitcoin here; 1F5Fr2rBU6iJH9pQf4d3eLR9F7GgT1e1fD
But if you feel I'm a bit arrogant for asking, but you agree with my logic, then do me an even bigger favour and build out the Bitcoin economy;
  • Get people on board, rant to your friends about it.
  • Buy a mining machine and help further secure the network, they double as great gaming machines I hear ",
  • If that's not your speed offer your services online and be willing to be paid in bitcoin, even if it's only a small fraction of your activity.
  • Build something and trade it for a bitcoin with one of your friends just for fun.
  • Set up a local exchange if you can. Coin for cash maybe if you won't get arrested.
  • Add some code to a bitcoin related project.
  • Lobby your favourite charity / organization to accept bitcoins as payment.
  • Donate to an existing charity.
  • Have a little bourbon with breakfast and live as though you were brave and unafraid
244  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: What assumptions are people using to justify adding mining rigs? on: June 04, 2011, 06:58:21 AM
Is this actively being discussed in the security related parts of the forum?
245  Bitcoin / Mining / 6990 rig setup help (b) on: June 03, 2011, 07:33:22 PM
I have a 1200W CoolerMaster gold. This thing emits enough power to run support hardware and 3x6990s (Club 3Ds). Problem is the cables do not match with the graphics hardware PCI-e connectors. The PSU has 4xPCI-e 6+2 connectors and 2xPCI-e 6 connectors. The cards have 2xPCI-e 6+2 connectors each. So now I can power 2 cards, but not the 3rd one...

Does anyone know whether the cards can run on one PCI-e 6+2 connector and one PCI-e 6 connector like normal cards seem to?
246  Bitcoin / Mining / 6990 rig setup help (a) on: June 03, 2011, 07:21:53 PM
Hi gentlefolk,

Could someone please tell me which driver/sdk combo works best with the 6990 under Windows 7 - 64bit?
Could someone please tell me which driver/sdk combo works best with the linux?

PS this is question one (and two) of several
247  Bitcoin / Mining / Google: ati sdk 2.4 on: June 03, 2011, 07:15:37 PM
Type the following into Google and look at number 1 Cheesy

ati sdk 2.4
248  Economy / Economics / Re: we just hit 10 USD on: June 03, 2011, 09:26:43 AM
That's an incredible idea, how does someone contract the Venezuelan treasury?
249  Economy / Economics / Re: Hyperinflationary collapse report on: June 03, 2011, 07:49:04 AM
@interfect, lol
250  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: What assumptions are people using to justify adding mining rigs? on: June 03, 2011, 06:00:59 AM
I want Bitcoins and I want to help secure and process Bitcoin transactions. I assume others will exchange Bitcoins with me in the future. I justify this with the fact that I don't like other people to control my currency and I assume there are others like me.

Bingo.  The goal here is to participate in the revolution.

Shall I drop $4k into a top-of-the-line tri-GPU monster, without any guarantees of return?  You sure-as-hell bet I will!

With WikiLeaks busy leaking, DarkNets in production, and NameCoin/BitCoin all working together to revolutionize and free the world's communications and monetary systems, a couple of high-end gaming computers is the *least* I can contribute.

Oh, and, there's still a chance for profit, too!  Win/Win.

Amandla!
251  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: What assumptions are people using to justify adding mining rigs? on: June 03, 2011, 05:45:35 AM
That's disturbing, all the hashing power inuse today can be
bought for only 2 to 8 million and a fake pool could have us all working for the attacker? So how can we secure the pools? Maybe open-source pooling software of some sort?
252  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: What assumptions are people using to justify adding mining rigs? on: June 02, 2011, 09:26:43 PM
We've stumbled upon something far more interesting than a bet. Why on earth would you entertain the validity of forbidding alternative currency as a 'non-stupid' law?

How about making the bet that BTC is worth it's prebreak price six months after a dollar break? So of its illegal tomorrow it's worth $10 dollars again by Jan 2012, as calculated converting from BTC to trading currency to USD.
253  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: What assumptions are people using to justify adding mining rigs? on: June 02, 2011, 08:36:41 PM
LOL, I meant BETTING is illegal.

Let's make it something like falls to x and recovers to 5x within 4 weeks then? Where x is something real darn small.

Where I live the investigators are mostly concerned with violent crime.

Again, is your regard for the law based on moral concerns or repercussion concerns?
254  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: What assumptions are people using to justify adding mining rigs? on: June 02, 2011, 07:04:14 PM
Well we would know who they are, they are already on this list http://www.top500.org/ Wink

Sorry to sound sarcastic but even if they knock down the 2 biggest groups they would not practically be able to overcome the remainder of the network.
255  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: Custom made GPU miners on: June 02, 2011, 06:59:58 PM
Not particularly profitable for anyone to build just for mining.  The most powerful mining card the 5870 is fabricated on a 40nm process. 40 NANO-meters. Think about that scale and what it implies as to the difficulty of designing and creating a working piece of technology. There is a reason there are literally only 2 gaming GPU manufacturers out there, cost is prohibitive. The only current alternative is FPGA or some other form of ASIC, which still represents thousands of dollars of investment into silicon for calculation power far inferior to gaming GPUs, and still has no code base to support it.

There may be 10 or 20 thousand hardcore miners? I'm guessing that just contracting a fab plant alone would cost more money than all of them would be able to scrape together.

Not to mention that it wouldn't really be profitable for miners either, well, perhaps the few larger groups who could afford such a project (which would further squeeze out the small fry who didn't / couldn't get on board). Higher hashing power does not increase block rate generation, it merely makes it harder to generate.

I was referring to the folks who build the cards not the GPUs. There are several makers of graphics cards. The expertise is still high but much lower than producing nm ICs.
256  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: What assumptions are people using to justify adding mining rigs? on: June 02, 2011, 06:54:35 PM
Currently, there are about 5-6 pools who mine around 75% of the whole Bitcoins. If you target those pools with DDoS attacks, you can make them unstable, failing, etc. The result would be 4 times slower Bitcoin network.

Sure, new pools may show up. It will take some time, though. And they can be targeted, too.

Actually, I think that the above is already being performed by SOMEONE.


So how does that affect the safety or security of BTC?
257  Bitcoin / Mining / Custom made GPU miners on: June 02, 2011, 06:42:18 PM
Here's an idea.

How about we pitch one of the smaller manufacturers of graphics cards to build a cool, power efficient, low memory multi-GPU card?

It won't be profitable for ATI to target a niche market, but it will be for a small graphics card maker.
258  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: What assumptions are people using to justify adding mining rigs? on: June 02, 2011, 06:37:45 PM
PS to my knowledge wagers are only legal in Arizona in the USA. So you are already breaking the law by betting aren't you?
259  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: What assumptions are people using to justify adding mining rigs? on: June 02, 2011, 06:36:19 PM
The replacement exchange will need to some time to recover from the loss of the US market.

Can I modify? If the price on whatever the prominent exchange is, is not prominently trending up within 2 months of losing the USD link then I lose. I do however win if it falls to 0 first but recovers to a readable, upwards trending price within the 2month period.
Can we define upwards trend as higher than 2 weeks before the end of the 2 months?

On payment, are you suggesting that because you are law abiding or because you fear you will get caught?
260  Bitcoin / Mining / Re: What assumptions are people using to justify adding mining rigs? on: June 02, 2011, 06:13:04 PM
  • The Dwolla/MtGox BTC <--> $$$ link breaks, perhaps due to pressure from bank regulators in response to Paypal or VC/MC lobbyists.
All of these scenarios would cause a crash in BTC values.  I guess you can argue they are unlikely - at least the first two seen quite plausible to me.
True, but if this happens quadruple your mining equipment as fast as you can. Some other jurisdiction will pick it up.
If it is no longer convenient to exchange bitcoins for USD you will see a major portion of the bitcoin economy go away. This is true until the bitcoin network becomes self sufficient (i.e. one can efficiently exchange bitcoins for a significant portion of the things one needs).  If a major chunk of the bitcoin economy goes away, the bitcoin economy shrinks and the bitcoins become worth less.

I'll bet you a bitcoin that if the Dwolla/MtGox link goes down, bitcoin exchange rates will drop in pretty much every other currency the following week.  If you don't like that bet, propose an alternative bet and put your money where your mouth is Smiley

Almost everyone who owns Bitcoins today, will still own them if the US declares it illegal or closes MtGox. They will not want their investment to become worthless, even if they are in the US. They will now effectively have a secret offshore bank account. There will be massive incentive to set up a functional exchange someplace more free, like Switzerland, Lichtenstein, Hong Kong, Singapore, Chile, you name it. Amir Taaki is involved in setting up opensource exchanges to make it easy for countries to get going changing local currency for BTC.

I agree that for a while (a short while) you will not be able to price BTC. After that business will resume, perhaps with the initial exclusion of new clients from the US, but at the same exponential rate as it is now.

Specify the bet a bit more and I'll consider it Smiley



Pages: « 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 [13] 14 15 16 17 18 19 »
Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!